If Bengals Pick Late, Trade Down

[TecmoBengals]

(01-25-2022, 07:06 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Not gonna lie. I can't help but think about Jameson Williams falling into our lap late in the first.

Nobody in the NFL would be happy about the Bengals adding another dynamic weapon to their offense.

He had two kick return TDs this year on minimal attempts. I would imagine he could also return punts. He also played on kick coverage...

Take him as the BPA and call him our special teams ace. And guess who loves shotgun 5 wide?

I brought this up in one of the other threads. He's been identified as a top draft pick, so if his injury results him in falling to pick 29+ it potentially would be amazing value. I don't think WR is an immediate need at all, it's a team strength. Buuuuuut, it sure would be hard to pass on a guy who could go top 10 - 12 in the draft.

Such a move must be first be accompanied by beefing up the OL in free agency.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-26-2022, 10:09 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I brought this up in one of the other threads. He's been identified as a top draft pick, so if his injury results him in falling to pick 29+ it potentially would be amazing value. I don't think WR is an immediate need at all, it's a team strength. Buuuuuut, it sure would be hard to pass on a guy who could go top 10 - 12 in the draft.

Such a move must be first be accompanied by beefing up the OL in free agency.

Not only OL, but defense as well.

Bengals have a few big impact players set to hit FA:
Bates
Ogunjobi
Hill
Spain
Reiff
Uzomah

RG is also the weakest link on the OL right now.

It's going to be difficult (although not impossible) to fill all that with solid-or-better FAs with the cap space the Bengals have.

If the Bengals can get all their starters set in FA, I'd be more ok with getting another WR if he's head and shoulders BPA.
However, I'd have a strong feeling that WR wouldn't get many offensive snaps barring injury for a year or two due to Chase, Higgins, and Boyd being in front of him.

[TecmoBengals]

(01-26-2022, 11:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Not only OL, but defense as well.

Bengals have a few big impact players set to hit FA:
Bates
Ogunjobi
Hill
Spain
Reiff
Uzomah

RG is also the weakest link on the OL right now.

It's going to be difficult (although not impossible) to fill all that with solid-or-better FAs with the cap space the Bengals have.

If the Bengals can get all their starters set in FA, I'd be more ok with getting another WR if he's head and shoulders BPA.
However, I'd have a strong feeling that WR wouldn't get many offensive snaps barring injury for a year or two due to Chase, Higgins, and Boyd being in front of him.

 
As always, an insightful look at roster building. I'm still focused on the playoff and Super Bowl run, but I do think this offseason is going to be fun to follow.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-26-2022, 12:12 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote:  
As always, an insightful look at roster building. I'm still focused on the playoff and Super Bowl run, but I do think this offseason is going to be fun to follow.

I definitely think between FA and the first 2-3 rounds of the draft, the Bengals should be able to upgrade their starting positions.
They can then use remaining cap and later draft picks to try to upgrade the depth.

I haven't been this excited about the postseason and upcoming draft in a long time.

[J24]

(01-25-2022, 06:04 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2022-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-kenny-pickett-malik-willis-among-3-qbs


That’s Daniel Jeremiah’s first mock draft. You can look to see who would be left on the board.

If the Jaguars offered you their #33 pick and this year’s fourth round pick would you trade back in this scenario and who would you pick at #33? And what might you do with the extra fourth round pick?

I would be shocked if he landed at 29 but to answer the question. No I would not trade the pick if he Linderbaum  is available.

(01-26-2022, 11:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Not only OL, but defense as well.

Bengals have a few big impact players set to hit FA:
Bates
Ogunjobi
Hill
Spain
Reiff
Uzomah

RG is also the weakest link on the OL right now.

It's going to be difficult (although not impossible) to fill all that with solid-or-better FAs with the cap space the Bengals have.

If the Bengals can get all their starters set in FA, I'd be more ok with getting another WR if he's head and shoulders BPA.
However, I'd have a strong feeling that WR wouldn't get many offensive snaps barring injury for a year or two due to Chase, Higgins, and Boyd being in front of him.

(01-26-2022, 03:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I definitely think between FA and the first 2-3 rounds of the draft, the Bengals should be able to upgrade their starting positions.
They can then use remaining cap and later draft picks to try to upgrade the depth.

I haven't been this excited about the postseason and upcoming draft in a long time.

It's important to keep in mind that the Bengals have young in house Talents that they like to start at RG with Carmen, Smith, and Odenji. 

I would expect them to sign all of those guys you mentioned except for either Hill or Ogunjobi. None of those should be terribly expensive outside of Bates.

C and CB to me are the biggest concerns on the roster right now.

I agree with your assessment though it's a good time to be a Bengals fan.

[*Synric*]

I think people will be disappointed if they think the Bengals are gonna go all in for Free Agent Offensive Line.

I expect them to continue to add veterans to the defense and draft/develop their offense. That's been the MO for the front office over the last 2 seasons.... and its working.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-27-2022, 06:49 PM)Synric Wrote: I think people will be disappointed if they think the Bengals are gonna go all in for Free Agent Offensive Line.

I expect them to continue to add veterans to the defense and draft/develop their offense. That's been the MO for the front office over the last 2 seasons.... and its working.

Kind of.

It worked in getting the defense up to speed, but it failed miserably in getting the line in shape.

I think the front office built that way because of the needs of the team.  I think that with most of the roster issues solved, they will focus on bringing in solid/younger O-linemen.  I don't expect them to go out and sign a guy for $15 million.

Drafting in the last 4 picks of the first round, you can't expect to have a player come in and immediately take a job.  This offseason is way too important to roll the dice on the 5-6 OT off the board or hope and pray that one of the IOL guys can come in and play at a high level.

I fully expect them to address the O-line in FA.  There's no excuse not to.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2022, 06:14 PM)J24 Wrote: I would be shocked if he landed at 29 but to answer the question. No I would not trade the pick if he Linderbaum  is available.


It's important to keep in mind that the Bengals have young in house Talents that they like to start at RG with Carmen, Smith, and Odenji. 

I would expect them to sign all of those guys you mentioned except for either Hill or Ogunjobi. None of those should be terribly expensive outside of Bates.

C and CB to me are the biggest concerns on the roster right now.

I agree with your assessment though it's a good time to be a Bengals fan.

I get that they might like Carman, Smith, and Adeniji, but that doesn't mean the fans are confident in them.
Fans want every position filled with a player they are confident will be solid-or-better. They worry when there's an incumbent that is below average, even if they are young and growing. You're talking about "hope" vs "proof" in regards to them being a good starter.

You shouldn't be as worried about C. Hopkins is back to being one of the top 3 on the OL, at least in regard to pass protection.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2022, 06:49 PM)Synric Wrote: I think people will be disappointed if they think the Bengals are gonna go all in for Free Agent Offensive Line.

I expect them to continue to add veterans to the defense and draft/develop their offense. That's been the MO for the front office over the last 2 seasons.... and its working.

That's the problem.
If you mock a "realistic" FA based on Bengal trends, you'll get slammed for not doing enough to try to upgrade the clear weakness on the offense.
If you mock a lot of offensive outside FAs, you'll get criticized saying it's not realistic to what the Bengals will do.

[Whatever]

(01-27-2022, 06:49 PM)Synric Wrote: I think people will be disappointed if they think the Bengals are gonna go all in for Free Agent Offensive Line.

I expect them to continue to add veterans to the defense and draft/develop their offense. That's been the MO for the front office over the last 2 seasons.... and its working.

Very hard to say.  We've never been this close to the SB in the MB era.  

I would tend to think that they will make a big push for an OT because it's a very strong FA T class and there's a reason they only signed Reiff for a year as a stopgap.  

[Hammerstripes]

(01-28-2022, 12:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's the problem.
If you mock a "realistic" FA based on Bengal trends, you'll get slammed for not doing enough to try to upgrade the clear weakness on the offense.
If you mock a lot of offensive outside FAs, you'll get criticized saying it's not realistic to what the Bengals will do.

Depends.  The Bengals do a pretty good job of replacing guys.  The lost Lawson and immediately signed a high priced Hendrickson to replace him.

I'm somewhat glad that we've seen the number of sacks here in the preseason as it should signal to MB and the front office that the interior line remains a huge need.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-28-2022, 05:02 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Depends.  The Bengals do a pretty good job of replacing guys.  The lost Lawson and immediately signed a high priced Hendrickson to replace him.

I'm somewhat glad that we've seen the number of sacks here in the preseason as it should signal to MB and the front office that the interior line remains a huge need.

What'd they do to address the OL though?
Signed a backup-level player in XSF to be a starter.
He's been hurt nearly the entire 2 years and just meh when playing.
They signed a clear short-term rental in Riley Reiff who hadn't even been that great this year, just the best option.
He's expected to void his 2nd year, potentially putting the Bengals back on the search for a new RT.
There isn't a single player on OL making $10+ mill APY, which is the going rate for basically every upper-tier player at every position on the OL.

Hopefully this year the Bengals are willing to spend for some better FA talent on offense, even if it means using some drafted talent to contribute more to the defense.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-28-2022, 05:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What'd they do to address the OL though?
Signed a backup-level player in XSF to be a starter.
He's been hurt nearly the entire 2 years and just meh when playing.
They signed a clear short-term rental in Riley Reiff who hadn't even been that great this year, just the best option.
He's expected to void his 2nd year, potentially putting the Bengals back on the search for a new RT.
There isn't a single player on OL making $10+ mill APY, which is the going rate for basically every upper-tier player at every position on the OL.

Hopefully this year the Bengals are willing to spend for some better FA talent on offense, even if it means using some drafted talent to contribute more to the defense.

Reiff, XSF., Carman, Smith  I think both XSF and Reiff would have started had they been healthy and they would have been average.

I think they miscalculated on a couple things and the line was one.  I think this year they go out and fix what they missed last year. 

I'm hoping to see this year's version of Awuzie with an OG (young guy, under the radar) and also hoping that we get an established vet that want to come and stabilize the line for a run at a Super Bowl.  Both those types can be had for under $10 million per.  I also think they invest in the O-line during the draft and continue to bring in young talent.  I also think they move Carman out to RT and hope he develops enough to play there long term

[*ochocincos*]

(01-28-2022, 05:21 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Reiff, XSF., Carman, Smith  I think both XSF and Reiff would have started had they been healthy and they would have been average.

I think they miscalculated on a couple things and the line was one.  I think this year they go out and fix what they missed last year. 

I'm hoping to see this year's version of Awuzie with an OG (young guy, under the radar) and also hoping that we get an established vet that want to come and stabilize the line for a run at a Super Bowl.  Both those types can be had for under $10 million per.  I also think they invest in the O-line during the draft and continue to bring in young talent.  I also think they move Carman out to RT and hope he develops enough to play there long term

Carman was clearly (or should have been clear) a project if being put at RG. He'd played LT his whole damn college career.
Smith also was an OT in college. Should have been no expectation of him being anything more than a backup this year.

XSF's PFF ratings as a Bengal:
2020 (293 snaps) - 59.1 overall, 74.8 pass block (good), 52.1 run block (poor)
2021 (124 snaps) - 50.0 overall, 52.0 pass block (poor), 49.0 run block (poor)

He hasn't been "good" overall since 2016 when he was a Texan.

Reiff was ok but like I said, he was basically signed for just one year. He was a rental. You potentially have to look for another RT now.

I do think they can find some OL who can be above average and cost less than $10 mill APY, but they have to hit on those guys.
And depending on the player, fans might not have that same confidence until they see it on the field.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-28-2022, 05:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Carman was clearly (or should have been clear) a project if being put at RG. He'd played LT his whole damn college career.
Smith also was an OT in college. Should have been no expectation of him being anything more than a backup this year.

XSF's PFF ratings as a Bengal:
2020 (293 snaps) - 59.1 overall, 74.8 pass block (good), 52.1 run block (poor)
2021 (124 snaps) - 50.0 overall, 52.0 pass block (poor), 49.0 run block (poor)

He hasn't been "good" overall since 2016 when he was a Texan.

Reiff was ok but like I said, he was basically signed for just one year. He was a rental. You potentially have to look for another RT now.

I do think they can find some OL who can be above average and cost less than $10 mill APY, but they have to hit on those guys.
And depending on the player, fans might not have that same confidence until they see it on the field.

Completely agree on Carman.  I was just as pissed about that pick as I was about the Sample pick in round 2 a few years ago.  I think they looked at XSF holding down the spot until one of those guys was ready.  It didn't work that way.  That's why I was disappointed when they left $14 million on the table and didn't sign a vet OG<

[*ochocincos*]

(01-28-2022, 05:47 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Completely agree on Carman.  I was just as pissed about that pick as I was about the Sample pick in round 2 a few years ago.  I think they looked at XSF holding down the spot until one of those guys was ready.  It didn't work that way.  That's why I was disappointed when they left $14 million on the table and didn't sign a vet OG<

I liked the Carman pick, but I didn't think he'd be ready as a rookie. They took a gamble on XSF being healthy and playing well, both risky gambles to make.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-27-2022, 07:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Kind of.

It worked in getting the defense up to speed, but it failed miserably in getting the line in shape.

I think the front office built that way because of the needs of the team.  I think that with most of the roster issues solved, they will focus on bringing in solid/younger O-linemen.  I don't expect them to go out and sign a guy for $15 million.

Drafting in the last 4 picks of the first round, you can't expect to have a player come in and immediately take a job.  This offseason is way too important to roll the dice on the 5-6 OT off the board or hope and pray that one of the IOL guys can come in and play at a high level.

I fully expect them to address the O-line in FA.  There's no excuse not to.

I completely agree, we need proven OL more than anything to free up the Draft. We have the dough for it.

Protect Burrow and get an OL that can run block and look out!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-28-2022, 05:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I liked the Carman pick, but I didn't think he'd be ready as a rookie. They took a gamble on XSF being healthy and playing well, both risky gambles to make.

I loved the Carman pick but it is a tough move from LT to RG in your rookie year. I also think he should be getting a lot more
snaps with how Adeniji has been playing. Carman is clearly a more physical RG or LG and can be a road grader in the run game
unlike Adeniji. I know Carman has some more penalties but he has been the better OL this season IMO and PFF's.

D'Ante Smith could also grow into a good OL but we need some proven vet FA's. A top Center and a top RT.

Brian Allen and Morgan Moses sound good to me as Synric has been saying.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-28-2022, 06:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I loved the Carman pick but it is a tough move from LT to RG in your rookie year. I also think he should be getting a lot more
snaps with how Adeniji has been playing. Carman is clearly a more physical RG or LG and can be a road grader in the run game
unlike Adeniji. I know Carman has some more penalties but he has been the better OL this season IMO and PFF's.

D'Ante Smith could also grow into a good OL but we need some proven vet FA's. A top Center and a top RT.

Brian Allen and Morgan Moses sound good to me as Synric has been saying.

Brian Allen would make a lot of sense, as he has a connection to Taylor from when Taylor was with the Rams.
Allen also plays in the same type of scheme.
With that said, Allen isn't the greatest pass protector. Hopkins is better in that area.

Morgan Moses would be a great addition, but as I think Synric pointed out in another thread, the Jets might look to sign him to an extension to make him and Fant their starting OT tandem. That might make Becton expendable though. If so, could be worth a 2nd round pick or so.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-28-2022, 06:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Brian Allen would make a lot of sense, as he has a connection to Taylor from when Taylor was with the Rams.
Allen also plays in the same type of scheme.
With that said, Allen isn't the greatest pass protector. Hopkins is better in that area.

Morgan Moses would be a great addition, but as I think Synric pointed out in another thread, the Jets might look to sign him to an extension to make him and Fant their starting OT tandem. That might make Becton expendable though. If so, could be worth a 2nd round pick or so.

I like the Becton thought as well if the Jets extend Moses. We will see how it plays out.

True on Allen's pass protection, not the greatest but he is ten times the run blocker Hopkins is.