If I were in charge of the Bengals today

[*ochocincos*]

(02-14-2022, 09:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think my first order of business would have been to call Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack in for all day meetings,

For Pollack I would literally challenge him to explain why he should be retained on staff given the line performance. I'm not going in pre-decided to can him but if the answers are not good ones he's gone right then and there. After that it would be a review of all prospective Free Agents to start the process of identifying targets NOT BASED ON MONEY but based on who they believe will best fit the system and do it well.

For Taylor I would blast him good over doing absolutely nothing to defang the pass rush. One screen? No rollouts? No RPO concepts? Then he gets his extension but also gets removed from play calling and the job search starts for a REAL offensive coordinator.

Then I personally call Burrow and tell him not to worry - the blocking was unacceptable and no matter what it takes the line is getting fixed.

That's Day One.

Weren't there more screens than just one?
I thought there were.
Mixon had 5 receptions for a total of one yard. Pretty much all of those receptions wouldn't have come on anything other than a screen.
Evans' one reception was just for three yards. I thought that was a screen too but maybe it was a different short route, can't remember.
The only thing I remember for Evans was that missed pass.

I think the opposing defense just did a really good job of shutting down Taylor's offense in the 2nd half.

Pollack's strength in coaching is clearly the run game.
The run game was going mostly smooth too, but leaning on Perine at the end just wasn't a good idea. He just doesn't run with power like you would think of a 240 lb RB.

[*Awful Llama*]

(02-15-2022, 01:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Two words: prima nocta.

I'm guessing that's exactly why Mike kept the team for so long.  

[jj22]

(02-15-2022, 02:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Carman began the season recovering from back surgery and ended the season dealing with back pain. How much do you expect a rookie to develop in 10 months while transitioning to a new position when limited by injury?

And the other rookies and 2nd/3rd year players..... Carman wasn't the only pick (Hill,Smith). We also had F.Johnson, and I.Prince as young returning players. Adeniji a 2nd year player.

None developed.

That is pretty telling all those swings and all could be misses.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-15-2022, 01:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Two words: prima nocta.

Isn't that one of the spells from Final Fantasy?

[Joelist]

(02-15-2022, 02:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Weren't there more screens than just one?
I thought there were.
Mixon had 5 receptions for a total of one yard. Pretty much all of those receptions wouldn't have come on anything other than a screen.
Evans' one reception was just for three yards. I thought that was a screen too but maybe it was a different short route, can't remember.
The only thing I remember for Evans was that missed pass.

I think the opposing defense just did a really good job of shutting down Taylor's offense in the 2nd half.

Pollack's strength in coaching is clearly the run game.
The run game was going mostly smooth too, but leaning on Perine at the end just wasn't a good idea. He just doesn't run with power like you would think of a 240 lb RB.

I was shocked too. ONE SCREEN all game; against the worst defense in the NFL versus the screen. The commentary is out there, asking why the Bengals essentially did none of the thing offenses do to cause a pass rush to hesitate. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-15-2022, 02:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: Sure.

Typically someone in the room progresses. Someone in a full season under the Assistant coaches tutelage. 

The DL improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Our WR improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Eli Apple improved under a new CB coach, and last year Alexander had a great year under the first year of the CB coach as did Phillips.
Turner got the best out of Fred freakin Johnson in his first year as an assistant coach.
In Gorden's first year, he got a good year out of Pratt and got the young Lb's up to speed.

The D line improved with Hendrickson, Ogunjobi, Hill, and the return of a healthy Reader?

The WRs improved with a Pro Browl, 2nd team All Pro, NFL Rookie of the year? In addition to two former 2nd round draft picks.

It’s amazing what those position coaches were able to do with what they had to work with.

[jj22]

Ogubjobi who had to take a 1 year prove it deal?
Hill who wasn't thought more of then a trade chip for Price?
A rookie who sat out a year and was deemed a bust after preseason for the dropsies?...
Ok 2 2nd round picks instead of 1.

These coaches did work wonders. Like I said you hope to see some development somewhere in each position groups room to point to.

How else do you measure the job Assistant coaches have done.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2022, 09:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think my first order of business would have been to call Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack in for all day meetings,

For Pollack I would literally challenge him to explain why he should be retained on staff given the line performance. I'm not going in pre-decided to can him but if the answers are not good ones he's gone right then and there. After that it would be a review of all prospective Free Agents to start the process of identifying targets NOT BASED ON MONEY but based on who they believe will best fit the system and do it well.

For Taylor I would blast him good over doing absolutely nothing to defang the pass rush. One screen? No rollouts? No RPO concepts? Then he gets his extension but also gets removed from play calling and the job search starts for a REAL offensive coordinator.

Then I personally call Burrow and tell him not to worry - the blocking was unacceptable and no matter what it takes the line is getting fixed.

That's Day One.

Well, I don't know for sure if that is the way to go about it. But there are lots of factors in why these coaches did what they 
did and agree it was the complete wrong game plan. Starting Adeniji against a DL like that that uses lots of stunts was just 
stupid, if that is Pollack's call it was definitely the wrong one. Also to not call Screens, rollouts or RPO's was stupid as well.

I think we our Champs if we ran some rollouts in this game. Burrow also needs to learn that those empty sets hurt the team
against a Defense like that. You need a RB back there chipping and helping out in pass protection.

Lou should have a talking to on the Kupp play that gave the Rams the lead. You need to double Kupp in that situation and 
make someone else beat you. Spy him with either Hilton or a Safety. Everyone knew where the ball was going, inexcusable.

[jj22]

But let's look back on 2018.

Did any of these players develop under Pollack? (you could say Hopkins I guess).

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/3/9/18216278/2018-bengals-position-review-offensive-line

So it's not just a years worth of wondering who has developed under him....

The elephant in the room (to continue with that theme) is no one has really developed under Pollack. And that is sad to say given the need to improve the line and get the right coach in.

[Joelist]

(02-15-2022, 02:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, I don't know for sure if that is the way to go about it. But there are lots of factors in why these coaches did what they 
did and agree it was the complete wrong game plan. Starting Adeniji against a DL like that that uses lots of stunts was just 
stupid, if that is Pollack's call it was definitely the wrong one. Also to not call Screens, rollouts or RPO's was stupid as well.

I think we our Champs if we ran some rollouts in this game. Burrow also needs to learn that those empty sets hurt the team
against a Defense like that. You need a RB back there chipping and helping out in pass protection.

Lou should have a talking to on the Kupp play that gave the Rams the lead. You need to double Kupp in that situation and 
make someone else beat you. Spy him with either Hilton or a Safety. Everyone knew where the ball was going, inexcusable.

I already posted that I should have chilled out before posting this - the approach is too harsh. I was wrong. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-15-2022, 02:48 PM)Joelist Wrote: I was shocked too. ONE SCREEN all game; against the worst defense in the NFL versus the screen. The commentary is out there, asking why the Bengals essentially did none of the thing offenses do to cause a pass rush to hesitate. 

I'm pretty sure there were more than just one screen all game, it just was telegraphed and contained by the defense.

I'd have to go back and try to rewatch the game, but from what I remember, the Rams attacked the LOS and focused on rushing the passer a lot.
That prevented deeper passes, allowing the secondary and LBs to come downhill and stifle any short routes quickly.
A hobbled Uzomah and worthless Sample reduced the underneath success that the Bengals could have.

[Joelist]

(02-15-2022, 02:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm pretty sure there were more than just one screen all game, it just was telegraphed and contained by the defense.

I'd have to go back and try to rewatch the game, but from what I remember, the Rams attacked the LOS and focused on rushing the passer a lot.
That prevented deeper passes, allowing the secondary and LBs to come downhill and stifle any short routes quickly.
A hobbled Uzomah and worthless Sample reduced the underneath success that the Bengals could have.

I'm not alone in noting this. NFL Network made the same observation. They even showed the one screen - which worked. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-15-2022, 02:56 PM)Joelist Wrote: I already posted that I should have chilled out before posting this - the approach is too harsh. I was wrong. 

Way to admit you were wrong Joelist. I admire this.

One thing I know is the Coaches should be kicking themselves for that gameplan. Probably no need to rub it in. They know.

Starting Adeniji, not using roll outs, screens, RPO's against THAT Defense which struggles in all these areas.

We were running the ball well against them and went away from it.

With all these factors it is a amazing we could of won it if we just made one play. Knock that ball down on that fade or even
better pick it off and go the other way for a TD and the game is over and we win even with a poor gameplan.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-15-2022, 02:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: And the other rookies and 2nd/3rd year players..... Carman wasn't the only pick (Hill,Smith). We also had F.Johnson, and I.Prince as young returning players. Adeniji a 2nd year player.

None developed.

That is pretty telling all those swings and all could be misses.

You expected an undersized, developmental 4th round rookie OT with < 2 years starting experience at LT at the collegiate level to unseat Williams or Reiff? Or a 6th round rookie to start over Hopkins?

F. Johnson is an UDFA. There is about a 70% he wouldn’t even make an NFL roster.

As an Ohio State fan, whomever signed Prince should be fired. I would want him playing for ANY AFCN team, but the Bengals.

Adeniji is a 6th round OT playing out of position at RG whose ceiling is probably swing tackle in case of emergency.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-15-2022, 02:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: I'm not alone in noting this. NFL Network made the same observation. They even showed the one screen - which worked. 

I haven't watched anything on football since the Super Bowl, so probably why I haven't heard about it.
I just don't want to hear anyone glorifying the Rams win.
I need time to grieve lol.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-14-2022, 11:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is also why there is no cure for cancer.

No one has yelled enough at the researchers who have failed so far.

Why can't everyone see how simple the answer is.

Do you have any idea how fast we could clear the prisons out if we just lined up all the convicts, lowered the boom and told them we weren't going to stand for that crap anymore?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-15-2022, 02:46 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Isn't that one of the spells from Final Fantasy?

Depends upon which Final Fantasy you’re playing.

[Stonyhands]

(02-15-2022, 02:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, I don't know for sure if that is the way to go about it. But there are lots of factors in why these coaches did what they 
did and agree it was the complete wrong game plan. Starting Adeniji against a DL like that that uses lots of stunts was just 
stupid, if that is Pollack's call it was definitely the wrong one. Also to not call Screens, rollouts or RPO's was stupid as well.

I think we our Champs if we ran some rollouts in this game. Burrow also needs to learn that those empty sets hurt the team
against a Defense like that. You need a RB back there chipping and helping out in pass protection.

Lou should have a talking to on the Kupp play that gave the Rams the lead. You need to double Kupp in that situation and 
make someone else beat you. Spy him with either Hilton or a Safety. Everyone knew where the ball was going, inexcusable.

It all was to be expected. The last two decades nearly all of our playoff losses were because teams came out with better game plans and executed. This was easily the most winnable game of all of our losses this season. It seems there were more than a handful of plays that if just one of them goes differently we win this game. However, most of those things were mistakes by an inexperienced coaching staff.

I had most of my kids hockey team parents over for a Super Bowl party who never really watched the Bengals play this year but we’re rooting for Burrow. Some of which are former professional hockey players/current D1 College Hockey Head Coaches…and they just could not believe some of the boneheaded things the Bengals coaches were doing. Aside from the poor officiating calls the general consensus was the Bengals coaching staff lost them the game more than the Rams won it.

This all goes back to Mike Brown’s choice to hire an inexperienced coach and the fact that they had a difficult time getting anybody to coach the defense. You’d think after years of Mike Browns selected coaches getting outcoached he would look for somebody who wouldn’t need come in and learn the ways of the NFL. But in reality all Mike wanted was a yes guy to come in and be a face while Mike ran everything behind the curtain. He absolutely deserves to come as close as you can to a Lombardi and not win it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-15-2022, 02:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ogubjobi who had to take a 1 year prove it deal?
Hill who wasn't thought more of then a trade chip for Price?
A rookie who sat out a year and was deemed a bust after preseason for the dropsies?...
Ok 2 2nd round picks instead of 1.

These coaches did work wonders. Like I said you hope to see some development somewhere in each position groups room to point to.

How else do you measure the job Assistant coaches have done.

10-7, first play off wins in a generation against the #1 seed and Patrick Mahomes’ Chiefs on the road, and a Super Bowl appearance when most outside of Cincinnati didn’t expect them to win their own division?

[THE PISTONS]

(02-15-2022, 09:42 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The line was trash before Reiff got hurt. Burrow had already been sacked 41 times in 13 games before Reiff went on IR between Week 14 and 15. 

Reiff being hurt was also a certainty to happen anyway. Guy was a 33-year-old who hadn't had a healthy season since 2015.

Reiff is way better than Prince. I don't know what to tell people. With Reiff, the weakness was at rg. Without him, it was rt and rg.

The line was never good. Maybe below average at best. But without Reiff, it went to terrible.