Who do you sign? (With salary projections)

[THE PISTONS]

Ok. So I keep reading people say, the Bengals need to go sign the best offensive lineman! No excuse not to!) Well, lots of teams need lineman which will drive prices up. PFF has a list of the Top 200 free agents, and here are the lineman with what they project the contract to be.

So who do you sign? I believe we'll have around $62 million in cap space with $8 million being rolled over. Waiving Waynes would get us another $10 million or so.

Note: Burrow is eligible for a contract extension after the 2022 season.

PFF Contract Projections
Tackles -
Terron Armstead - Three years, $60 million ($20M per year), $43.75 million total guaranteed (Plus, he's a LT where Jonah plays)
Orlando Brown - Five years, $105 million ($21M per year, $73.5 million total guaranteed)
Duane Brown - Two years, $20 million ($10M per year, $14.5 million total guaranteed) (Has played 14 years so far.)
Morgan Moses - Three years, $22.5 million ($7.5M per year, $14.5M total guaranteed)
Eric Fisher - Three years, $48 million ($16M per year, $31.25 million total guaranteed)
Trent Brown - Two years, $20 million (incentives could push it to $25 million), $15 million total guaranteed
Riley Reiff - Two years, $14 million ($7M per year), $9.25 million total guaranteed (Coming off career low pass blocking grade)
Brandon Shell - Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year), $10.25 million total guaranteed
David Quessenberry - One year, $4 million, $2.75 million total guaranteed
Dennis Kelly - One year, $1.5 million, $500K total guaranteed
Cam Robinson - Three years, $34 million ($11.33M per year), $17.75 million total guaranteed
Joseph Notebloom - One year, $4 million, $2.25 million total guaranteed
Tom Compton - One year, $1.75 million fully guaranteed
Mike Remmers - One year, $2.75 million, $2 million total guaranteed

Guards -
Brandon Scherff - Three years, $50 million ($16.67 million per year, $30 million total guaranteed) (And it lists health as a big concern.)
Laken Tomlinson - Three years, $27 million ($9M per year, $16.5 million total guaranteed)
Connor Williams - Three years, $20 million ($6.67M per year, $12.5 million total guaranteed)
James Daniels - Five years, $50 million ($10M per year, $24M total guaranteed)
Austin Corbett - Four years, $37 million ($9.25M per year, $20M total guaranteed)
Andrew Norwell - Three years, $21.75 million ($7.25M per year), $15 million total guaranteed
Alex Cappa - Four years, $37 million ($9.25M per year), $20 million total guaranteed
Trai Turner - Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year), $10 million total guaranteed
Mark Glowinski - Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year), $13 million total guaranteed
Quinton Spain - Three years, $14.25 million ($4.75M per year), $6.75 million total guaranteed
Bobby Massie - One year, $2.25 million, $1.5 million total guaranteed (Average to Below Average T)
Cornelius Lucas - Two years, $5 million ($2.5M per year), $4 million total guaranteed (Might be a good swing tackle option)
Matt Paradis - One year, $3.5 million, $1.5 million total guaranteed
Jason Peters - One year, $2.5 million fully guaranteed - 39 Years Old
Nate Solder - One year, $5 million fully guaranteed
Oday Aboushi - One year, $1.5 million
AJ Cann - One year, $3 million, $2 million total guaranteed
Ethan Pocic - Three years, $12 million ($4M per year), $5.75 million total guaranteed
Michael Schofield - One year, $1.75 million, $1 million total guaranteed

Center -
Ryan Jensen - Three years, $39 million ($13M per year, $24.25 million total guaranteed)
Ben Jones - Three years, $20 million ($6.67M per year), $12 million total guaranteed
Bradley Bozeman - Three years, $21 million ($7M per year), $10 million total guaranteed
Matt Paradis - One year, $3.5 million, $1.5 million total guaranteed
Ted Karras - Three years, $13 million ($4.33M per year), $6.25 million total guaranteed - C/G
Austin Blythe - One year, $1.125 million
Austin Reiter - One year, $1.125 million (Considered a backup C)

Bengals Free Agents
Jesse Bates - 1 Year, 12.91 million (Franchise Tag)
BJ Hill - Three years, $26.25 million ($8.75 million per year, $14.5 million total guaranteed
CJ Uzomah - Three years, $25 million ($8.33M per year), $13.25 million total guaranteed
Eli Apple - One year, $4.25 million, $2.75 million total guaranteed
Darius Phillips - One year, $1.725 million, $1 million total guaranteed
Zach Kerr - One year, $1.125 million
Brandon Allen is a free agent so we need a backup QB.
Mike Thomas and Auden Tate are unrestricted free agents.
Ogunjobi and Topou are unrestricted free agents.
Jordan Evans is an unrestricted free agent.
Huber is an unrestricted free agent.

Others I see Mentioned-
OJ Howard TE - One year, $4.125, $3.25 million total guaranteed
There are a lot of backs like Marlon Mack, Mostert, etc in the $2-2.5 million range. Sometimes less.

[jj22]

Tag Bates

James Daniel
Mark Glowinski
Orlando Brown (I still think he gets tagged tho, Armstead's injury history is too much of a gamble)
Ben Jones

Re-Sign
Tupou

That's it for FA.

Draft
CB's (2). DT(3t), SS/FS (Bell's final year, Bates on 1 year tag).

Cut Waynes
Cut Hopkins

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 12:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: Tag Bates

James Daniel
Mark Glowinski
Orlando Brown (I still think he gets tagged tho, Armstead's injury history is too much of a gamble)
Ben Jones

Re-Sign
Tupou

That's it for FA.

Draft
CB's (2). DT(3t),  SS/FS (Bell's final year, Bates on 1 year tag).

Cut Waynes
Cut Hopkins

So you spend about $57 million of the cap space in free agency.

You still need a starting TE, Punter, a backup QB, maybe starting DT or backup DT if you lose Larry O and BJ. (Depends if you want Tupou starting). Then you need a lot of depth guys.

[CanadianBengal]

I know they need a massive improvement in O-Line but I don't want them to strip the other parts of the team. This is a young deep team that should only get better. Joe needs a solid line.

I would like to see them re-sign Reif and draft OT in first round
Daniels as starting RG and back up C
Norwell as starting LG - he may be cheaper as he likely he likely wants to win for last few years.


I could live with Hopkins for one more year as he got better as year did. If you can get Jones for same money or close then do it.

I want to bring back CJ, extend Bates, at least one starting DT, a solid CB2

The defense played well last year --I don't want to enter the playoffs having to win shoot-outs every week because we gutted defense so making sure we have a decent d-line and CB's is important

I also don't want to go into the season thinking our late second rounder is a starter. If he wins the position in camp great --but we were hurt last year assuming Carmen was up to the job

[jj22]

(02-21-2022, 12:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you spend about $57 million of the cap space in free agency.

You still need a starting TE, Punter, a backup QB, maybe starting DT or backup DT if you lose Larry O and BJ. (Depends if you want Tupou starting). Then you need a lot of depth guys.

Draft and UDFA's will have to make up the back end of the depth. 

Sample can take snaps at 3t, we'll have Reader, Tupou, and Shelvin along with a draft pick at DT. 

TE - Tough decisions, but we'll have to roll with Sample, and Wilcox who they seem high on.

Did you calculate the money saved cutting Hopkins and Waynes (I can't tell).

I'm going all in on fixing the Oline. A great Offense can mask a lot of the other issues you brought up. A punter and backup QB isn't going to cost anything but late draft picks and an UDFA.

I'm not drafting more Olineman (this draft). That route hasn't worked and we still have Carman, Smith, and Hill as young players on the roster.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 12:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you spend about $57 million of the cap space in free agency.

You still need a starting TE, Punter, a backup QB, maybe starting DT or backup DT if you lose Larry O and BJ. (Depends if you want Tupou starting). Then you need a lot of depth guys.

That’s if you have equal cap hits. There are things you can do to navigate that. The cap is going to continue to go up, so pushing some money to later isn’t a bad thing. I think urgency needs to be stressed this offseason. There could be a slight lull down the road, but the window is too great not to take a chance.

[J24]

Joseph Notebloom - 3 year 27 Million

Connor Williams LG- 1 year 6.5 Million

Brian Allen C 3 year 21 Million

3T- Maurice Hurst 1 year 1.5 million- provides instant pass rush at the 3T

Kevin King 1 year 4 Million- Ok starting CB

Our guys
Bates 4 year 64 million
CJ 2 year 14 Million
Larry Ogunjobi- 1 year 8 Million
Mike Thomas WR 1 year veteran min
Brandon Allen -1 year vet min
Trey Flowers - 1 year Vet Min
All restricted free agents (including a second RD fender on Stanley Morgan)


Cuts for
Hopkins
Wayne's
Brandon Wilson
Samaji Perine


Trades
Tyler Boyd to GB for second RD pick

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 12:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: Draft and UDFA's will have to make up the back end of the depth. 

Sample can take snaps at 3t, we'll have Reader, Tupou, and Shelvin along with a draft pick at DT. 

TE - Tough decisions, but we'll have to roll with Sample, and Wilcox who they seem high on.

Did you calculate the money saved cutting Hopkins and Waynes (I can't tell).

I'm going all in on fixing the Oline. A great Offense can mask a lot of the other issues you brought up. A punter and backup QB isn't going to cost anything but late draft picks and an UDFA.

I'm not drafting more Olineman. That route hasn't worked and we still have Carman, Smith, and Hill as young players on the roster.

At TE, I like OJ Howard on a 1 year 4.5 million deal better than CJ multiyear at $8 million a year. The site basically called him a low-end TE 1...which I think is accurate. Although he can make big plays.

In your scenario, you would have some cap space left from cutting those 2.

I like some of the lineman that are $1.5 million backups. I'd like to have a veteran backup.

[Interceptor]

FA
Daniels
Jensen
Moses
Gronkowski(?)
Hoyer(?)

TAG
Bates

CUT
Hopkins
Wayne's

DRAFT
Edge, OT, CB, S, Bappe

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2022, 12:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok. So I keep reading people say, the Bengals need to go sign the best offensive lineman! No excuse not to!) Well, lots of teams need lineman which will drive prices up. PFF has a list of the Top 200 free agents, and here are the lineman with what they project the contract to be.

So who do you sign? I believe we'll have around $62 million in cap space with $8 million being rolled over. Waiving Waynes would get us another $10 million or so.

Note: Burrow is eligible for a contract extension after the 2022 season.

PFF Contract Projections
Tackles -
Terron Armstead - Three years, $60 million ($20M per year), $43.75 million total guaranteed (Plus, he's a LT where Jonah plays)
Orlando Brown - Five years, $105 million ($21M per year, $73.5 million total guaranteed)
Duane Brown - Two years, $20 million ($10M per year, $14.5 million total guaranteed) (Has played 14 years so far.)
Morgan Moses - Three years, $22.5 million ($7.5M per year, $14.5M total guaranteed)
Eric Fisher - Three years, $48 million ($16M per year, $31.25 million total guaranteed)
Trent Brown - Two years, $20 million (incentives could push it to $25 million), $15 million total guaranteed
Riley Reiff - Two years, $14 million ($7M per year), $9.25 million total guaranteed (Coming off career low pass blocking grade)
Brandon Shell - Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year), $10.25 million total guaranteed
David Quessenberry - One year, $4 million, $2.75 million total guaranteed
Dennis Kelly - One year, $1.5 million, $500K total guaranteed
Cam Robinson - Three years, $34 million ($11.33M per year), $17.75 million total guaranteed
Joseph Notebloom - One year, $4 million, $2.25 million total guaranteed
Tom Compton - One year, $1.75 million fully guaranteed
Mike Remmers - One year, $2.75 million, $2 million total guaranteed

Guards -
Brandon Scherff - Three years, $50 million ($16.67 million per year, $30 million total guaranteed) (And it lists health as a big concern.)
Laken Tomlinson - Three years, $27 million ($9M per year, $16.5 million total guaranteed)
Connor Williams - Three years, $20 million ($6.67M per year, $12.5 million total guaranteed)
James Daniels -  Five years, $50 million ($10M per year, $24M total guaranteed)
Austin Corbett - Four years, $37 million ($9.25M per year, $20M total guaranteed)
Andrew Norwell - Three years, $21.75 million ($7.25M per year), $15 million total guaranteed
Alex Cappa - Four years, $37 million ($9.25M per year), $20 million total guaranteed
Trai Turner - Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year), $10 million total guaranteed
Mark Glowinski - Three years, $18.75 million ($6.25M per year), $13 million total guaranteed
Quinton Spain - Three years, $14.25 million ($4.75M per year), $6.75 million total guaranteed
Bobby Massie - One year, $2.25 million, $1.5 million total guaranteed (Average to Below Average T)
Cornelius Lucas - Two years, $5 million ($2.5M per year), $4 million total guaranteed (Might be a good swing tackle option)
Matt Paradis - One year, $3.5 million, $1.5 million total guaranteed
Jason Peters - One year, $2.5 million fully guaranteed - 39 Years Old
Nate Solder - One year, $5 million fully guaranteed
Oday Aboushi - One year, $1.5 million
AJ Cann - One year, $3 million, $2 million total guaranteed
Ethan Pocic - Three years, $12 million ($4M per year), $5.75 million total guaranteed
Michael Schofield - One year, $1.75 million, $1 million total guaranteed

Center -
Ryan Jensen - Three years, $39 million ($13M per year, $24.25 million total guaranteed)
Ben Jones - Three years, $20 million ($6.67M per year), $12 million total guaranteed
Bradley Bozeman - Three years, $21 million ($7M per year), $10 million total guaranteed
Matt Paradis - One year, $3.5 million, $1.5 million total guaranteed
Ted Karras - Three years, $13 million ($4.33M per year), $6.25 million total guaranteed - C/G
Austin Blythe - One year, $1.125 million
Austin Reiter - One year, $1.125 million (Considered a backup C)

Bengals Free Agents
Jesse Bates - 1 Year, 12.91 million (Franchise Tag)
BJ Hill - Three years, $26.25 million ($8.75 million per year, $14.5 million total guaranteed
CJ Uzomah - Three years, $25 million ($8.33M per year), $13.25 million total guaranteed
Eli Apple - One year, $4.25 million, $2.75 million total guaranteed
Darius Phillips - One year, $1.725 million, $1 million total guaranteed
Zach Kerr - One year, $1.125 million
Brandon Allen is a free agent so we need a backup QB.
Mike Thomas and Auden Tate are unrestricted free agents.
Ogunjobi and Topou are unrestricted free agents.
Jordan Evans is an unrestricted free agent.
Huber is an unrestricted free agent.

Others I see Mentioned-
OJ Howard TE - One year, $4.125, $3.25 million total guaranteed
There are a lot of backs like Marlon Mack, Mostert, etc in the $2-2.5 million range. Sometimes less.

Per Spotrac, Bengals had $6.5 mill in cap space when they ended 2021 season.
They project a rollover of $5.3 mill (not sure why it wouldn't be the full $6.5 though).

Two OL I'm definitely doing:
Morgan Moses
James Daniels


I'd also consider Laken Tomlinson, Austin Corbett, or Andrew Norwell instead of Quinton Spain.
If Corbett, I'd put Daniels at LG and Corbett at RG.
Norwell or Tomlinson I'd put at LG.
Spain should be cheaper than them though, so I can see the Bengals wanting to keep him for continuity and cost.
He was a solid player this past year.

If the Bengals were willing to move on from Hopkins, it'd free up $6 mill, which would cover a majority (or maybe all) of a new Center's contract.
One player not mentioned in the Centers list is Brian Allen, projected $7.25 mill APY.
He's a big upgrade over Hopkins in the run game and experience in McVay's scheme, but he's not quite as good of a pass blocker compared to a healthy Hopkins.

I'm shocked to see Uzomah estimated at $8.33 mill APY. No way would I pay that for him.
Most I would give is $6 mill.
If he walks, I'd love to bring in Gronk or OJ Howard.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-21-2022, 12:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm shocked to see Uzomah estimated at $8.33 mill APY. No way would I pay that for him.
Most I would give is $6 mill.
If he walks, I'd love to bring in Gronk or OJ Howard.

Yeah, I love Uzomah’s leadership and locker room presence, but that’s a lot of money for your 5th option in an offense.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2022, 12:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I love Uzomah’s leadership and locker room presence, but that’s a lot of money for your 5th option in an offense.

I'm assuming you're getting 5th because you're comparing all the targets RBs got to all the targets TEs got?
I ask because Uzomah was 4th in targets (63), but RBs as a whole had more targets than the TEs.
TEs collectively had 83 targets.
RBs collectively had 98 targets.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-21-2022, 12:31 PM)J24 Wrote: Joseph Notebloom - 3 year 27 Million

Connor Williams LG- 1 year 6.5 Million

Brian Allen C 3 year 21 Million

3T- Maurice Hurst 1 year 1.5 million- provides instant pass rush at the 3T

Kevin King 1 year 4 Million- Ok starting CB

Our guys
Bates 4 year 64 million
CJ 2 year 14 Million
Larry Ogunjobi- 1 year 8 Million
Mike Thomas WR 1 year veteran min
Brandon Allen -1 year vet min
Trey Flowers - 1 year Vet Min
All restricted free agents (including a second RD fender on Stanley Morgan)


Cuts for
Hopkins
Wayne's
Brandon Wilson
Samaji Perine


Trades
Tyler Boyd to GB for second RD pick

7 mill a year for CJ? Are you out of your mind? 

[wcu]

They're going to have to back an armored car up to Joe Burrow's house when he gets extended in a couple of seasons. Don't think the Brown family doesn't realize that. While we should expect them to be aggressive to fix the OL, they're not going to forsake responsibly managing the salary cap and they're going to protect the bottom line of their general ledger in a few years.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 12:29 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: That’s if you have equal cap hits.  There are things you can do to navigate that.  The cap is going to continue to go up, so pushing some money to later isn’t a bad thing.  I think urgency needs to be stressed this offseason.  There could be a slight lull down the road, but the window is too great not to take a chance.

So Burrow is eligible for a new contract after this coming season. I doubt they decide to backload because of that.

Also, Higgins has 2 years on his contract.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 01:00 PM)wcu Wrote: They're going to have to back an armored car up to Joe Burrow's house when he gets extended in a couple of seasons.  Don't think the Brown family doesn't realize that.  While we should expect them to be aggressive to fix the OL, they're not going to forsake responsibly managing the salary cap and they're going to protect the bottom line of their general ledger in a few years.

Yes. Last time they were in this spot, they went way under the cap and maximized rollover.

I could see them going: 

Morgan Moses or Trent Brown
Connor Williams - Three years, $20 million ($6.67M per year, $12.5 million total guaranteed)
Then, retain Spain.

I could also seeing them signing Connor Williams, relying on Carman and letting Spain go.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-21-2022, 12:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm assuming you're getting 5th because you're comparing all the targets RBs got to all the targets TEs got?
I ask because Uzomah was 4th in targets (63), but RBs as a whole had more targets than the TEs.
TEs collectively had 83 targets.
RBs collectively had 98 targets.

No, I’m talking about the offense in general (pass and run). We have 2 absolute studs on the outside, a very good WR in the slot, and a big money RB. Uzomah is the 5th best playmaker out of that group. If we’re paying 8+ million a year I want someone with a little more upside than that (like Gronk).

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So Burrow is eligible for a new contract after this coming season. I doubt they decide to backload because of that.

Also, Higgins has 2 years on his contract.

Mahomes, hill and kelce all got extensions… and still signed thuney, traded for brown and simply overhauled their entire OL.

It can be done. It comes at a sacrifice at some point, but it would have delivered a SB this year.

Saving money for future years has got to go. I don’t think people understand we need to take advantage of this window, even if we have a slight lull (which likely has us very much as a still highly competitive team), after the extensions you mentioned.

More often than not, teams win sbs far easier on QB rookie deals than not.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 01:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, I’m talking about the offense in general (pass and run). We have 2 absolute studs on the outside, a very good WR in the slot, and a big money RB. Uzomah is the 5th best playmaker out of that group. If we’re paying 8+ million a year I want someone with a little more upside than that (like Gronk).

Speaking of this, I love Boyd. But I would flip him in a heartbeat for an an overnight average gaurd/center and then get someone like an Emmanuel sanders to man the slot. Boyd may be a luxury that this team can’t afford, if we decide to not get creative with the cap.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 01:23 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Mahomes, hill and kelce all got extensions… and still signed thuney, traded for brown and simply overhauled their entire OL.

It can be done.  It comes at a sacrifice at some point, but it would have delivered a SB this year.

Saving money for future years has got to go.   I don’t think people understand we need to take advantage of this window, even if we have a slight lull (which likely has us very much as a still highly competitive team), after the extensions you mentioned.

More often than not, teams win sbs far easier on QB rookie deals than not.

Hindsight as 20/20. I'm sure if they knew they were going to be in the SB and lose because of offensive line play that they would have upgraded.