True depth of our coaching staff will be tested

[Soonerpeace]

(03-26-2022, 12:20 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: There are games where he has failed to attack the defense’s weakness—like the bears game for instance. There are also crucial situations like in the super bowl where he calls predictable plays that get blown up. He has a tendency to run his offense no matter who he’s playing against—without changing the game plan to cater to the specific opponent’s strengths and weaknesses. Yes the oline makes it very difficult because you don’t want burrow to get killed back there, and it’s hard to muster up a run game. But the major area I think he should improve is predictability. it’s easy to tell a pass from a run by formation alone. He needs to do a better job of attacking the weakness and keeping the defense off balance. It makes it incredibly hard to defend an offense when you think they are doing one thing and they do the opposite. Also every pass play should have a shallow route like a slant or cross as a quick outlet in case of pressure.

Don’t get me wrong, we definitely improved and had a good year. Taylor showed signs of improving as a coach for sure. But there are definitely areas he can improve on. I think the oline improving and the overall talent on offense should make his job easy this year.

Burrow can improve as well and I think he will behind an improved oline. I thought this year he didn’t go through his progressions as quickly and didn’t see open receivers—sometimes staring down his hot receivers and missing the wide open back. With more time to throw and more experience I think he will be much sharper.

So the areas Taylor needs to improve on. Of course he could improve. Andy Reid lost 2 games to Zac. Mike Tomlin lost 2 games to Zac. John Harbaugh lost 2 games to Zac. Don’t doubt they had some limitations.

They scored 41 points on the Ravens TWICE. Taylor’s predictability got him two major wins with strong second halves vs KC. On the road against Tenn in the playoffs with little time called some great pass plays to set up the winning field goal. His resume is what it is. 3-1 in his first playoff ever as a head coach and OC. I’ll take it predictability or not LOL. I’ll take clutch over predictability any time. How he called when it counted was pretty darn good.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-25-2022, 02:14 PM)3wt Wrote: Just a good post overall.

The coaching staff grew as the season went along and used what they had better.  It is amazing what they (especially Joe - but coaching as well) were able to do with that offensive line.   I also like your comment on using "analytics without being stupid"  They do indeed point in the right direction

And the fact that they beat teams that they had beat before (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas and Kansas City) was extraordinary.   I think they had planned adjustments for the 2nd half which they did not reveal in the first half.   If I'm their competition I'm doing the same back.  So I feel they are going to have to have a planned adjustment to that as well as showing an ability to do better with rapid in-game adjustments.

I hope they do a great job of analyzing what they did wrong and coming up with non-obvious adjustments.

It seems that they've grown in their roles - both as being given more control over personnel and coaching logistics.   If they can really improve on the latter I think we could have a great year.

Thanks, man.  This line you wrote highlights something I keep saying about Joe Burrow and this team:  When he gets a second shot at someone.  He didn't really get that much in year 1 because of the injury, but year 2...just as he was in college, he was undefeated in rematches.  If you think about it, this upcoming year isn't really his third year, but year 2.5.  He has just shown such a dramatic improvement from year one to year two, and throughout the season of year two...it is just beyond exciting to think of what he can do this year with the weapons and improved line.

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-26-2022, 10:51 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: So the areas Taylor needs to improve on. Of course he could improve. Andy Reid lost 2 games to Zac. Mike Tomlin lost 2 games to Zac. John Harbaugh lost 2 games to Zac. Don’t doubt they had some limitations.

They scored 41 points on the Ravens TWICE. Taylor’s predictability got him two major wins with strong second halves vs KC. On the road against Tenn in the playoffs with little time called some great pass plays to set up the winning field goal. His resume is what it is. 3-1 in his first playoff ever as a head coach and OC. I’ll take it predictability or not LOL. I’ll take clutch over predictability any time. How he called when it counted was pretty darn good.

Sorry I’m not so quick to sing his praises. Well, not really lol. I did complement him quite a bit in my previous posts. He’s got to earn my respect though. At times he’s made some bonehead calls and that sticks in my mind. But overall I really like the team he’s building. Those coaches you mentioned that he beat, what’s his overall record against them? He needs a couple more wins against harbaugh to get to .500. Don’t get me wrong, I very much want to see him evolve into an elite coach. I don’t see it YET though. Lots of room to improve in terms of the areas I outlined (game management, play calling, attacking the defenses main weakness and keeping them off balance, less predictability, etc).

And kudos to Lou and the defense for what they did against the chiefs in the playoffs. The offense did just enough in that game. They didn’t put up a boatload of points against the titans either. Granted the offensive line. But our defense carried us in the playoffs. I think this year the switch will flip on offense as well with an improved oline. And I think Zac and burrow will learn from their mistakes last year as well and get better.

IMO there are fans that are quick to anoint him as the second coming and that’s a bit premature. He’s got a lot to learn and improve on. He definitely has the potential to be one of the top coaches in the league—especially with the talent level on the team. But he’s learning. I think he’ll get there. Burrow will definitely get there. It’ll be fun to watch it play itself out.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

If the offensive line moves work, it should be downright scary for teams. I think that's why you saw the AFC make big moves. They saw what we did with a very porous line that has been bad for six years.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-25-2022, 12:12 PM)Yogo Wrote: I feel like we are an exact mirror of the Steelers.  Zac and Tomlin are not the best tacticians, but they are inspirational and well liked.  Duke and Colbert were good at drafting certain positions and horrible at others (we sucked at drafting OL, they suck at drafting DBs).  But overall, they built talented very rosters.  Steeler fans sometimes say that it's Tomlin's assistants that make them look good more so than the coach, except for last year.  So I guess we both have winning teams mostly due to average coaches, surrounded by good assistant, and amazing GMs.

Times really have changed when you see that statement regarding the Bengals.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-26-2022, 12:20 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: There are games where he has failed to attack the defense’s weakness—like the bears game for instance. There are also crucial situations like in the super bowl where he calls predictable plays that get blown up. He has a tendency to run his offense no matter who he’s playing against—without changing the game plan to cater to the specific opponent’s strengths and weaknesses. Yes the oline makes it very difficult because you don’t want burrow to get killed back there, and it’s hard to muster up a run game. But the major area I think he should improve is predictability. it’s easy to tell a pass from a run by formation alone. He needs to do a better job of attacking the weakness and keeping the defense off balance. It makes it incredibly hard to defend an offense when you think they are doing one thing and they do the opposite. Also every pass play should have a shallow route like a slant or cross as a quick outlet in case of pressure.

Don’t get me wrong, we definitely improved and had a good year. Taylor showed signs of improving as a coach for sure. But there are definitely areas he can improve on. I think the oline improving and the overall talent on offense should make his job easy this year.

Burrow can improve as well and I think he will behind an improved oline. I thought this year he didn’t go through his progressions as quickly and didn’t see open receivers—sometimes staring down his hot receivers and missing the wide open back. With more time to throw and more experience I think he will be much sharper.

You left out three straight INTs during that Bears game. I feel like he made a bad call against SF late, and Lou had a bad day in NY. 

[Soonerpeace]

The Bengals management structure is that the scouting department and Duke Tobin bring the prospects for FA and the Draft to the coaches. It’s a group effort. Zac,Lou and Brian and the position coaches look over the list. This staff is more involved in the selections than most. Zac wants them invested. Pollack had lots of input in the new OL Free Agents. The top picks are decided by Mike Brown , Zac, and Duke together. So we seem better there yet only the coaching staff has changed. I think Zac tweaked some things. Mainly looking at more team leaders, players from winning teams, drafting players from strong college programs, team captains whether free agents or from college, and players that love ball. I also think this staff is maybe younger and better at it.

[fredtoast]

(03-26-2022, 12:20 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote:  But the major area I think he should improve is predictability. it’s easy to tell a pass from a run by formation alone. 

How?

We line up in the shotgun with 1 RB most of the time and both run and pass out of that formation.

How can you tell if we are going to run or pass based on formation alone?

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-27-2022, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can we please stop with this.

Other coaches get hired away from Super Bowl staffs all the time and no one any place else tries to act like those coaches did not have time to draft players or look at free agents.  In fact many of them are able to make huge improvements in their first year despite not getting started until after the Super Bowl.

That was in reference to Burrow

[fredtoast]

(03-27-2022, 12:11 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: That was in reference to Burrow

My mistake.

Post deleted.

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-27-2022, 11:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How?

We line up in the shotgun with 1 RB most of the time and both run and pass out of that formation.

How can you tell if we are going to run or pass based on formation alone?

I can’t point to specifics as I’m not about to rewatch a bunch of games to make my point. But a good example is 3rd and short where we come out run heavy and you can tell they are running it and it gets stuffed. This happened a lot this year. Our short yardage offense was terrible. Now a better oline would help. But not being so obvious with what we are doing would as well. I think you made a thread about how we could be so much more successful passing on 3rd and short. Sometimes just coming out with a formation that tells you nothing in terms of tendency averages is the best way to keep the defense guessing. We tend to either run empty shotgun on a pass or heavy when we run. Need to get more creative. If teams know what’s coming it’s a little easier on them. If they don’t we’re that much tougher to beat.

[Nepa]

Do the Bengals have a minority offensive assistant coach? That is the new requirement for the 2022 season, either "a female or a member of an ethnic or racial minority." I don't usually look at ethnic or racial status, so I don't know.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33617341/nfl-says-all-teams-add-minority-offensive-coach-expands-rooney-rule-include-women

[Soonerpeace]

(03-28-2022, 08:03 PM)Nepa Wrote: Do the Bengals have a minority offensive assistant coach? That is the new requirement for the 2022 season, either "a female or a member of an ethnic or racial minority." I don't usually look at ethnic or racial status, so I don't know.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33617341/nfl-says-all-teams-add-minority-offensive-coach-expands-rooney-rule-include-women

Troy Walters receivers coach

[Nepa]

(03-29-2022, 10:51 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Troy Walters receivers coach

Thank you.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-27-2022, 02:39 AM)Wyche Wrote: If the offensive line moves work, it should be downright scary for teams. I think that's why you saw the AFC make big moves. They saw what we did with a very porous line that has been bad for six years.

Yes, AFC teams took notice of what we did and improved their own teams significantly to keep up.

Even with their improvements we will be a tough out with a decent O-line. With good protection for Burrow and holes for Mixon
and company to run through and our weapons on Offense it will be scary as you say Wyche. What is awesome is the Defense was
the main reason we made it to the Superbowl and had a chance to win it and this side of the ball can also improve this Offseason.

Bringing back BJ Hill was a nice start and this is a pretty fantastic Draft on the Defensive side of the ball for our needs.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-27-2022, 05:47 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I can’t point to specifics as I’m not about to rewatch a bunch of games to make my point. But a good example is 3rd and short where we come out run heavy and you can tell they are running it and it gets stuffed. This happened a lot this year. Our short yardage offense was terrible. Now a better oline would help. But not being so obvious with what we are doing would as well. I think you made a thread about how we could be so much more successful passing on 3rd and short. Sometimes just coming out with a formation that tells you nothing in terms of tendency averages is the best way to keep the defense guessing. We tend to either run empty shotgun on a pass or heavy when we run. Need to get more creative. If teams know what’s coming it’s a little easier on them. If they don’t we’re that much tougher to beat.

The Bengals come out in 13 personnel and run heavy sets on short yardage. The best is SF. Don’t tell Kyle Shanahan that he shouldn’t use it in short yardage and it’s predictable he’s liable to send you to the funny farm or send you to room with Randle McMurphy.

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-29-2022, 03:56 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The Bengals come out in 13 personnel and run heavy sets on short yardage. The best is SF. Don’t tell Kyle Shanahan that he shouldn’t use it in short yardage and it’s predictable he’s liable to send you to the funny farm or send you to room with Randle McMurphy.

Amazing what a good offensive line and great blocking can do for you. I'd love to have a run offense like SF has had the past couple years.

I'm not saying you can't be predictable at times. If you can line up against an opponent and they know what's coming and still can't stop it, that's huge. But when you don't have the blocking to back it up and you make obvious run calls that go nowhere, maybe it's time to mix it up a little bit. The same goes for obvious pass situations and the opponent knows to throw everything into their pass rush. It's certainly an area we can improve on. 

Even if we are to the point with our offense that we can drop back in shotgun and get the blocking we need to dissect a defense and win on virtually every play, I would still like to see us mix it up a good amount of the time (maybe half the time) with formations where we can be doing multiple things from that formation. Doing so just makes it easier for your players to win one on one battles.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-29-2022, 04:41 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Amazing what a good offensive line and great blocking can do for you. I'd love to have a run offense like SF has had the past couple years.

I'm not saying you can't be predictable at times. If you can line up against an opponent and they know what's coming and still can't stop it, that's huge. But when you don't have the blocking to back it up and you make obvious run calls that go nowhere, maybe it's time to mix it up a little bit. The same goes for obvious pass situations and the opponent knows to throw everything into their pass rush. It's certainly an area we can improve on. 

Even if we are to the point with our offense that we can drop back in shotgun and get the blocking we need to dissect a defense and win on virtually every play, I would still like to see us mix it up a good amount of the time (maybe half the time) with formations where we can be doing multiple things from that formation. Doing so just makes it easier for your players to win one on one battles.

We can do more scheming with the guys we brought in that is for sure.

[3wt]

(03-26-2022, 12:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Thanks, man.  This line you wrote highlights something I keep saying about Joe Burrow and this team:  When he gets a second shot at someone.  He didn't really get that much in year 1 because of the injury, but year 2...just as he was in college, he was undefeated in rematches.  If you think about it, this upcoming year isn't really his third year, but year 2.5.  He has just shown such a dramatic improvement from year one to year two, and throughout the season of year two...it is just beyond exciting to think of what he can do this year with the weapons and improved line.

I've never been so excited as a fan.   I feel like we had a fully fleshed out head on skeletal frame work - OK with a few fully formed elements of the core and extremities  (WRs, RB and Defense).

And I give the FO and coaching an A for fleshing things out in the off season.  If they have a good draft - and I feel we need to in this conference - the sky is within reach.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-08-2022, 10:46 AM)3wt Wrote: I've never been so excited as a fan.   I feel like we had a fully fleshed out head on skeletal frame work - OK with a few fully formed elements of the core and extremities  (WRs, RB and Defense).

And I give the FO and coaching an A for fleshing things out in the off season.  If they have a good draft - and I feel we need to in this conference - the sky is within reach.

No coincidence that once we started drafting well once again we started to win once again.

Sure helped being where we were in the Draft when we started but the FO and coaches took the right players.

Lots of players taken early flame out, happens all the time. But Burrow, Tee and Chase have all been dynamite.

Hope Carman follows and becomes an All Pro LG.