Paul Daughtery: Doc: Zac Taylor came in strutting, without actually strutting. He was

[*bfine32*]

(05-07-2022, 01:11 PM)Stewy Wrote: I can't believe this argument is still going on.

The state of the locker room is not black and white, as some pretend the discussion to be.  

The way I see it, it is a combination of player buy in, moving on from players not buying in (from the old regime), and winning.  While they say winning cures everything, that is to singular.  It is a combination of like minds (high motor guys who love football (per Duke Tobin)), success (DUH!) and buy in to the system (listen to Hilton interview).

I guess the obvious question is:

Why would a fan of this team try so hard to prove thew positive culture in the locker room has not facilitated our amazing success. 

[Soonerpeace]

(05-07-2022, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can repeat your opinion as many times as you want, but that does not make it true.

An opinion never means it’s true or false. We’ve seen yours a thousand times on your islands.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2022, 10:11 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: One thing I will offer (not to get in the Fred vs. Chemistry debate), but it was apparent from Day 1 that Joe liked ZTs vision and personality.  There were MANY in the media stating how the Bengals would ruin Joe Burrow and he should ***** his way out of playing for the Bengals.  Joe had a dearth of talent on the offensive line his first two years (although they tried to get some help in 2020, it just didn't pan out) yet he stayed the course and bought in to the plan 100%.

Funny how we don't hear about Burrow forcing his way out any more???  Maybe that is just Joe Burrow, some would argue, but I seriously doubt he would have stood for the shit show that was Urban Meyer.  Now, you can say that comparing ZT to the flaming turd Meyer is like comparing a model to the average female steelers fan, but still....Joe has been in ZTs camp from day 1 and never wavered.  Ditto EVERY player he has brought in via FA and the draft.  It says something to me.

So true. If anything, Joe loves Zac and wouldn't want to play anywhere else contrary to all the Stool troll's hopes like Florio...

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2022, 02:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess the obvious question is:

Why would a fan of this team try so hard to prove thew positive culture in the locker room has not facilitated our amazing success. 

Because some people still care about truth.

It is kind of like when Joe first arrived and many fans were claiming that he did not need a good o-line because he was so good at avoiding pressure and that he did not need great receivers because he could "throw them open".  When I claimed Burrow did need a good line and receivers I was accused of "attacking him".

When our top talented players start asking for lots of money to stay with the Bengals the same fans will be saying "Zac does not need these expensive players to win because he has 'built a culture'."

The truth matters.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-07-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because some people still care about truth.

It is kind of like when Joe first arrived and many fans were claiming that he did not need a good o-line because he was so good at avoiding pressure and that he did not need great receivers because he could "throw them open".  When I claimed Burrow did need a good line and receivers I was accused of "attacking him".

When our top talented players start asking for lots of money to stay with the Bengals the same fans will be saying "Zac does not need these expensive players to win because he has 'built a culture'."

The truth matters.

The truth is it takes time to build a culture like Zac has finally got going. It doesn't happen overnight with terrible players in the
trenches on both sides of the ball that Marv left here. Burrow is the best QB at throwing under pressure in the NFL, damn rights 
he needs a good O-line in front of him like all QB's but he is better than everybody else just the same.

The truth also is that these Captains that we bring in also have to be damn good players in their own right.

Zac isn't just bringing in good guys that suck.

Your truth is skewed Fred.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because some people still care about truth.

It is kind of like when Joe first arrived and many fans were claiming that he did not need a good o-line because he was so good at avoiding pressure and that he did not need great receivers because he could "throw them open".  When I claimed Burrow did need a good line and receivers I was accused of "attacking him".

When our top talented players start asking for lots of money to stay with the Bengals the same fans will be saying "Zac does not need these expensive players to win because he has 'built a culture'."

The truth matters.

That is a HUGE leap from what everyone has been saying.  There is no "truth" there, only a massive leap in what you perceive would happen. 

And I seriously doubt any fans on here said that Joe "didn't need" a good o-line or great receivers, only PERHAPS that he may be able to do more to avoid a rush than many QBs, and with his vision and patience PERHAPS he doesn't need the best weapons.  I think everyone wanted him to have a better line (so he would have more time for guys to get open) and a vertical threat to open up everything underneath.  The roster was largely possession receivers that lacked the ability to separate quickly (though Tee really impressed despite his size and testing).

You are just looking at what others are saying about culture as an absolute and nothing else matters when I think everyone is just trying to discuss that it is there.  It is palpable.  It doesn't mean you don't need talent of hard work, but it is there and it matters.  

Are you proud of me, everyone?  I made it through that entire post without making a single "You can't handle the truth" metaphor.  Oops.  Oh, well.  

[Soonerpeace]

(05-07-2022, 03:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The truth is it takes time to build a culture like Zac has finally got going. It doesn't happen overnight with terrible players in the
trenches on both sides of the ball that Marv left here. Burrow is the best QB at throwing under pressure in the NFL, damn rights 
he needs a good O-line in front of him like all QB's but he is better than everybody else just the same.

The truth also is that these Captains that we bring in also have to be damn good players in their own right.

Zac isn't just bringing in good guys that suck.

Your truth is skewed Fred.

(05-08-2022, 07:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That is a HUGE leap from what everyone has been saying.  There is no "truth" there, only a massive leap in what you perceive would happen. 

And I seriously doubt any fans on here said that Joe "didn't need" a good o-line or great receivers, only PERHAPS that he may be able to do more to avoid a rush than many QBs, and with his vision and patience PERHAPS he doesn't need the best weapons.  I think everyone wanted him to have a better line (so he would have more time for guys to get open) and a vertical threat to open up everything underneath.  The roster was largely possession receivers that lacked the ability to separate quickly (though Tee really impressed despite his size and testing).

You are just looking at what others are saying about culture as an absolute and nothing else matters when I think everyone is just trying to discuss that it is there.  It is palpable.  It doesn't mean you don't need talent of hard work, but it is there and it matters.  

Are you proud of me, everyone?  I made it through that entire post without making a single "You can't handle the truth" metaphor.  Oops.  Oh, well.  

Great job guys. Fred’s going to be miserable for a long time and living on his island. It will get old on Zac and his staff. Taylor is going to have a very long stint here.

[*bfine32*]

(05-07-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because some people still care about truth.

It is kind of like when Joe first arrived and many fans were claiming that he did not need a good o-line because he was so good at avoiding pressure and that he did not need great receivers because he could "throw them open".  When I claimed Burrow did need a good line and receivers I was accused of "attacking him".

When our top talented players start asking for lots of money to stay with the Bengals the same fans will be saying "Zac does not need these expensive players to win because he has 'built a culture'."

The truth matters.

So Joe Burrow was lying last year after the first game when he pointed to improved character as the reason they were able to win after blowing a 14 point lead? 

As for Joe "needing a good line to succeed": he went to the Super Bowl, had the 2nd highest passer rating in the NFL (1st in AFC) with garbage on the O-line. So maybe you were wrong............nah that can't be it...everybody else is wrong and you just speak the truth..

[ATOTR]

Burrow has a career 100 passer rating behind one of the worst olines in the nfl 2020-21.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-07-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because some people still care about truth.

It is kind of like when Joe first arrived and many fans were claiming that he did not need a good o-line because he was so good at avoiding pressure and that he did not need great receivers because he could "throw them open".  When I claimed Burrow did need a good line and receivers I was accused of "attacking him".

When our top talented players start asking for lots of money to stay with the Bengals the same fans will be saying "Zac does not need these expensive players to win because he has 'built a culture'."

The truth matters.

Only this isn't what was fully said... it's been covered already so no need repeating.

How does it feel to be a 00.01%'er?

[Savagehenry54]

(05-03-2022, 07:22 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: That was a good read. One thing I know about culture in the workplace is when you have a good one, there's nothing you can't do. While a bad one is a company killer. Leadership can carry a lot of the blame, but it starts on doing you due diligence on investigating who you hire in the first place.

You are spot on.  Hire from a position of strength.  And NFL teams certainly do that.

I think the trick Taylor is pulling off quite well so far is getting guys that fit his vision AND  can play in the league.  Hope he keeps it up.  I like this approach.

Having what certainly appears so far to be apex predators at QB and WR1 in a passing league certainly helps.

[Soonerpeace]

Oct 1


"This is just a new team. I honestly, it's like an afterthought. The past is the past right now," Uzomah said after he got a game ball. "I am just focused on this team and the culture and the people we have on this team are completely different than any team that I've had since I've been here so we just know. If it's a tight game we know in our heads we are going to win and we have to go out there and execute. We know we will.

"The culture in the locker room is huge. This isn't a job like, 'Oh, we're just going to work, play football. Go to these meetings.' We're the homies. We're brothers in there. We're grinding, having a good time talking to each other, chirping. When we chirp at practice it's not a knock. We're trying to make the other person better. That's the thing that is unique. Sometimes people take that personally and this year we're taking it as, maybe I'll just step up and do my job. The locker room and what the coaches have instilled in us is huge."

[Big_Ern]

(05-07-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because some people still care about truth.

It is kind of like when Joe first arrived and many fans were claiming that he did not need a good o-line because he was so good at avoiding pressure and that he did not need great receivers because he could "throw them open".  When I claimed Burrow did need a good line and receivers I was accused of "attacking him".

When our top talented players start asking for lots of money to stay with the Bengals the same fans will be saying "Zac does not need these expensive players to win because he has 'built a culture'."

The truth matters.

No one said these things 

[PDub80]

(05-08-2022, 03:42 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Oct 1


"This is just a new team. I honestly, it's like an afterthought. The past is the past right now," Uzomah said after he got a game ball. "I am just focused on this team and the culture and the people we have on this team are completely different than any team that I've had since I've been here so we just know. If it's a tight game we know in our heads we are going to win and we have to go out there and execute. We know we will.

"The culture in the locker room is huge. This isn't a job like, 'Oh, we're just going to work, play football. Go to these meetings.' We're the homies. We're brothers in there. We're grinding, having a good time talking to each other, chirping. When we chirp at practice it's not a knock. We're trying to make the other person better. That's the thing that is unique. Sometimes people take that personally and this year we're taking it as, maybe I'll just step up and do my job. The locker room and what the coaches have instilled in us is huge."

Everybody (let's be honest here, only 1 person... FRED) knows that CJ was just saying that because he was under contract and was being paid by the Bengals at the time of those statements. Players never mean the nice, positive things they say and are ALWAYS motivated by money.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-08-2022, 06:13 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Everybody (let's be honest here, only 1 person... FRED) knows that CJ was just saying that because he was under contract and was being paid by the Bengals at the time of those statements. Players never mean the nice, positive things they say and are ALWAYS motivated by money.

Guys come to work every day, and we really like each other," defensive tackle D.J. Reader said. "Early in the season, people weren’t too hot on us, but we believed in what we had. We knew we were grounded in camp. … Guys really formed a relationship during [OTAs]."

We’re] a sound team, a team that is willing to do anything to get the job done," receiver Tyler Boyd said. "Like, literally, we don’t care who’s getting the most targets or who’s getting tackles, and [guys are] not caring about their individual stats. Guys are not selfish. That’s what’s driving this team."

"It’s tough to point to one or two people," quarterback Joe Burrow told me. "It’s something that we work really hard at, creating relationships in the locker room. 

[ATOTR]

This is hilarious.

There are direct quotes from multiple players, those who actually play and get paid by the franchise, discussing the change in culture and how everyone’s working and driving towards the same thing.

And then there is a geezer named Fred on a message board trying to refute this.

Lol. What a bozo.

[HarleyDog]

(05-05-2022, 02:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is fascinating.  Did Burrow explain why he had a poor attitude and weak character in 2020?  Did he explain exactly what Zac did to fix him?

(05-05-2022, 02:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yep.  Instead of answering my tough questions you all just duck and dodge.  Or try to run and hide behind a personal attack.


Just like clockwork.

What attitude? Dude has not had a poor attitude since day 1. If anything, after being sacked as much, he gave the line credit because that's what leaders do. WTH are you talking about?

[*Go Cards*]

(05-05-2022, 12:58 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I thought you said ZT gets 3 years to get the team built to his liking??
So why are you focusing on years 1-2 for your argument when you know very well it takes some time to flip a roster.

The results of what ZT's effort cropped up in year 3. Now we get to see how much it continues to carry over. 
Also who says you can't have Character with out being talented as well?

The biggest reason no one can "show" you culture, is because it's an intangible asset that the players have. It's there, but very difficult to measure.

Exactly, its not like Zac is choosing between talent or character like some seem to claim. Zac is evaluating all the top talents and then separating them by character afterwards to try and see if the best of the best emerges. Believe he looks for team captains, coaches sons, and big time winners amongst the crop of talent. Seems pretty good at it too. 

Plus how can anyone hold a coach accountable for culture change in his 1st season before he can get the majority of his type players into the mix ?  

Hear all this stuff about how low penalties do not equate to wins even though the two lowest penalized teams in the entire NFL played in the SB just last season with the least penalized team winning. Obviously it doesn't seem to hurt a teams chances at winning either.  

Have seen so many people make fools of themselves questioning Zac and see more of this coming down the pike. 

Zac  > Marvin 

[PDub80]

(05-08-2022, 06:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Guys come to work every day, and we really like each other," defensive tackle D.J. Reader said. "Early in the season, people weren’t too hot on us, but we believed in what we had. We knew we were grounded in camp. … Guys really formed a relationship during [OTAs]."

We’re] a sound team, a team that is willing to do anything to get the job done," receiver Tyler Boyd said. "Like, literally, we don’t care who’s getting the most targets or who’s getting tackles, and [guys are] not caring about their individual stats. Guys are not selfish. That’s what’s driving this team."

"It’s tough to point to one or two people," quarterback Joe Burrow told me. "It’s something that we work really hard at, creating relationships in the locker room. 

Oh, exactly! The players, coaches, and FO have repeatedly brought character and locker room makeup up since ZT got there. Fred is the lone holdout non-believer.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-08-2022, 08:54 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Oh, exactly! The players, coaches, and FO have repeatedly brought character and locker room makeup up since ZT got there. Fred is the lone holdout non-believer.

Fred loved the old players and Marvin. A true Bengal fan would be ecstatic about the changes and direction.All Fred wants to do is minimize it all.