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(08-22-2022, 09:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Still sounds very fair considering how Bates played early last season.
If he played like he did in the Postseason all year him and his agent would have a point.
I would be very concerned now if he even signed the contract we offered.
He was a favorite of mine, I called for us to Draft him in multiple mock drafts before we did in the 3rd round.
We took him in the 2nd and he was better right out of the bat at tackling than I thought he would be, but then his sophomore
year was a bit of a let down and then last year where he was so distracted by something a pro shouldn't be distracted with...
Just play football man.
This. Spellchecked it for you too Synric. 
I dont really disagree, Im not for overpaying Bates whatsoever. But the guaranteed portion was very, very low. He is going to play, his barber says to expect him very soon (and yes Im being totally honest about this...lol).
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(08-22-2022, 09:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont really disagree, Im not for overpaying Bates whatsoever. But the guaranteed portion was very, very low. He is going to play, his barber says to expect him very soon (and yes Im being totally honest about this...lol).
Awesome. Just hope he is ready to go. 
Wish the best for Jessie. I just don't like his agent honestly.
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(08-22-2022, 05:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It makes lots of sense because it shows that he's not willing to budge on this and will cause the same kind of hell next offseason if he doesn't get what he wants. It has a lot to do with negotiations in 2023.
You think whatever you want Fritzy.... but that makes zero sense. A few of you believe he is still holding out for a new contract that is impossible to acquire after July 15th and upon realizing this now the goalposts have moved to he's not willing to budge for 2023 which is a million years away....??? His current situation is about injury and injury only, it isnt that difficult.
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Bates is suffering for making a bad hire when he brought his agent on board. His leverage is non-existent. He's not giving up 12 mil to sit out. He can't afford it. It's significantly more than he's ever made, and the result of not playing the year would be disastrous if his long term goal is a big contract and freedom to test FA (spoiler alert: it is).
He's allowing this guy to play hardball against a front office that has always been thoroughly unimpressed with aggressive agents. They've been in similar positions, and they don't really lose, ever. Negotiations were once considered their Super Bowl.
You need leverage to force someone to give you something you want. With Hill in the fold and playing well, any leverage Bates, which wasn't much to start with, is out the window. His best bet is to come in an have a great season, then collect a big contract for betting on himself. These histrionics are of no benefit to him outside of missing camp, and that's debatable if he doesn't come back ready to play at a high level.
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(08-22-2022, 09:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You think whatever you want Fritzy.... but that makes zero sense. A few of you believe he is still holding out for a new contract that is impossible to acquire after July 15th and upon realizing this now the goalposts have moved to he's not willing to budge for 2023 which is a million years away....??? His current situation is about injury and injury only, it isnt that difficult.
While you're not wrong; ask Earl Thomas how this all worked out for him. I still remember that middle finger toward his bench on the cart... Never the same after that either.
Poo Dey
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(08-22-2022, 09:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You think whatever you want Fritzy.... but that makes zero sense. A few of you believe he is still holding out for a new contract that is impossible to acquire after July 15th and upon realizing this now the goalposts have moved to he's not willing to budge for 2023 which is a million years away....??? His current situation is about injury and injury only, it isnt that difficult.
Gosh again 1000 times correct. The staff knows Bates timeline. There’s no issues. It’s a business. He loves the team. The coaches love him. They’ll make it work and he’ll get somebody to over pay after the season.
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
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I know a lot of posters have assumed Bates will be returning to the Bengals for the season. I see now that Hobson makes it sound like a definite in a post today:
"And how about rookie safety Dax Hill? The first-rounder who has been as advertised will be playing special teams when Jessie Bates III returns, but on Sunday he reminded everyone he's fit as seamlessly as any Bengals rookie has in recent memory."
There has not been any official statement as yet, correct? (Other than some post about his barber saying he will return!)
https://www.bengals.com/news/dax-hill-keeps-progressing-with-first-nfl-interception-vs-giants
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(08-22-2022, 10:47 PM)Nepa Wrote: I know a lot of posters have assumed Bates will be returning to the Bengals for the season. I see now that Hobson makes it sound like a definite in a post today:
"And how about rookie safety Dax Hill? The first-rounder who has been as advertised will be playing special teams when Jessie Bates III returns, but on Sunday he reminded everyone he's fit as seamlessly as any Bengals rookie has in recent memory."
There has not been any official statement as yet, correct? (Other than some post about his barber saying he will return!)
https://www.bengals.com/news/dax-hill-keeps-progressing-with-first-nfl-interception-vs-giants
Zac and Bates have been in constant communication. I’ve said for almost a week I expect him to join them any day.
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
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(08-22-2022, 10:47 PM)Nepa Wrote: I know a lot of posters have assumed Bates will be returning to the Bengals for the season. I see now that Hobson makes it sound like a definite in a post today:
"And how about rookie safety Dax Hill? The first-rounder who has been as advertised will be playing special teams when Jessie Bates III returns, but on Sunday he reminded everyone he's fit as seamlessly as any Bengals rookie has in recent memory."
There has not been any official statement as yet, correct? (Other than some post about his barber saying he will return!)
https://www.bengals.com/news/dax-hill-keeps-progressing-with-first-nfl-interception-vs-giants
Special teams? You know Lou will have him out there as a dime back or 3rd safety at times.
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(08-22-2022, 10:47 PM)Nepa Wrote: I know a lot of posters have assumed Bates will be returning to the Bengals for the season. I see now that Hobson makes it sound like a definite in a post today:
"And how about rookie safety Dax Hill? The first-rounder who has been as advertised will be playing special teams when Jessie Bates III returns, but on Sunday he reminded everyone he's fit as seamlessly as any Bengals rookie has in recent memory."
There has not been any official statement as yet, correct? (Other than some post about his barber saying he will return!)
https://www.bengals.com/news/dax-hill-keeps-progressing-with-first-nfl-interception-vs-giants
Nice. 
Just hope Jessie doesn't miss a beat and is playing like that guy in the Playoffs and SB right off the bat.
Will be better for us all if he does. 
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(08-22-2022, 09:54 PM)jason Wrote: While you're not wrong; ask Earl Thomas how this all worked out for him. I still remember that middle finger toward his bench on the cart... Never the same after that either.
Damn Jason, comparing the low life Earl Thomas to Bates is really unfair and quite unfounded, geez.....
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(08-22-2022, 10:50 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve said for almost a week I expect him to join them any day.
Well if you keep saying it every single day you will eventually be correct.
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(08-22-2022, 09:48 PM)samhain Wrote: Bates is suffering for making a bad hire when he brought his agent on board. His leverage is non-existent. He's not giving up 12 mil to sit out. He can't afford it. It's significantly more than he's ever made, and the result of not playing the year would be disastrous if his long term goal is a big contract and freedom to test FA (spoiler alert: it is).
He's allowing this guy to play hardball against a front office that has always been thoroughly unimpressed with aggressive agents. They've been in similar positions, and they don't really lose, ever. Negotiations were once considered their Super Bowl.
You need leverage to force someone to give you something you want. With Hill in the fold and playing well, any leverage Bates, which wasn't much to start with, is out the window. His best bet is to come in an have a great season, then collect a big contract for betting on himself. These histrionics are of no benefit to him outside of missing camp, and that's debatable if he doesn't come back ready to play at a high level.
It is not about leverage for a new contract.
Bates is just skipping training camp because he can with no financial penalty. That is a big benefit to NFL vets. They would all love to skip training camp.
So even with no new contract in the works Bates and his agent are winning.
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(08-22-2022, 09:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: his barber says to expect him very soon (and yes Im being totally honest about this...lol).
Well, if he keeps saying that everyday eventually he will be correct.
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(08-22-2022, 09:33 PM)casear2727 Wrote: What do you not understand Fred?
I don't know how you could say he would get a better deal from another team if you have no idea what the Bengals offered Bates.
If "percentage guaranteed" was all that mattered then some team could offer him $1 million but 100% guaranteed and in your book that would be better than $70 million with only 20% guaranteed.
You don't have a clue about how much any other NFL team would pay Bates total or guaranteed.
Fans appear desperate, or ignorant, or both, when they make comments like yours that are totally untruthful and without knowledge.
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(08-22-2022, 09:54 AM)casear2727 Wrote: So much wrong in this post:
His agent isnt screwing him whatsoever. The Bengals offered below market for Bates and he is avoiding injury at this point.
Common sense does NOT say he is hoping Hill is injured. Even if Hill is injured nothing changes - he cannot negotiate a new contract until AFTER the season. There is no need for leverage, also he has been in contact with Hill.
Bates was the 1st one to every practice last season, both voluntary and mandatory, and he ended up having his shittiest regular season of his career.
He is going to play this season, he and Dax will be fun to watch.
So much wrong on this post...you might read mine again. There is a calculation for the franchise tag for each position. This was agreed to by the NFLPA. Bates refuses to sign it and practice to this point, posturing that he will sit out the entire season. This changed the way the Bengals approached the draft.
As far as the Bengals original offer being below market, that is accurate only in terms of what was guaranteed. The total value of the contract through its conclusion was very fair. No one else on the team got a high 2nd year guarantee, but suddenly Bates should because...he played well in the postseason? Tell me why he earns that over guys like Chido or Hilton? Secondly, you need to show me evidence of when the Bengals didn't honor a contract to a star player. Show me a case where a guy was injured and was released out of his contract, saving the Bengals millions and the player losing out.
I don't know where to start with your connection between Bates being at every practice and having his shittiest season.
I personally believe his agent is screwing Bates with this bad advice and posturing about sitting out the season. You can believe otherwise, but I see a guy more concerned with his own reputation about getting unprecedented guarantees (which will NOT help the sport at all) rather than securing a future for the player.
I sincerely hopes Bates is back soon and plays starting week 1. I still believe he is a critical piece of this puzzle and it would be very fun to watch him and Hill together.
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(08-23-2022, 08:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:
Signing the tag, playtime is over
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Well he’s made himself look like a bit of a tit really hasn’t he!
Two and a half weeks to go until the first game, Dax looking very good while he’s sat in a box and putting videos on Instagram like a don’t forget about me guys meaning.
He was never not going to sign the tag and play all his bluffing has made him look stupid question is was this advice from his agent or is his attitude all wrong? We saw during regular season he was distracted and nowhere near at his best.
If Dax carries his form in to the regular season than Bates has to perform at his best or he will be on the bench within weeks and his dream of being the highest paid safety in the league goes bye bye.
It’s win/win either way for us tbh.
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Glad to have him back. We can have the Bates V Hill talk next year. This year they get to play on the same backfield and you’ll see Hill all over the field. That’s good news.
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