Chase’s route tree against Baltimore

[*PhilHos*]

(10-13-2022, 12:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

This is a waste of Ja’Marr Chase’s talent. Not nearly enough variety in the route tree. Bengals Xs & Os lacking creativity and they can’t just live off talent of skilled guys with that mess of an o-line pic.twitter.com/QUhmfmuIkp

— Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) October 12, 2022

The OL has been better the last few games, but he’s completely correct about the lack of variety in the routes.

Now, I can believe that there would be some Bengals fans that are stupid enough to think Chase was only on the field for 12 pass plays, but professional NFL analysts? Wow.

I mean, maybe  it's possible that ALL of Chase's routes are like the ones he's targeted on, but you'd think a professional analysts would show THAT graph as that would be more damning. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-13-2022, 09:57 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Now, I can believe that there would be some Bengals fans that are stupid enough to think Chase was only on the field for 12 pass plays, but professional NFL analysts? Wow.

I mean, maybe  it's possible that ALL of Chase's routes are like the ones he's targeted on, but you'd think a professional analysts would show THAT graph as that would be more damning. 

I’m not sure you’re really making the point you think you are. You’re really hung up on the charts only showing the targeted routes, but these being the plays that we actually went to Chase on make it look even worse, imo. This is pretty representative of the problem with the passing game right now when you look at the other guys route trees.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-13-2022, 10:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not sure you’re really making the point you think you are. You’re really hung up on the charts only showing the targeted routes, but these being the plays that we actually went to Chase on make it look even worse, imo. This is pretty representative of the problem with the passing game right now when you look at the other guys route trees.

What if, looking at ALL his routes, we can see that Chase is being moved around, he's running slants, comebacks, all kinds of shit? That would show that the issue is not with Chase's routes. Would it not? It's elsewhere; maybe Burrow, maybe timing of the playcall; whatever.

Now, if ALL his routes are looking like this, then yes, clearly this issue is the play design. And I don't know about you, but I'd like the team to actually FIX the problem. It can't be done by looking at a fraction of the information and deciding that's indicative of the problem. 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Now is this a play calling problem, or a problem with the playbook, and the entire offensive design (as much as you can claim that by looking at 10ish plays).

[Daddy-O]

(10-12-2022, 09:26 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Look at Jeffersons route depth the deep crosses
Doesn't  simple football logic dictate Jefferson
Has more chances to catch the ball in stride
And get YAC?
Chase is getting targets so close to
The LOS it's easy for defenders to close in
And gang tackle

My guess is Jefferson is not constantly going against a 2 deep shell.

The comparisons are interesting but are they actually comparing similar data points?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2022, 08:45 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: My guess is Jefferson is not constantly going against a 2 deep shell.

The comparisons are interesting but are they actually comparing similar data points?

Maybe not, as defenses have to respect Dalvin Cook a hell of a lot more than Joe Mixon right now, but teams are certainly giving Jefferson plenty of attention. Dude might be the best WR in the league at this point.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Definitely need more variety in his routes if Burrow is going to continue to target him so much.

Don't see the targets going down Sunday either with Tee maybe out. Still need to target Boyd and Hurst
when they are open, this has been a bigger problem than just Chase's route tree IMO.

[Dr.Z]

I'm expecting a positive regression game coming this weekend for him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-14-2022, 02:07 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: I'm expecting a positive regression game coming this weekend for him.

Positive regression? What is that Dr.Z? Lol

Should happen soon, could if he can start beating double teams. Burrow just needs to go to the open man if Chase is 
covered and make Defenses pay for doubling Chase. He is staring down Chase way too often when he is covered. Joe 
sees the film, he should adapt. Probably kicking himself all over the place missing Boyd all game last week when he was
WIDE open. Mike Thomas was even wide open a few times that would of been big plays had Joe seen it.

[Dr.Z]

(10-14-2022, 02:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Positive regression? What is that Dr.Z? Lol

Should happen soon, could if he can start beating double teams. Burrow just needs to go to the open man if Chase is 
covered and make Defenses pay for doubling Chase. He is staring down Chase way too often when he is covered. Joe 
sees the film, he should adapt. Probably kicking himself all over the place missing Boyd all game last week when he was
WIDE open. Mike Thomas was even wide open a few times that would of been big plays had Joe seen it.

Just a return to the mean (ie average) .   In simplest form it's kind of synonymous with saying "he's due." lol .  (in regards to what he averages over time production-wise)     

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-14-2022, 02:25 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: Just a return to the mean (ie average) .   In simplest form it's kind of synonymous with saying "he's due." lol .  (in regards to what he averages over time production-wise)     

I gotcha. Thinking the same. Was hoping Lattimore was healthy but he is not so he would try and cover him in single coverage.

Think Ja'Marr would go off just like Jefferson did against Lattimore in single coverage.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-12-2022, 07:09 AM)Wyche Wrote: Interesting..... I'd like to see it for the rest of the guys too.

You can find any player here, but they don't seem to have every game? - https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all

As a whole, the Bengals WR routes are lacking.

EDIT - This might be because of Cover 2. Not sure how much Taylor's crew is finding a way to expand the playbook to handle Cover 2, but it looks like in recent weeks they haven't ran many different short routes. That could be why the teams are having success - they only run a small handful of short route plays, and they are having to run those plays due to the coverage. So it's easier to guess what they will be running.

[likwit19]

This may seem obvious but it's way easier for a receiver to get YAC if they are getting the ball at speed/in stride vs getting the ball from a standstill which is how we were getting Chase the ball last week. Sure he has the ability to make people miss but it's way more difficult to do consistently.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-14-2022, 02:40 PM)likwit19 Wrote: This may seem obvious but it's way easier for a receiver to get YAC if they are getting the ball at speed/in stride vs getting the ball from a standstill which is how we were getting Chase the ball last week. Sure he has the ability to make people miss but it's way more difficult to do consistently.

Sure would be awesome to see that Joe Burrow show up that hits his Receivers in stride making YAC so much easier...

[LSUfaninTN]

(10-14-2022, 02:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Positive regression? What is that Dr.Z? Lol

Should happen soon, could if he can start beating double teams. Burrow just needs to go to the open man if Chase is 
covered and make Defenses pay for doubling Chase. He is staring down Chase way too often when he is covered. Joe 
sees the film, he should adapt. Probably kicking himself all over the place missing Boyd all game last week when he was
WIDE open. Mike Thomas was even wide open a few times that would of been big plays had Joe seen it.

He was double teamed a bunch last season. I wouldn’t worry about Chase. 

This is one thing that made me nervous about Burrow/Chase. The 2 went through so much at LSU (summer of 100,000 catches, National Championship, etc) that he was immediately going to become the favorite even in double coverage. I had thought he wasn’t targeting Chase as much but I was swiftly corrected and checked out the stats. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-14-2022, 05:40 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: He was double teamed a bunch last season. I wouldn’t worry about Chase. 

This is one thing that made me nervous about Burrow/Chase. The 2 went through so much at LSU (summer of 100,000 catches, National Championship, etc) that he was immediately going to become the favorite even in double coverage. I had thought he wasn’t targeting Chase as much but I was swiftly corrected and checked out the stats. 

All true. It will come together and they will figure it out. Both of these guys are way too smart and talented for it not to.

[Dr.Z]

(10-14-2022, 02:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Positive regression? What is that Dr.Z? Lol

That was positive regression my friend lol ; WHO DEY

[Housh]

His tree should be all over the field today. Slants, tried a screen, deep shots, sideline short pass. He did everything today.

Chase has such gravity that putting him in the backfield may actually be bad. Like him in motion too

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-16-2022, 05:09 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: That was positive regression my friend lol ; WHO DEY

Yeah, that is more like it ha ha

(10-16-2022, 05:13 PM)Housh Wrote: His tree should be all over the field today. Slants, tried a screen, deep shots, sideline short pass. He did everything today.

Chase has such gravity that putting him in the backfield may actually be bad. Like him in motion too

Nicely done by Zac and the coaching staff putting Chase in situations where he can really succeed. This was the game we
needed to see against a very good Defense. That Saints Defense granted it had Lattimore at the time and wasn't as banged
up had Tom Brady more frustrated than I have ever seen him. Impressive win in their place.

[coachmcneil71]

(10-12-2022, 02:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Ja’marr routes vs JJ’s routes. Night & DEY. pic.twitter.com/IXcYoyX4H7

— Wincy (@WincinnatiPod) October 12, 2022

This is absolutely shocking when you actually look at it. These coaches have to do a much better job of putting their players in a position to thrive. Cause this ain’t it.

Bush League! My JRH team had a more sophisticated passing system.