If this Man was....

[Sled21]

(10-18-2022, 10:16 PM)J24 Wrote: He had a ton of great draft picks while he was here. Also he drafted two  HOF caliber players in Whitworth and Atkins,  saying that we wouldn't be good at drafting is a bit absurd.

This is an odd statement.  1.) Duke runs every  draft 2.) Duke philosophy in drafting players has been pretty  consistent over this past decade.

Yep Marvin never really had the freedom to attack free agency like Duke and Zac have.

Horsechit.

[BengalsRocker]

Can we honestly just say that Marvin was our HC for way too long and Zac needs to relinquish his play calling duties?

Let's not rewrite history and present through rose colored glasses.

[SunsetBengal]

If Marvin were our coach today, the team would likely be sitting at 1-5 and we'd all be bitching about his demeanor in press conferences.

A hee, hee, hee, we just gotta play harder..

[Garrus]

Marvin Lewis teams could never handle adversity. If he were the coach last year we would have ended the season 8-9 instead of 10-7 and not even made the playoffs.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-18-2022, 06:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't what you're trying to say here. He wouldn't have drafted Joe Burrow 1st overall? He did that with Carson. He wouldn't draft Chase 5th overall? He did that 4th overall with AJ Green.

I'm nowhere near a Marvin apologist as anyone on this board can attest, but outside of sucking enough to get really really high can't-miss 1st round draft picks a couple years, they haven't drafted crazy well in the Zac Taylor era.

The biggest difference between the Marvin and Taylor era is that the FO is willing to spend money in FA. 11 of the top 20 paid players on the Bengals this year (avg salary) are outside FAs, including the top-2 highest paid.

I dunno man, Tee Higgins, Logan Wilson, Jonah Williams, Pratt, Shooter, maybe Volson, solid rotational guys like Cam Sample, ADG, etc are pretty good draft picks. 

As to the FA, someone had to convince ownership to do it, and those pickups have largely been a rousing success. I don't know if it's Zac or not in that department, but the players he targeted are legit.

[Sled21]

Marvin brought us from being the laughing stock of the league to a team that was mediocre. That said, he would not make in game adjustments, could never get the team up for a game after a bye, and had just a few Prime Time wins. He hit his ceiling and should have been gone several years before he was released.

[higgy100]

(10-19-2022, 10:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Marvin brought us from being the laughing stock of the league to a team that was mediocre. That said, he would not make in game adjustments, could never get the team up for a game after a bye, and had just a few Prime Time wins. He hit his ceiling and should have been gone several years before he was released.

I'll agree with you for the most part but I believe he took us beyond mediocrity considering the plight of the organization for almost 15 years. Six double-digit win seasons and 4 AFC North divisions. Again, just couldn't get the playoff win which is huge.

Look, Dusty Baker is going to go down as one of the greatest managers in history even without a WS so Marvin was alot like DB was in that both could not get their teams over the hump so I'd certainly say if DB is recognized as such then Marvin is more than just mediocre.

[*Go Cards*]

(10-19-2022, 08:29 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Antwan Odom and the receiver that tore his knee day 1 come to mind.  Delta and Tory James came in an played great, as well as Chido and Hilton likely.  Roy Williams had some good years and John Thornton.  Sam Adams.  I think the current regime did a better job scouting and vetting good fits in FA. 

Cedric Benson, Terrell Owens, Tank Johnson, and Jon Kitna off the top of my head as well. 

But the Bengals are much more aggressive in FA these last few years imo, 

and happy to see it.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2022, 05:26 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Coach this team we have now would be elite.

Guy couldn't win 1 playoff game in 7 tries and you think he'd make this team elite?

GTFOuttahere

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-19-2022, 08:29 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Antwan Odom and the receiver that tore his knee day 1 come to mind.  Delta and Tory James came in an played great, as well as Chido and Hilton likely.  Roy Williams had some good years and John Thornton.  Sam Adams.  I think the current regime did a better job scouting and vetting good fits in FA. 

Deltha was traded for
Roy Williams signed for 1yr/$900k, was 29
Sam Adams was 33 years old

Thornton (2003)
James (2003)
Odom (2008)
Bryant (2010)

You do realize that in order to try to prove that the Bengals FO weren't lazy about signing quality outside FA you managed to compile a list of 4 guys in 16 years? Even if you were able to think up another 4 to that list, that's 8 in 16 years. Meanwhile the FO gave Taylor money to go out and get Reader, Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hilton, Bell... also known as the best players on the defense while also giving money to sign Karras, Cappa, and Collins... also known as the 2 best players on the OL and Collins.

The current regime did a better job at being given money to spend on good outside FAs.

[*Nately120*]

ZT without Burrow is far worse than Marvin was without Burrow. I mean, if Burrow is the franchise savior we want him to be, it's impossible to say if ZT is even a mediocre HC because he sure wasn't any good with Marvin's roster in 2019.

[Tomkat]

(10-18-2022, 05:26 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Coach this team we have now would be elite.

Just seeing his face makes me cringe and then borderline ill...
I don't hate the guy, I just can't help but think of all the talented teams he wasted.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-19-2022, 09:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: I dunno man, Tee Higgins, Logan Wilson, Jonah Williams, Pratt, Shooter, maybe Volson, solid rotational guys like Cam Sample, ADG, etc are pretty good draft picks. 

As to the FA, someone had to convince ownership to do it, and those pickups have largely been a rousing success. I don't know if it's Zac or not in that department, but the players he targeted are legit.

Higgins was a great pick. I do wonder how he'll fair if/when he is signed by a team that expects him to be a #1 and he no longer has Chase drawing double coverage or a #1 off of him.

Logan Wilson is pretty good but he's going to be done real early. Third year in a row where he's hurt and LBs don't get more healthy as they collide with folks more, and shoulders don't get more healthy for LBs the more you injure them. 

Jonah has had 1 decent year out of 4. He was a 11th overall pick. He's Andre Smith 2.0, but without the flashes of true greatness that Andre occasionally had. He wasn't having a good year before his injury and now the injury will be used as an excuse to explain away poor play. 

Pratt is a 2 down LB with bad coverage skills in a league where QBs love throwing to RBs and TEs. His QB Rating Allowed by year in his career is 120.1, 110.2, 101.4, and 115.9.

McPherson was a great pick.

Volson I know we don't treat it as gospel, but he is the 60th ranked G in the league by PFF right now. He's be an extreme mixed bag and can't be called a good pick yet.

Sample and ADG are the definition of replaceable guys we only care about/know about because they wear a Bengals uniform.



There's been 5 in 4 years, and 2 of them were the 1st and 5th overall picks. This teams starting lineups have been built heavily around outside FAs to overcome drafting shortfalls.

- - - - - - - -

Wasn't the whole story that Katie and Troy took over more of running the team from Mike and that's when they started spending money in FA? I don't think Marvin was here for 16 years and never tried the revolutionary tactic of asking "hey can we sign some good players?" 

[Big_Ern]

(10-19-2022, 03:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Deltha was traded for
Roy Williams signed for 1yr/$900k, was 29
Sam Adams was 33 years old

Thornton (2003)
James (2003)
Odom (2008)
Bryant (2010)

You do realize that in order to try to prove that the Bengals FO weren't lazy about signing quality outside FA you managed to compile a list of 4 guys in 16 years? Even if you were able to think up another 4 to that list, that's 8 in 16 years. Meanwhile the FO gave Taylor money to go out and get Reader, Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hilton, Bell... also known as the best players on the defense while also giving money to sign Karras, Cappa, and Collins... also known as the 2 best players on the OL and Collins.

The current regime did a better job at being given money to spend on good outside FAs.

It didn't help when Mike spent money on Odom and the receiver and got burned 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-19-2022, 04:02 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Just seeing his face makes me cringe and then borderline ill...
I don't hate the guy, I just can't help but think of all the talented teams he wasted.

Try watching '09 and '13 hard knocks over again. 

[Tlawsonmariat82]

Zac Taylor has never truly earned the opportunity he's been afforded;Marvin on the other hand had to earn his way thru the ranks..Marvin took over a 2-14 team and went 8-8 right away in a division that fielded 2 playoff teams, meanwhile Zac lost 27 games in his first 2 seasons..

The 2015 bengals would absolutely obliterate this current team, geno Atkins in his prime would have a field day against this oline and the 2015 oline would dominate this dline..I do think awuzie would hold his own against a.j but you still had Marvin Jones, mo sanu and gio out of the backfield..

[*jason*]

(10-19-2022, 03:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Deltha was traded for
Roy Williams signed for 1yr/$900k, was 29
Sam Adams was 33 years old

Thornton (2003)
James (2003)
Odom (2008)
Bryant (2010)

You do realize that in order to try to prove that the Bengals FO weren't lazy about signing quality outside FA you managed to compile a list of 4 guys in 16 years? Even if you were able to think up another 4 to that list, that's 8 in 16 years. Meanwhile the FO gave Taylor money to go out and get Reader, Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hilton, Bell... also known as the best players on the defense while also giving money to sign Karras, Cappa, and Collins... also known as the 2 best players on the OL and Collins.

The current regime did a better job at being given money to spend on good outside FAs.

Some are so blinded by disdain for Marvin that they can't see this simple undeniable truth.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-19-2022, 04:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Higgins was a great pick. I do wonder how he'll fair if/when he is signed by a team that expects him to be a #1 and he no longer has Chase drawing double coverage or a #1 off of him.

Logan Wilson is pretty good but he's going to be done real early. Third year in a row where he's hurt and LBs don't get more healthy as they collide with folks more, and shoulders don't get more healthy for LBs the more you injure them. 

Jonah has had 1 decent year out of 4. He was a 11th overall pick. He's Andre Smith 2.0, but without the flashes of true greatness that Andre occasionally had. He wasn't having a good year before his injury and now the injury will be used as an excuse to explain away poor play. 

Pratt is a 2 down LB with bad coverage skills in a league where QBs love throwing to RBs and TEs. His QB Rating Allowed by year in his career is 120.1, 110.2, 101.4, and 115.9.

McPherson was a great pick.

Volson I know we don't treat it as gospel, but he is the 60th ranked G in the league by PFF right now. He's be an extreme mixed bag and can't be called a good pick yet.

Sample and ADG are the definition of replaceable guys we only care about/know about because they wear a Bengals uniform.



There's been 5 in 4 years, and 2 of them were the 1st and 5th overall picks. This teams starting lineups have been built heavily around outside FAs to overcome drafting shortfalls.

- - - - - - - -

Wasn't the whole story that Katie and Troy took over more of running the team from Mike and that's when they started spending money in FA? I don't think Marvin was here for 16 years and never tried the revolutionary tactic of asking "hey can we sign some good players?" 

Tee looked pretty good in year one though, had a bout with the drops for a bit, best I remember, but he finished strong before the injury.

The other guys I said were rotational guys, Pratt is decent enough. Jonah actually played pretty well last year in his first whole season, he's not been great this year, for sure....but he's played beside some pretty bad guards until Spain took over. And the current left G, I said was a maybe. That said, he has been trending up for the last several weeks and shown flashes. Not too bad for a fourth rounder out of a FCS school. Jury out.

As to Marvin and FAs, I did read an article a while back (I think it was even posted here) that he was a big fan of the reclamation projects....i.e. the dudes that showed a lack of discipline and mental toughness when it mattered most. Now, the aggression could absolutely be Katie and the new blood, but the types of players they target are what ZT and this staff want. High character, captains, and guys from national championship/playoff teams. There's a change in philosophy there.

I want to make clear that I was more than happy with Marvin until after the 2013 season. I was ok with him being here until the 2015 fiasco. All of that being said, he drug this franchise, kicking and screaming into the 21st century. I don't think he gets enough credit for what he did here nationally and within our fan base. 

Things have changed within the league, and I personally don't think Marvin is the style of coach that would resonate with these young men. Obviously just an opinion, but I think it holds some merit. Marvin is a great dude too....but I believe his approach grew stale and still would be. I wish he had gotten that playoff monkey off his back, but he never did. We seemed to fold under pressure across numerous rosters, and that always pointed to a coaching issue to me. These Bengals don't wilt.....I think the staff is at least somewhat responsible for that....and their desire for team captain type players.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-19-2022, 06:45 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Zac Taylor has never truly earned the opportunity he's been afforded;Marvin on the other hand had to earn his way thru the ranks..Marvin took over a 2-14 team and went 8-8 right away in a division that fielded 2 playoff teams, meanwhile Zac lost 27 games in his first 2 seasons..

The 2015 bengals would absolutely obliterate this current team, geno Atkins in his prime would have a field day against this oline and the 2015 oline would dominate this dline..I do think awuzie would hold his own against a.j but you still had Marvin Jones, mo sanu and gio out of the backfield..

Kinda tough to make that comparison, as the league has changed so much in regard to player safety.  For all we know, 6 of the 2015 Bengal defenders might have been DQed for multiple PFs by halftime in today's league.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-19-2022, 06:45 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Zac Taylor has never truly earned the opportunity he's been afforded;Marvin on the other hand had to earn his way thru the ranks..Marvin took over a 2-14 team and went 8-8 right away in a division that fielded 2 playoff teams, meanwhile Zac lost 27 games in his first 2 seasons..

The 2015 bengals would absolutely obliterate this current team, geno Atkins in his prime would have a field day against this oline and the 2015 oline would dominate this dline..I do think awuzie would hold his own against a.j but you still had Marvin Jones, mo sanu and gio out of the backfield..