Zac just isn't learning

[Nepa]

I thought yesterday was another well-called offensive game. And the fact that the Bengals are one of the teams with the fewest penalties in the league (dropped from 1st to third 3rd after yesterday's 6 penalties) suggests a well-disciplined team.

[Sled21]

(11-21-2022, 01:06 PM)Nepa Wrote: I thought yesterday was another well-called offensive game. And the fact that the Bengals are one of the teams with the fewest penalties in the league (dropped from 1st to third 3rd after yesterday's 6 penalties) suggests a well-disciplined team.

Well disciplined on and off the field, and although we tend to whine about depth we see backups coming in and performing all across the roster. 

[higgy100]

(11-21-2022, 12:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Man, we are really lowering our standards now. Excluding sacks and the time killing runs like you mentioned, Cincinnati averaged....3.2 yards per carry. That would be good for 31st in the league. It was an absolutely awful day running the ball, no matter how you spin it. 

LOL.Sure, it's very low standards if you just want to look at it being black and white but I would hope you would understand with all of your posts that each game warrants usage of various assets to win that game. 5 of the top 10 leading rushing teams in the NFL in 2022 are sub. 500 in record and the top 3 teams all have running QB's that damn near lead their team in rushing and can go for 70 yards any play.You want Cinci. to resort to running the ball when we know it's a weakness to become another sub .500 team? Would you like to be the Browns with their great running attack that also comes with a 3-7 record?

2 other teams in Philly and Buffalo that are in the top 10 have running QB's that gets damn near get 50-60 ypg. themselves. You see where this is going? Cinci. is resorted to using the short pass as their running game the same way NE did for several years. Again, the Bengals ran 7x out of 17 for 4 yards or more with 2-3 that were conversions into 1st downs. Would I like to see more balance? Absolutely,but give me effective running over being a top 10 team if it's taking the ball out of JB's hands and the top receiving team in football.

[Sled21]

(11-21-2022, 01:27 PM)higgy100 Wrote: LOL.Sure, it's very low standards if you just want to look at it being black and white but I would hope you would understand with all of your posts that each game warrants usage of various assets to win that game. 5 of the top 10 leading rushing teams in the NFL in 2022 are sub. 500 in record and the top 3 teams all have running QB's that damn near lead their team in rushing and can go for 70 yards any play.You want Cinci. to resort to running the ball when we know it's a weakness to become another sub .500 team? Would you like to be the Browns with their great running attack that also comes with a 3-7 record?

2 other teams in Philly and Buffalo that are in the top 10 have running QB's that gets damn near get 50-60 ypg. themselves. You see where this is going? Cinci. is resorted to using the short pass as their running game the same way NE did for several years. Again, the Bengals ran 7x out of 17 for 4 yards or more with 2-3 that were conversions into 1st downs.

Exactly. I really don't care how many yards we run for, it all depends on the opponent. Watching Mixon run against Carolina was fun. Watching Perine catch 3 tds against Shitsburgh was fun. As long as we're winning, I don't care if it's through the air or on the ground. The gameplan has to be designed for the opponent of the week.

[KillerGoose]

(11-21-2022, 01:27 PM)higgy100 Wrote: LOL.Sure, it's very low standards if you just want to look at it being black and white but I would hope you would understand with all of your posts that each game warrants usage of various assets to win that game. 5 of the top 10 leading rushing teams in the NFL in 2022 are sub. 500 in record and the top 3 teams all have running QB's that damn near lead their team in rushing and can go for 70 yards any play.You want Cinci. to resort to running the ball when we know it's a weakness to become another sub .500 team? Would you like to be the Browns with their great running attack that also comes with a 3-7 record?

2 other teams in Philly and Buffalo that are in the top 10 have running QB's that gets damn near get 50-60 ypg. themselves. You see where this is going? Cinci. is resorted to using the short pass as their running game the same way NE did for several years. Again, the Bengals ran 7x out of 17 for 4 yards or more with 2-3 that were conversions into 1st downs.

I know reading comprehension may be difficult sometimes, but I never said anything like this. I never even implied this. I said the running game stunk. That's about it. This team goes where Burrow takes them, I have been adamant about this. Running game success doesn't correlate well to team success. I'm well aware of that. 

Quote:Again, the Bengals ran 7x out of 17 for 4 yards or more with 2-3 that were conversions into 1st downs.

Again, the Bengals averaged 3.2 yards per carry on the aforementioned runs. That sucks. Oh, they had seven runs of more than four yards? Awesome. Know what that means? Ten runs of less than four yards. 

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2022, 12:45 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Bengals had 7 runs for more than 4 yards out of 20 rushes (24 total but Burrow had 4 rushes) and the last 3 rushes were right into the line to force the Steelers to use their TO's. So it's really 7 runs out of 17 that went for 4 or more yards.That's far from abysmal and plenty effective enough going against a team that loaded the box the entire game to get pressure on JB.

KillerGoose is funny. I said they were just successful enough. I understand his frustration and I share it but they have to try it for their RPO and PA. It wasn’t good but it surely wasn’t abysmal.

[Bengalholic]

Since starting 4-24-1, Zac is 21-13. 

I haven't always been a big supporter of Zac's...but I do think he's growing and evolving as a HC, and he's trending in the right direction. He's still got his issues for sure, but I'm a lot more confident in him than I was coming out of the bye last year. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2022, 02:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Since starting 4-24-1, Zac is 21-13. 

I haven't always been a big supporter of Zac's...but I do think he's growing and evolving as a HC, and he's trending in the right direction. He's still got his issues for sure, but I'm a lot more confident in him than I was coming out of the bye last year. 

Maybe we should just listen to the players when they tell us the scheme, plan, and calls are fine and execution is the issue.  







Seriously though, I had more confidence in him last year around the bye than most. I had doubts going into last season though. I also don't like his decision to not play the oline in preseason this season.

Other than that, I've been pretty pleased with him since beating Shitsburgh with Ryan Finley.....lol.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2022, 01:31 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly. I really don't care how many yards we run for, it all depends on the opponent. Watching Mixon run against Carolina was fun. Watching Perine catch 3 tds against Shitsburgh was fun. As long as we're winning, I don't care if it's through the air or on the ground. The gameplan has to be designed for the opponent of the week.

This.

[Luvnit2]

(11-21-2022, 03:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Maybe we should just listen to the players when they tell us the scheme, plan, and calls are fine and execution is the issue.  







Seriously though, I had more confidence in him last year around the bye than most. I had doubts going into last season though. I also don't like his decision to not play the oline in preseason this season.

Other than that, I've been pretty pleased with him since beating Shitsburgh with Ryan Finley.....lol.

I thought sitting the OL in preseason was a huge mistake at the time also. I get sitting Burrow, i don't think many of us knew the toll the burst of his appendix and then infection impacted Joe. He was obviously not 100% the first few weeks of the season.

As for Zac, i am not an expert just a fan so don't understand some of the play calling which frustrates me, but overall I agree ZT is getting better and his teams are well disciplined and trained well on the rules and thus don't commit a lot of penalties.

We have a killer schedule the last 7 games, tough home and road games. Let's see how they do, so far doing pretty well without Chase for 3 games and our shut down CB out for the year.

The DL needs to step up pressure to help the back end of our defense. The OL needs to continue to progress, give Joe time and he can light up defenses.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-21-2022, 12:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the offense w/o Chase and Mixon looks awfully good. Being able to run the ball is critical. They were just good enough yesterday to compliment the passing game. The OL to me is all the difference in the world. I think they are going to get even better. We play 7 more games. If we can beat Tenn. on Sunday we have to finish 3-3 to get to 10 wins. That was where I thought we’d reach. Far cry from where we were headed. But I’m shockingly not conceding any losses. This team is capable of beating anybody

Completely agree, this game wasn't as close as the score indicates. 

Terrible refs unlike the first game where we played these bastids. We already beat the Titans in the Playoffs, we can
beat them again next Sunday even if they are rested up from a mini bye. We have Reader back who should be even 
more healed up by this game. We might have Chase back etc.

I see us going on a run now. Hope Mixon's concussion isn't bad, he proved me wrong in this thread a couple weeks 
back so I have flipped the script on him, he still has vision. Perine had a great game catching the ball out of the back 
field which is awesome. Love what I saw the last couple games from the OL as well. Volson and Jonah had a few bad
plays same as La'el but they are all getting better.

(11-21-2022, 01:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This whole "Zac Taylor just isn't learning" thing is a bit confusing to me. His first season was 2/14. His 2nd season was 4-11 (Total injury devastated defense that year). His 3rd season was 10-7 and the Super Bowl. So far this year, the team sits at 6-4. If that's not progression, then what is it? Not to mention he's what 3-1 or 4-1 against the hated Stealers?

Completely agree, he is learning, this season is complete proof of that once again.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-21-2022, 01:27 PM)higgy100 Wrote: LOL.Sure, it's very low standards if you just want to look at it being black and white but I would hope you would understand with all of your posts that each game warrants usage of various assets to win that game. 5 of the top 10 leading rushing teams in the NFL in 2022 are sub. 500 in record and the top 3 teams all have running QB's that damn near lead their team in rushing and can go for 70 yards any play.You want Cinci. to resort to running the ball when we know it's a weakness to become another sub .500 team? Would you like to be the Browns with their great running attack that also comes with a 3-7 record?

2 other teams in Philly and Buffalo that are in the top 10 have running QB's that gets damn near get 50-60 ypg. themselves. You see where this is going? Cinci. is resorted to using the short pass as their running game the same way NE did for several years. Again, the Bengals ran 7x out of 17 for 4 yards or more with 2-3 that were conversions into 1st downs. Would I like to see more balance? Absolutely,but give me effective running over being a top 10 team if it's taking the ball out of JB's hands and the top receiving team in football.

Fantastic post Higgy with perspective. Using the passing game as an extension of the running game is our deal.

If we are going to just criticize our running game when we are trying to make the stealers use time outs at the end of 
the game that doesn't make much sense to me. Those 3 TD's to Perine were extensions of the running game. Use them
if we want to keep these things in perspective. Some people just like to complain no matter what.

(11-21-2022, 02:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Since starting 4-24-1, Zac is 21-13. 

I haven't always been a big supporter of Zac's...but I do think he's growing and evolving as a HC, and he's trending in the right direction. He's still got his issues for sure, but I'm a lot more confident in him than I was coming out of the bye last year. 

Same, great post Holic and damn I love that sig lol 

JOE IS PUMPED!!!

(11-21-2022, 03:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Maybe we should just listen to the players when they tell us the scheme, plan, and calls are fine and execution is the issue.  







Seriously though, I had more confidence in him last year around the bye than most. I had doubts going into last season though. I also don't like his decision to not play the oline in preseason this season.

Other than that, I've been pretty pleased with him since beating Shitsburgh with Ryan Finley.....lol.

Exactly the same thoughts Wyche.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2022, 01:06 PM)Nepa Wrote: I thought yesterday was another well-called offensive game. And the fact that the Bengals are one of the teams with the fewest penalties in the league (dropped from 1st to third 3rd after yesterday's 6 penalties) suggests a well-disciplined team.

We've been one of the least penalized teams since Zac took over.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-21-2022, 12:24 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Yep

there are a lot of good teams left on the schedule, yet the Bengals are a good team as well. 

Sometimes we are too busy nitpicking to even notice. 

Yep. Don't look now, but they're 6-2 since that horrific start. 

I believe there are only 3 other teams with more wins since then. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2022, 03:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought sitting the OL in preseason was a huge mistake at the time also. I get sitting Burrow, i don't think many of us knew the toll the burst of his appendix and then infection impacted Joe. He was obviously not 100% the first few weeks of the season.

As for Zac, i am not an expert just a fan so don't understand some of the play calling which frustrates me, but overall I agree ZT is getting better and his teams are well disciplined and trained well on the rules and thus don't commit a lot of penalties.

We have a killer schedule the last 7 games, tough home and road games. Let's see how they do, so far doing pretty well without Chase for 3 games and our shut down CB out for the year.

The DL needs to step up pressure to help the back end of our defense. The OL needs to continue to progress, give Joe time and he can light up defenses.

I'm not an expert either....but I've read how this offense works. No one seems to want to acknowledge it, but Joe Burrow calls most of the plays. The staff sends in two that he can choose from and an audible I do believe. Burrow has the freedom to pick based on pre snap reads. Some of the time, the plays sent in are not the best based on timing....coaches' fault. Sometimes Joe misreads the defense......his fault. We, as fans, don't know for sure about which is which. That's why, as the seasons wear on, the play calling "gets better". You have a young QB learning, and frankly a young play caller/HC gaining experience as he goes too. I don't understand why some people expect some savant from the word go. There will be hiccups along the way. 

It's like some fans think Bill Belichick just came into the league as Darth Hoodie, lol. He started out fetching water more or less. The younger the coach, the more growing into the position there is.

Again, I'm no expert by any means, but there were glimpses in year two (year one was a complete dumpster fire) that give me a little hope for Zac. I recognized what the play should look.like if anyone could block. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-05-2022, 06:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I saw some breakdowns of game earlier in the year where it did appear Mixon missed the whole. But I've also seen since positive runs where Mixon set up his blocking very well by drawing the defender into the blocker and making a nice cut. If we hadn't literally seen this exact same struggles with Mixon and then he turns it on later in the season I would be 100 percent it is him. But it may just be the blocking scheme. We had a 2 game stretch where he and the OL seemed to be working very well together. Then these last 2 it's been back to struggling so I'm not sure what the culprit is at the moment. Again it could be Mixon but Zac and Co. have proved in the past to struggle with run play design or scheme. Also not sure what's up with Chris Evans. Not necessarily worried about him not getting many carries a game but I can't understand why we refuse to get him involved in the passing game. This is the kind of stubbornness that really concerns me about Zac and why I think it might be scheme over Mixon.

Are you forgetting when Mixon did this exact same thing in 2018 under Marvin Lewis, or nah?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-21-2022, 04:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm not an expert either....but I've read how this offense works. No one seems to want to acknowledge it, but Joe Burrow calls most of the plays. The staff sends in two that he can choose from and an audible I do believe. Burrow has the freedom to pick based on pre snap reads. Some of the time, the plays sent in are not the best based on timing....coaches' fault. Sometimes Joe misreads the defense......his fault. We, as fans, don't know for sure about which is which. That's why, as the seasons wear on, the play calling "gets better". You have a young QB learning, and frankly a young play caller/HC gaining experience as he goes too. I don't understand why some people expect some savant from the word go. There will be hiccups along the way. 

It's like some fans think Bill Belichick just came into the league as Darth Hoodie, lol. He started out fetching water more or less. The younger the coach, the more growing into the position there is.

Again, I'm no expert by any means, but there were glimpses in year two (year one was a complete dumpster fire) that give me a little hope for Zac. I recognized what the play should look.like if anyone could block. 

Well said. Zac being young along with everything you say here Wyche really has me optimistic about the rest of the season.

Burrow loves empty sets and he loves using the RB in the passing game as an extension of the running game. He is learning 
same as Zac and the entire staff which is pretty young. If I was another one of these teams we play the rest of the season I 
would be nervous. No one wants to face this team right now, no one.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2022, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree, this game wasn't as close as the score indicates. 

Terrible refs unlike the first game where we played these bastids. We already beat the Titans in the Playoffs, we can
beat them again next Sunday even if they are rested up from a mini bye. We have Reader back who should be even 
more healed up by this game. We might have Chase back etc.

I see us going on a run now. Hope Mixon's concussion isn't bad, he proved me wrong in this thread a couple weeks 
back so I have flipped the script on him, he still has vision. Perine had a great game catching the ball out of the back 
field which is awesome. Love what I saw the last couple games from the OL as well. Volson and Jonah had a few bad
plays same as La'el but they are all getting better.


Completely agree, he is learning, this season is complete proof of that once again.

LC was night and day better against Watt. TJ is going to make plays regardless, he's that good, but I thought La'el looked MUCH better yesterday than he did week 1. Jonah is getting a little better each week, maybe it's because the knee is improving. Volson had a couple of whiffs, but overall he was better too. Improvement is important.....and they are doing that.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-05-2022, 03:29 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah we made it to the superbowl last year but we had one of the worst offensive playoff outputs to ever make it to the superbowl. It was the defense that did most of the heavy lifting and with the injuries piling up on that side of the ball we are not making it to the superbowl. I feel like Zac came into this season like he is a championship caliber play caller and is finding out that he's closer to the 20-36-1 his record shows. The players play tough for Taylor now whether that's do to the caliber of men they are or Taylor being a players coach or a bit of both. I think the call on Taylor will be if he's able to look in the mirror this off-season and get someone in here to run the offense. 

Let’s see:

1. Points per game #3
2. Yards per game #7
3. Yards per point #4
4. Points per play #7
5. Redzone TD scoring % #1
6. Offensive TD per game #3
7. Offensive Completion % #3
8. Yds per passing attempt #6
9. Penalties per game #3
10. Turnover Margin #8

Looks pretty good to me

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2022, 04:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said. Zac being young along with everything you say here Wyche really has me optimistic about the rest of the season.

Burrow loves empty sets and he loves using the RB in the passing game as an extension of the running game. He is learning 
same as Zac and the entire staff which is pretty young. If I was another one of these teams we play the rest of the season I 
would be nervous. No one wants to face this team right now, no one.

Right on Nate, our oldest coordinator is Sweet Lou, obviously. I think his experience is showing now that we have improved the talent on that side of the ball. Losing Chido, in my opinion, is bigger than losing Ja'Marr for a few weeks. Losing a shut down corner and replacing him with a rookie is tough. Yet, Lou has switched up things again to accommodate. They're not as good without 22, but they can still play well enough to keep us in it. The offense has to step up, and aside from Cleveland, they've done that recently. They're getting stronger each week, and that's WITHOUT Uno.