Why didn't the Bengals add a proven RB in the offseason

[THE PISTONS]

(08-25-2023, 12:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And then he had a disappointing year, I thought Mixon would of been a top 5 RB last year and he was clearly not that.

Instead, he lacked urgency in hitting holes, lost his vision, balance and was bad in pass protection for all year and had 1 great 
game against the Panthers that inflated his numbers to make them not look so bad. We will see if he is more consistent this year
and he improves on all the things listed above but it is a little late in his career to learn new tricks.

He tends to have 2-3 big games that make his stats look decent each year.

His broken tackle numbers have recently been bad too.

He is what he is. Hea a Top 15/20 back...but not a top 5/10 back. There's stats too that show RBs start to slow down at 27/28...which he's approaching.

On the converse, our line has been bad. But, it's a chicken and egg argument.

[THE PISTONS]

As for why the Bengals didn't shop for a better backup. Same as backup QB. $$$

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-27-2023, 11:19 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He tends to have 2-3 big games that make his stats look decent each year.

His broken tackle numbers have recently been bad too.

He is what he is. Hea a Top 15/20 back...but not a top 5/10 back. There's stats too that show RBs start to slow down at 27/28...which he's approaching.

On the converse, our line has been bad. But, it's a chicken and egg argument.

(08-27-2023, 11:21 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As for why the Bengals didn't shop for a better backup. Same as backup QB. $$$

Mixon is good enough for now. Not saying they won't replace him in the future but he's what we got and where we are going for now. Up to this point, Mixon hasn't really been the problem. The problem has been the Trenches and once that's settled, then they can look at other positions harder.

I would look for the Bengals to see what they have in Jones first, then possibly draft another RB next year. IF one they like falls their way in the draft, otherwise, stick with Mixon another year. There is no rush to replace him and there is always the possibility we retain him for another couple years depending on what Mixon and Jones shows us this year and next.

We are not a RUN first team, we are a Pass first team and we need a RB that can get a few yards here and there with the run but most importantly, catch passes.

We have a salary cap just like any other team and RB is on the low end of the totem pole.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 01:49 AM)TheFan Wrote: Or it indicates the RB market is completely different than when they gave Mixon his original deal. It was beneficial to both parties to keep Mixon with the team on a slightly lower salary. 

Mixon may not be the Belle of the ball but the Bengals obviously don't think he's a cave troll either.

“Hey, Joe, we really, really like you. That’s why we are going to pay you 40% less than we agreed to pay you.”

I don’t think so.

[George Cantstandya]

(08-27-2023, 02:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: “Hey, Joe, we really, really like you. That’s why we are going to pay you 40% less than we agreed to pay you.”

I don’t think so.

I guess that is what I don't get about this whole Mixon pay cut thing if the team was locked into him.  Did it go something like this?

Bengals:  Hi Joe we are going to need you to take a significant pay cut.

JM and or his Agent:  Or what?

Bengals:  Umm we really like you.  So nothing if you don't. We just want you to take that big pay cut. 

JM and or his Agent: Okay cut my pay by a huge amount.  Thanks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2023, 11:19 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He tends to have 2-3 big games that make his stats look decent each year.

His broken tackle numbers have recently been bad too.

He is what he is. Hea a Top 15/20 back...but not a top 5/10 back. There's stats too that show RBs start to slow down at 27/28...which he's approaching.

On the converse, our line has been bad. But, it's a chicken and egg argument.

True and breaking tackles is what the best RB's do well.

(08-27-2023, 12:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Mixon is good enough for now. Not saying they won't replace him in the future but he's what we got and where we are going for now. Up to this point, Mixon hasn't really been the problem. The problem has been the Trenches and once that's settled, then they can look at other positions harder.

I would look for the Bengals to see what they have in Jones first, then possibly draft another RB next year. IF one they like falls their way in the draft, otherwise, stick with Mixon another year. There is no rush to replace him and there is always the possibility we retain him for another couple years depending on what Mixon and Jones shows us this year and next.

We are not a RUN first team, we are a Pass first team and we need a RB that can get a few yards here and there with the run but most importantly, catch passes.

We have a salary cap just like any other team and RB is on the low end of the totem pole.

Who is this Jones at RB?

You mean Chase Brown?

The most important thing we need in our pass first Offense is a RB that can pass protect as well as catch passes.

Mixon has had a problem in pass protection and also as noted doesn't break tackles well. Hope he improves in these aspects this year.

We will see.

(08-27-2023, 02:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: “Hey, Joe, we really, really like you. That’s why we are going to pay you 40% less than we agreed to pay you.”

I don’t think so.

Exactly, also if he didn't take the pay cut he would of been cut. Happy he took the pay cut and is still around and hope he plays well.

Zac says the right things about all his players. The praise Pollack has put on Mixon raised my eyebrows more than what Zac said.

Pollack said Mixon has worked harder this season in all aspects to improve his game, Mixon knows he didn't have the best year last 
year besides the Panthers game. Hope we see a lot more consistency this season from him in running the ball and trying to pass 
protect. If so and the OL is much better he could have a great year and shut people like me up, that would be awesome.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2023, 02:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True and breaking tackles is what the best RB's do well.


Who is this Jones at RB?

You mean Chase Brown?

The most important thing we need in our pass first Offense is a RB that can pass protect as well as catch passes.

Mixon has had a problem in pass protection and also as noted doesn't break tackles well. Hope he improves in these aspects this year.

We will see.


Exactly, also if he didn't take the pay cut he would of been cut. Happy he took the pay cut and is still around and hope he plays well.

Zac says the right things about all his players. The praise Pollack has put on Mixon raised my eyebrows more than what Zac said.

Pollack said Mixon has worked harder this season in all aspects to improve his game, Mixon knows he didn't have the best year last 
year besides the Panthers game. Hope we see a lot more consistency this season from him in running the ball and trying to pass 
protect. If so and the OL is much better he could have a great year and shut people like me up, that would be awesome.

By accepting the reduced salary he was given hope/assurances for next year. Had he not he wouldn’t for sure been here next year.

[impactplaya]

I'd like to see more 20 plus yard runs out of this offense.
When was the last time Mixon broke off a run for 40 plus
That's the one thing lacking from this offense
Not enough big time chunk runs

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 02:56 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: By accepting the reduced salary he was given hope/assurances for next year. Had he not he wouldn’t for sure been here next year.

This is pure speculation.

At the beginning of the year, Mixon had the assurance of two years remaining on his contract. Now, he has the assurance of two years remaining on his contract. But, with approximately 40% less in his pocket.

His dead cap hit for this year, if the Bengals release him, has increased. So he bought himself this year with the pay cut. His dead money next season is only $2.75M. The Bengals save cap space by cutting him next year.

After Mixon agreed to the pay cut even you stated he might be released next year because you straddle both sides of every fence.

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 02:33 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I guess that is what I don't get about this whole Mixon pay cut thing if the team was locked into him.  Did it go something like this?

Bengals:  Hi Joe we are going to need you to take a significant pay cut.

JM and or his Agent:  Or what?

Bengals:  Umm we really like you.  So nothing if you don't.  We just want you to take that big pay cut. 

JM and or his Agent: Okay cut my pay by a huge amount.  Thanks.

I mean just use common sense. You can work at a company, do good work, and they like you. If your position is being devauled and across companies people are being paid less or asked to take paycuts, it would make sense for you to do the same or be let go. Being let go doesn't benefit you or you company so you'll take a little less to still have a job, while being well compensated, and the business keeps an employee they like and thinks does a good job while not way over paying beyond what the market price is. 

The Bengals could have completely cut him and signed someone else but they chose not to. Your reasoning is they kept him because they don't want him? Or is it more likely they like him but at a fair price?

If all the QBs this year signed for 40-45mil do you think the Bengals would randomly sign Burrow for 55? No. The QB market increases so QBs get paid more. If the RB market boomed and people were making way more than Mixon would they have still asked him to take a paycut? I highly doubt it. The RB market is not increasing and even going down, so it makes sense to ask him to be within market value.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2023, 05:06 PM)TheFan Wrote: I mean just use common sense. You can work at a company, do good work, and they like you. If your position is being devauled and across companies people are being paid less or asked to take paycuts, it would make sense for you to do the same or be let go. Being let go doesn't benefit you or you company so you'll take a little less to still have a job, while being well compensated, and the business keeps an employee they like and thinks does a good job while not way over paying beyond what the market price is. 

The Bengals could have completely cut him and signed someone else but they chose not to. Your reasoning is they kept him because they don't want him? Or is it more likely they like him but at a fair price?

If all the QBs this year signed for 40-45mil do you think the Bengals would randomly sign Burrow for 55? No. The QB market increases so QBs get paid more. If the RB market boomed and people were making way more than Mixon would they have still asked him to take a paycut? I highly doubt it. The RB market is not increasing and even going down, so it makes sense to ask him to be within market value.

Mixon wants to go nowhere. He likes the players, the city, coaches, and ownership/Mgt. And it’s mutual. His price wasn’t conducive to the health of the club. We will see where it goes next year but like I said earlier Joe by doing this helped himself for ‘24. Had he refused he wouldn’t have been cut but he’d had little shot remaining a Bengal in ‘24. Depending on his year and the other backs will determine ‘24. Based on history if Joe has a solid year he will finish his contract and the Bengals draft a RB in ‘24 or ‘25 depending on how the draft falls.

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 05:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Mixon wants to go nowhere. He likes the players, the city, coaches, and ownership/Mgt. And it’s mutual. His price wasn’t conducive to the health of the club. We will see where it goes next year but like I said earlier Joe by doing this helped himself for ‘24. Had he refused he wouldn’t have been cut but he’d had little shot remaining a Bengal in ‘24. Depending on his year and the other backs will determine ‘24. Based on history if Joe has a solid year he will finish his contract and the Bengals draft a RB in ‘24 or ‘25 depending on how the draft falls.

I don't disagree. But I don't think we can for sure say he wouldn't have been cut. I think he and the Bengals had an understanding that he likely would be taking a paycut to bring him into a fair value for both parties. And that's a piece of the puzzle for why they weren't looking outside for RBs. 

I agree he wants to be here and I think the Bengals want him to be here. 

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2023, 05:43 PM)TheFan Wrote: I don't disagree. But I don't think we can for sure say he wouldn't have been cut. I think he and the Bengals had an understanding that he likely would be taking a paycut to bring him into a fair value for both parties. And that's a piece of the puzzle for why they weren't looking outside for RBs. 

I agree he wants to be here and I think the Bengals want him to be here. 

His dead cap space was 5 million I think. Cutting him this late would have left them few options. Sure there was Cook and Zeke but combining Mixon’s dead cap and their salary puts them back at square one. Mixon knows the offense and let’s face it the Bengals are trying to keep the team intact as much as possible. If they made any mistakes it was not done sooner. I’d expect that Mike Brown had to be convinced to make Joe take a reduction. Mike is old school I made a deal and I’m going to stand by it.

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 05:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: His dead cap space was 5 million I think. Cutting him this late would have left them few options. Sure there was Cook and Zeke but combining Mixon’s dead cap and their salary puts them back at square one. Mixon knows the offense and let’s face it the Bengals are trying to keep the team intact as much as possible. If they made any mistakes it was not done sooner. I’d expect that Mike Brown had to be convinced to make Joe take a reduction. Mike is old school I made a deal and I’m going to stand by it.

That's why I think there was more of an understanding. Especially with how early Mixon already said he'd be willing to rework his contract. 

[George Cantstandya]

(08-27-2023, 06:07 PM)TheFan Wrote:  Especially with how early Mixon already said he'd be willing to rework his contract. 

Got a source for this?  I did a Google search for anything Mixon and contract related from January, 1, 2023 to July 13h of this year, the day before he took a pay cut, and can't find a single quote where Mixon stated early, that being before he took the pay cut, that he was willing to rework his contract.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 05:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Mixon wants to go nowhere. He likes the players, the city, coaches, and ownership/Mgt. And it’s mutual. 1) His price wasn’t conducive to the health of the club. We will see where it goes next year but like I said earlier Joe by doing this helped himself for ‘24. 2) Had he refused he wouldn’t have been cut but he’d had little shot remaining a Bengal in ‘24. 3) Depending on his year and the other backs will determine ‘24. Based on history 4) if Joe has a solid year he will finish his contract and the Bengals draft a RB in ‘24 or ‘25 depending on how the draft falls.

1) False. His contract was completely accounted for within the salary cap. His performance didn’t live up to his contract.

2) Giovanni Bernard is an example of what happens to players who they like, but refuse to take a pay cut when “asked.” Elizabeth Blackburn doesn’t play.

3) Despite the speculation of BS “assurances” you recognize this year determines Mixon’s future with the Bengals next year.

4) “If” he has a “solid year”. Doesn’t have anything to do with how much they do/do not like him or assurances. It’s about how he does on the field.

5) By the end of your statement you’ve contradicted yourself again.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 05:06 PM)TheFan Wrote: I mean just use common sense. You can work at a company, do good work, and they like you. If your position is being devauled and across companies people are being paid less or asked to take paycuts, it would make sense for you to do the same or be let go. Being let go doesn't benefit you or you company so you'll take a little less to still have a job, while being well compensated, and the business keeps an employee they like and thinks does a good job while not way over paying beyond what the market price is. 

The Bengals could have completely cut him and signed someone else but they chose not to. Your reasoning is they kept him because they don't want him? Or is it more likely they like him but at a fair price?

If all the QBs this year signed for 40-45mil do you think the Bengals would randomly sign Burrow for 55? No. The QB market increases so QBs get paid more. If the RB market boomed and people were making way more than Mixon would they have still asked him to take a paycut? I highly doubt it. The RB market is not increasing and even going down, so it makes sense to ask him to be within market value.

I would like to see your evidence to support this claim.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2023, 06:07 PM)TheFan Wrote: That's why I think there was more of an understanding. Especially with how early Mixon already said he'd be willing to rework his contract. 

You’d think so.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 05:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: His dead cap space was 5 million I think. Cutting him this late would have left them few options. Sure there was Cook and Zeke but combining Mixon’s dead cap and their salary puts them back at square one. Mixon knows the offense and let’s face it the Bengals are trying to keep the team intact as much as possible. If they made any mistakes it was not done sooner. I’d expect that Mike Brown had to be convinced to make Joe take a reduction. Mike is old school I made a deal and I’m going to stand by it.

It left Mixon with little options. Take a pay cut or try your luck on the open market. It’s doubtful Mixon would have even sniffed what the Bengals offered. Obviously, Mixon and his agent recognized that reality.

Based upon the salary cap management since 2019, I’m convinced Mike Brown has little to no involvement with salary cap decisions and thank God for that.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 06:07 PM)TheFan Wrote: That's why I think there was more of an understanding. Especially with how early Mixon already said he'd be willing to rework his contract. 

Any military veteran can tell you “understandings” aren’t worth the paper they aren’t printed on. If it ain’t in the contract it doesn’t exist.