The underlying truth of the matter.....

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2023, 01:12 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Then Burrow needs to learn to play QB with his back to the D at times. If Burrow is actually checking out of most of the same plays Zac is sending him that Jake IS running and Jake is marching down the field then our #1 QB needs to learn from our #2 QB and adjust his style of play. The O linemen aren't helping Jake up off his back like they were Burrow. I know, it's only 2 games but with the Browning led O this team looks sharp. If JB can't run and manage the O without running empty sets and not under center then he isn't the elite QB he is claimed to be.

You should have stopped right there.

[RegularGuy22]

(12-14-2023, 01:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You should have stopped right there.

But I didn't. So my last sentence isn't true?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2023, 01:25 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: But I didn't. So my last sentence isn't true?

Your whole post was hyperbole. Joe Burrow doesn’t need to “learn” anything from Jake Browning.

Some of you really need to go back and rewatch the 9ers game. Joe was under center a bunch in that one and he played great.

[KillerGoose]

(12-14-2023, 01:25 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: But I didn't. So my last sentence isn't true?

It's definitely not. A lot of this is just recency bias and people having no idea what they are talking about. Jake Browning has been in the shotgun 72% of the time in these two games. Burrow was in shotgun 62% of the time for the entire duration of 2021 and 78% for 2022. Burrow is perfectly capable of playing under center and being very successful and Browning isn't under center as much as people think. The "all shotgun" offense is an anomaly and isolated to this year due to Burrow's injury. 

[RegularGuy22]

Sure he can. Nobody knows it all no matter what their field. Yes, the 49's game, I watched it. Joe ran what looked more like the current O with him being under center more with great results so yes, he can do it, he just needs to do it more often.

If those numbers % of under center are correct it sure doesn't seem like it. I am aware Burrow is capable of running under center and just would like to see him do it more.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-14-2023, 01:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Your whole post was hyperbole. Joe Burrow doesn’t need to “learn” anything from Jake Browning.

Some of you really need to go back and rewatch the 9ers game. Joe was under center a bunch in that one and he played great.

As Cally said, they had been working on a bunch of that during camp. Then Joe went down. I think the 9er game points to what they had been installing during the summer. I'm sure Joe wouldn't be doing it as much as Browning, but he'd be doing it more than he had. I think one thing Burrow may take from watching is handing off more on RPOs....and maybe not checking out of runs as often. Other than that, I think this is similar to what Burrow would be running if he was still playing. He'd throw more, but it'd be similar, imo. They were doing a pretty good job of mixing it up at Baltimore before the wrist snapped. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-14-2023, 01:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Your whole post was hyperbole. Joe Burrow doesn’t need to “learn” anything from Jake Browning.

Some of you really need to go back and rewatch the 9ers game. Joe was under center a bunch in that one and he played great.

To add on a little .... it also shows that the offensive staff WAS adding wrinkles to the offense to keep defenses guessing. That just got shot all to shit with the calf. Maybe these guys are better than given credit for. The Colts had no clue what was coming. 

[Soonerpeace]

(12-14-2023, 01:12 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Then Burrow needs to learn to play QB with his back to the D at times. If Burrow is actually checking out of most of the same plays Zac is sending him that Jake IS running and Jake is marching down the field then our #1 QB needs to learn from our #2 QB and adjust his style of play. The O linemen aren't helping Jake up off his back like they were Burrow. I know, it's only 2 games but with the Browning led O this team looks sharp. If JB can't run and manage the O without running empty sets and not under center then he isn't the elite QB he is claimed to be.

Joe checking out of plays is overblown. He not under center by design because he doesn’t like it. What I think people aren’t getting is that the team is playing better and Higgins is healthy and the OL much much better

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-14-2023, 02:48 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Joe checking out of plays is overblown. He not under center by design because he doesn’t like it. What I think people aren’t getting is that the team is playing better and Higgins is healthy and the OL much much better

Joe better start liking it. Don't understand why he doesn't like winning lol

[grampahol]

(12-11-2023, 02:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I hate conspiracy theories generally. But the I don't buy Zac Taylor as a play caller in me has a bit of a conspiracy for our recent success. Maybe Taylor isn't calling the plays or has been given the plays he can chose from. We had 10 days before the Steelers game yet we didn't see any of these changes. After that game sure you had tape and a whole game experience to say what Browning could and couldn't do. But he's been here all camp and season so we really had no idea what he was or wasn't capable of? Seems odd then with the quick turn around. Then someone in the organization said we are pulling this from you but we'll let you save face and not say anything public. We'll even let you design a couple of trick plays. Then we all saw how that turned out and even that got taken from him. I am mostly kidding. But this is why I don't like the committee approach. I get it that if things are going good why does it matter but we honestly don't know if there is an x factor to recent coaching/playcalling changes.

Maybe they replaced the AI Zacbot with a live Zac..or the other way around. Ever think about that? Conspiracy theories be damned! 

[Soonerpeace]

(12-14-2023, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Joe better start liking it. Don't understand why he doesn't like winning lol

Posters here try to dissect everything too much. To be efficient they just need to execute whether in or out of shotgun.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2023, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Joe better start liking it. Don't understand why he doesn't like winning lol

But he did win a whole lot of games over the past couple years.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-14-2023, 03:30 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Posters here try to dissect everything too much. To be efficient they just need to execute whether in or out of shotgun.

True. But that is what a message board is for lol

(12-14-2023, 03:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But he did win a whole lot of games over the past couple years.

Oh yeah, cannot argue with success, just have to adapt.

[2MinutesHate]

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

Not that I think Burrow's injury was a good thing, but if Browning keeps winning with the same personnel and coaching, I think it may give Joe a chance for some reflection on what he brings to the team and how he can improve.  I mean, it's gotta feel good for Mixon/Brown to have plays specifically called for them and the for the OL to get a chance to really attack and punch back more often.

Perhaps I'm biased because I'm more of an old school fan that likes a good run game, screens and play-action passes where even the cameraman gets fooled here and there.  I'm not really thrilled over the RPO/sandlot style of offense that guys like Lamar do.  I do hate me some Ravens though.....
Not really a big fan over the empty sets either where you hold your breath after because it seems like the QB gets tagged every play.

After all the hate Frank Pollack has been given (by myself included), maybe, just maybe he ain't half bad.  This week is going to be a lot of fun to watch.
If we get a win against the Vikings, I think they go in and roll the Steelers asses the next week for an early Xmas present for all of us! 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-14-2023, 03:50 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Not that I think Burrow's injury was a good thing, but if Browning keeps winning with the same personnel and coaching, I think it may give Joe a chance for some reflection on what he brings to the team and how he can improve.  I mean, it's gotta feel good for Mixon/Brown to have plays specifically called for them and the for the OL to get a chance to really attack and punch back more often.

Perhaps I'm biased because I'm more of an old school fan that likes a good run game, screens and play-action passes where even the cameraman gets fooled here and there.  I'm not really thrilled over the RPO/sandlot style of offense that guys like Lamar do.  I do hate me some Ravens though.....
Not really a big fan over the empty sets either where you hold your breath after because it seems like the QB gets tagged every play.

After all the hate Frank Pollack has been given (by myself included), maybe, just maybe he ain't half bad.  This week is going to be a lot of fun to watch.
If we get a win against the Vikings, I think they go in and roll the Steelers asses the next week for an early Xmas present for all of us! 

Love it brother. Your post made me smile.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-14-2023, 03:50 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Not that I think Burrow's injury was a good thing, but if Browning keeps winning with the same personnel and coaching, I think it may give Joe a chance for some reflection on what he brings to the team and how he can improve.  I mean, it's gotta feel good for Mixon/Brown to have plays specifically called for them and the for the OL to get a chance to really attack and punch back more often.

Perhaps I'm biased because I'm more of an old school fan that likes a good run game, screens and play-action passes where even the cameraman gets fooled here and there.  I'm not really thrilled over the RPO/sandlot style of offense that guys like Lamar do.  I do hate me some Ravens though.....
Not really a big fan over the empty sets either where you hold your breath after because it seems like the QB gets tagged every play.

After all the hate Frank Pollack has been given (by myself included), maybe, just maybe he ain't half bad.  This week is going to be a lot of fun to watch.
If we get a win against the Vikings, I think they go in and roll the Steelers asses the next week for an early Xmas present for all of us! 

That's me as well and I know it. And I like you am not a big fan of basically constant shotgun sets and especially hate the empty shotgun sets. It's a part of the game now, I get it.. But don't let that be the only thing you do. It gives the defense to much of an advantage a lot of the time.

Mix in a good deal of under center, keep the defense guessing more.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-14-2023, 03:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Love it brother. Your post made me smile.

And like twominutes says I hope Joe Burrow and ZT are taking notes and learning there is another way. You can always learn.

I just very unsure that the Bengals can be all that they can be using so much shotgun/empty/RPO crap??

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-14-2023, 01:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's definitely not. A lot of this is just recency bias and people having no idea what they are talking about. Jake Browning has been in the shotgun 72% of the time in these two games. Burrow was in shotgun 62% of the time for the entire duration of 2021 and 78% for 2022. Burrow is perfectly capable of playing under center and being very successful and Browning isn't under center as much as people think. The "all shotgun" offense is an anomaly and isolated to this year due to Burrow's injury. 

We started going primarily shotgun after the 1st handful of games last year. So the 78% was really much higher for much of the year last year and not just something to help Burrows injury. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-14-2023, 01:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's definitely not. A lot of this is just recency bias and people having no idea what they are talking about. Jake Browning has been in the shotgun 72% of the time in these two games. Burrow was in shotgun 62% of the time for the entire duration of 2021 and 78% for 2022. Burrow is perfectly capable of playing under center and being very successful and Browning isn't under center as much as people think. The "all shotgun" offense is an anomaly and isolated to this year due to Burrow's injury. 

Also conversely is that 72% # for Browning the last 2 games? Or the 3 games he has been the starter. Because a against Pitt we had him running the offense we had been running and that could also be skewing the #s.

[Housh]

(12-14-2023, 04:15 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: We started going primarily shotgun after the 1st handful of games last year. So the 78% was really much higher for much of the year last year and not just something to help Burrows injury. 

Burrow likes SG


His ass needs to start liking under center lol


We are too scary when we can keep linebackers at bay due to screens and play actions


I feel like Jake hasn’t even been CLOSE to getting sacked these last games.



Iv always liked schemes where it’s 2 reads and run. I always felt the Burrow offense was a bit too hard because it not only demands on time reads but it also demands elite accuracy and demands elite processing of defenses. Every pass doesn’t have to be a tight window pass. You are allowed to have half field reads and plays where there’s only 2 reads. Our issue is every play has 4-5 reads and it puts pressure on Burrow to be elite.


When Burrow gets back we need to call waaaaay more plays where it’s “hey if these2 routes aren’t open just Check down or run.

It makes playing simple. Also WRs tend to run harder on those plays because they know they are getting the ball if they get open.

Keep the RPOs and add more to that.

Continue running

Continue screens to Chase Brown.


Half the pass plays we call should be “no thinking needed” plays, where you read 1-2 guys then throw or run