Frank Pollack back?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-09-2024, 06:02 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  
yay

I'm not blaming him for everything, but I have been underwhelmed with all involved with the OL for more than awhile, Pollack, Tobin, McNally, Taylor, Callahan and Brown.

I wanted the Bengals to trade the Joe Burrow pick to Carolina at 8 and then trade down again, picking up future first round picks with each trade down and then focus on OL. Not because I didn't have faith in Joe Burrow, I didn't have faith in the Bengals and I didn't want him to be Andrew Luck'd out of the league. So far, I'm neither right or wrong.

Here is the OL for Burrow's rookie season - Holdovers from 2019 at LG, C and RT
LT Jonah Williams - Fred Johnson - Hakeem Adeniji 2019 LT Andre Smith - John Jerry - Cordell Glenn each with 5 starts apiece
LG Michael Jordan - Xavier Su'a-Filo - Shaq Calhoun - Keaton Sutherland
C Trey Hopkins - Billy Price - BJ Finney
RG Alex Redmond - Quentin Spain 2019 RG John Miller 13 starts
RT Bobby Hart

Now let us look at their OL activity since Joe Burrow's knee injury.

2021
Reilly Rieff FA - I actually thought that he played great until injured, but maybe it was still from me suffering from a severe case of Bobby Hart
2nd round Carman
4th round Smith
6th round Hill

2022
Karras FA
Cappa FA
Collins FA
4th round Volson

2023
Brown FA

Only one o-lineman drafted in the last two years. I honestly think that they'll look at FA more than the draft to replace Williams at RT. FA is a crap shoot, but it's been a much more reliable crap shoot than their attempts at drafting and developing OL. Often, the Bengals like to fill almost every hole in FA before the draft to leave them with BPA. They may still go RT at 18, but it's a long time until draft day. Many players will rise and fall as the scouts and draftniks get more time to look at film on the guys that slipped through the cracks.

Who knows? Maybe D'Ante Smith or Jackson Carman will step up and claim RT. Not holding my breath on that one.

My biggest issue is the oline has been a problem since 2016. I'm certainly far from circling the wagons for Frank, but this problem predates him, and Zac for that matter. It's a front office problem to me at this point. I think people forget the downfall of Andy Dalton started opening day 2016. He was sacked seven times at NYJ. It went downhill fast from there. The alarming part is, this year's line is the best we've seen in quite some time.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-09-2024, 03:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sounds about right. Certainly was the case with John Ross.

To be fair, the coaches weren't right either. Marvin's side was wanting OJ Howard. 

We know Alexander was the one who pushed for Ogbuehi in 2015. Makes me wonder who the scouts were pushing for in 2015.

[Sled21]

Y'all are hammering Frank, and to tell you the truth I don't care if he comes back or not. The reality is, and this has been discussed ad nauseam on Sirius NFL radio, Offensive Line play has sucked all across the league the last couple of years. Due to the constraints of the NFLPA agreement, there are only about 7 padded practices where the Oline coach can actually coach. The rest of it is shorts football. It's not just hindering the Bengals line, it is working against every team. Players are going to have to take it upon themselves to find coaches in the off season to improve. So would I like a better line, sure, but I'm not sure replacing Pollack is some magic bullet like some of you seem to.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2024, 10:41 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Y'all are hammering Frank, and to tell you the truth I don't care if he comes back or not. The reality is, and this has been discussed ad nauseam on Sirius NFL radio, Offensive Line play has sucked all across the league the last couple of years. Due to the constraints of the NFLPA agreement, there are only about 7 padded practices where the Oline coach can actually coach. The rest of it is shorts football. It's not just hindering the Bengals line, it is working against every team. Players are going to have to take it upon themselves to find coaches in the off season to improve. So would I like a better line, sure, but I'm not sure replacing Pollack is some magic bullet like some of you seem to.

There's a few factors at play.... college offenses don't prepare OL like they used to, what you mentioned, and the pass rushers they block have gotten way beyond them in athletic ability. 

[casear2727]

(01-10-2024, 12:59 AM)TKUHL Wrote: He may have “improved” but look at his numbers against AFCN teams. It’s pathetic. If we can’t beat the teams in our own division, then what’s the point.

I think he has a long way to go, he did have a 77.5 vs the Steelers, I'm not sure he is starter quality but he did show improvement later in the season.  After the first 4 weeks he good only go up...

[THE PISTONS]

(01-10-2024, 11:22 AM)Wyche Wrote: There's a few factors at play.... college offenses don't prepare OL like they used to, what you mentioned, and the pass rushers they block have gotten way beyond them in athletic ability. 

Yep. Thus why teams like Wisconsin are an offensive line factory. The run old fashioned offenses and the guys get experience blocking in an NFL style.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

The OL wasn't the best this year that is for sure under Pollack. I would like a change, but it isn't the end of the world either if he is back.

There were flashes of good this year, especially on screen passes to Mixon and Chase Brown. There were some good games where we out
physically played some physical Defenses in the 49ers and such. But we need to be much better in our own Division. This last Browns game
we were playing against backups so cannot judge much off of it.

Would prefer to move on from Pollack and bring in an OL coach that can develop youth and help make vets better.

Under Pollack only Volson has developed a bit and it hasn't been to the quality I was hoping. The vets got worse under Pollack.

This is on him.

[jj22]

Pollack has the support of the FO. I'm not sure he is Zac's choice as they tried to force Zac to keep him initially and Zac didn't.

[NotBigzo]

(01-10-2024, 05:57 PM)jj22 Wrote: Pollack has the support of the FO. I'm not sure he is Zac's choice as they tried to force Zac to keep him initially and Zac didn't.

Zac's initial choice was much worse. 

[Housh]

Please Mike Brown step in

I respect that Mike gives full control to his staffs but damn bro, our o line hasn’t cut it and it’s really the only thing holding the offense back from being insane

[jj22]

(01-10-2024, 06:47 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Zac's initial choice was much worse. 

Was he "much". He didn't have the talent Pollack got, and I'd argue the gap between the two lines wasn't wide enough given the resources provided.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-10-2024, 06:55 PM)Housh Wrote: Please Mike Brown step in

I respect that Mike gives full control to his staffs but damn bro, our o line hasn’t cut it and it’s really the only thing holding the offense back from being insane

Uhh, What??  

[Shake n Blake]

(01-08-2024, 08:24 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac said today he expects all the staff back unless they get promotions.

Has Zac truly dumped anyone since he's been here? That wasn't leaving anyway?

We ranked 23rd in sacks per pass attempt and 22nd in yards per carry.

Those are bad enough on their own, but when you consider how much money and picks are invested in this line? That's abysmal.

We have 3 guys who started for Super Bowl teams. Plus a top 10 pick. There's no way we should be this bad, and tbh we should be top 10.

This reeks of old Bengals. We had some success, so stand pat. Keep everyone, even if they're a liability. We need better.

[J24]

The problem with the Offensive Line is that thier not meant to run the zone blocking scheme that Zac + Pollack want to run. The fact that the Coaching staff has made this O line work they way it has is a testament to how good of coaches they are. I realize this post will go as well as a 50 year old hooker on Epstien Island.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-10-2024, 10:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Has Zac truly dumped anyone since he's been here? That wasn't leaving anyway?

We ranked 23rd in sacks per pass attempt and 22nd in yards per carry.

Those are bad enough on their own, but when you consider how much money and picks are invested in this line? That's abysmal.

We have 3 guys who started for Super Bowl teams. Plus a top 10 pick. There's no way we should be this bad, and tbh we should be top 10.

This reeks of old Bengals. We had some success, so stand pat. Keep everyone, even if they're a liability. We need better.

We were 5th last year in rush yards per attempt. But indeed we were #30 this year. #17 in ‘21.

[KillerGoose]

(01-10-2024, 10:23 PM)J24 Wrote: The problem with the Offensive Line is that thier not meant to run the zone blocking scheme that Zac + Pollack want to run. The fact that the Coaching staff has made this O line work they way it has is a testament to how good of coaches they are. I realize  this post will go as well as a 50 year old hooker on Epstien Island.

To be fair, they aren't running wide zone as their base run anymore. They have switched to duos as their base from what I can tell, which is generating double teams and getting vertical. Of course, they still run some IZ and OZ but it's primarily gap, and duos at that. 

[J24]

(01-11-2024, 12:09 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: To be fair, they aren't running wide zone as their base run anymore. They have switched to duos as their base from what I can tell, which is generating double teams and getting vertical. Of course, they still run some IZ and OZ but it's primarily gap, and duos at that. 

Yep; they tossed out the wide zone scheme out before the first Ravens game last season (2022).

[*Synric*]

My biggest pet peeve about the offense this year was the amount of Chase in the backfield running orbits motions. It worked late in 2022 as a gimmick but as a 5 snaps a game part of the offense... not thanks. I'm not saying do away with the rb motions but I'd like to see a RB while Chase is running the deep playaction off those motions.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-10-2024, 10:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Has Zac truly dumped anyone since he's been here? That wasn't leaving anyway?

We ranked 23rd in sacks per pass attempt and 22nd in yards per carry.

Those are bad enough on their own, but when you consider how much money and picks are invested in this line? That's abysmal.

We have 3 guys who started for Super Bowl teams. Plus a top 10 pick. There's no way we should be this bad, and tbh we should be top 10.

This reeks of old Bengals. We had some success, so stand pat. Keep everyone, even if they're a liability. We need better.

I don't think he really dumped anyone. I know there's been talk by multiple reporters who have said that the FO forced him to get rid of Turner. Pollack was a FO pick that they made Zac take on.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-10-2024, 11:17 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: We were 5th last year in rush yards per attempt. But indeed we were #30 this year. #17 in ‘21.

Pro Football Reference says we ranked 22nd in rush YPA this year and 29th last year. 26th in 2021.

(01-11-2024, 01:54 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I don't think he really dumped anyone. I know there's been talk by multiple reporters who have said that the FO forced him to get rid of Turner. Pollack was a FO pick that they made Zac take on.

Interesting. I was happy to have the guy back, but the results are awful. At least Piano Man was decent with pass blocking. Pollack has been terrible with both the pass pro and the run game.