Tight Ends

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I know Sample has a role right now, but he really shouldn't be here next year. He's on a 17 game (13 start) season pace for 17 catches/119 yards (7.0 AVG)/0 TD and 4 first downs.... in over 520 snaps on offense.

If you're producing THAT little in the passing game, you're really just a blocker and at that point I can't help but think we'd be better off with just a 6th actual OL on the field who is 300+lbs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-01-2024, 04:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I know Sample has a role right now, but he really shouldn't be here next year. He's on a 17 game (13 start) season pace for 17 catches/119 yards (7.0 AVG)/0 TD and 4 first downs.... in over 520 snaps on offense.

If you're producing THAT little in the passing game, you're really just a blocker and at that point I can't help but think we'd be better off with just a 6th actual OL on the field who is 300+lbs.

That is the thing, Erick All and McLachlan make it okay to move on from Drew Sample when it is time. But you don't just cut him now, crazy.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-01-2024, 04:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is the thing, Erick All and McLachlan make it okay to move on from Drew Sample when it is time. But you don't just cut him now, crazy.

Just trying to slip that in like nobody would notice, Nate? Nice try. A 6th round rookie with 0 nfl snaps, who can't get active on gameday, who will be 26 next year, isn't making anything okay. Lol

We still need to add a quality TE to go with All next year because we will be Tee-less. Making sure we can lean on the TEs more is all that much more important.

[Frank Booth]

(10-01-2024, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Just trying to slip that in like nobody would notice, Nate? Nice try. A 6th round rookie with 0 nfl snaps, who can't get active on gameday, who will be 26 next year, isn't making anything okay. Lol

We still need to add a quality TE to go with All next year because we will be Tee-less. Making sure we can lean on the TEs more is all that much more important.

Nate Maclachlan is a star, bro

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-01-2024, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Just trying to slip that in like nobody would notice, Nate? Nice try. A 6th round rookie with 0 nfl snaps, who can't get active on gameday, who will be 26 next year, isn't making anything okay. Lol

We still need to add a quality TE to go with All next year because we will be Tee-less. Making sure we can lean on the TEs more is all that much more important.

Sample will be here for his entire contract: he's too valuable on the non-stat sheet things and players like him will be on every team.

Even with Aaron Hernandez and Gronkowski, the Patriots still had Michael Hoomanawanui as your blocker.

You need one blocker (Sample), one receiver (Gesicki) and one hybrid, if you're going to use the TE as much as we are.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-01-2024, 07:24 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Sample will be here for his entire contract: he's too valuable on the non-stat sheet things and players like him will be on every team.

Even with Aaron Hernandez and Gronkowski, the Patriots still had Michael Hoomanawanui as your blocker.

You need one blocker (Sample), one receiver (Gesicki) and one hybrid, if you're going to use the TE as much as we are.

When they had Hernandez and Gronk they only had Hoom for 1 year, and that year he played 23.41% of the snaps that year. The only year Hoom was the #2 TE and played half or more of the snaps, Tom Brady had the lowest QB Rating of his final 19 years in the NFL. Having a guy who is only a blocking TE play this much is not good, and we have no Gronk and we have no Hernandez to play in front of him.

You don't need 1 blocker, 1 receiver, and 1 hybrid. I feel like that's the antiquated idea of needing 1 big slow power back and 1 small quick scat back. You can just get good players instead even if they don't fit into the archetypical roles. It's arguably better than roles as you're not announcing to the defense what you're doing by what personnel you have out there.

Even if you wanted to fill the roles specifically I would argue we would have 2 blockers in All and Sample. With All only potentially growing into a hyrbid but currently seeming like a heck of a blocker. We don't need both next year. Our TE rooms have been so bad lately that we've lowered our hopes and expectations for it to near-bottom depths. Felt like I had this same conversation two years ago when there were so many people in love with Hayden Hurst and certain we needed to keep him despite him not being very good.

[*Synric*]

(10-01-2024, 04:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I know Sample has a role right now, but he really shouldn't be here next year. He's on a 17 game (13 start) season pace for 17 catches/119 yards (7.0 AVG)/0 TD and 4 first downs.... in over 520 snaps on offense.

If you're producing THAT little in the passing game, you're really just a blocker and at that point I can't help but think we'd be better off with just a 6th actual OL on the field who is 300+lbs.

Teams carry a blocking TE. Darnell Washington, Charlie Kolar, Jordan Atkins just in the AFC North. Along with Drew Sample not only are they apart of the offense but a big part of special teams.

Cutting Drew in 2025 would also create an unnecessary hole on the roster especially when they will likely be losing 1 maybe 2 of the Tight Ends currently on the roster (Geisiki, Hudson). Sample is cheap and plays TE-Y, Fullback, and Special Teams. It's Mike Gesicki the Bengals will likely need to replace in 2025 Byrson Nesbit UNC could be a day 3 target foe the Bengals for that role.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-01-2024, 07:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: When they had Hernandez and Gronk they only had Hoom for 1 year, and that year he played 23.41% of the snaps that year. The only year Hoom was the #2 TE and played half or more of the snaps, Tom Brady had the lowest QB Rating of his final 19 years in the NFL. Having a guy who is only a blocking TE play this much is not good, and we have no Gronk and we have no Hernandez to play in front of him.

You don't need 1 blocker, 1 receiver, and 1 hybrid. I feel like that's the antiquated idea of needing 1 big slow power back and 1 small quick scat back. You can just get good players instead even if they don't fit into the archetypical roles. It's arguably better than roles as you're not announcing to the defense what you're doing by what personnel you have out there.

Even if you wanted to fill the roles specifically I would argue we would have 2 blockers in All and Sample. With All only potentially growing into a hyrbid but currently seeming like a heck of a blocker. We don't need both next year. Our TE rooms have been so bad lately that we've lowered our hopes and expectations for it to near-bottom depths. Felt like I had this same conversation two years ago when there were so many people in love with Hayden Hurst and certain we needed to keep him despite him not being very good.

All great points (like the extra OL as a blocker, I forgot to mention that above), but Synric said basically what I was going to say, below (that you need a blocker): it's not antiquated as many teams do use one and it isn't a specialist position of sorts, as say a FB is (where literally a handful of teams employ one frequently).

An extra lineman also is fairly useless in the pass game (can you imagine Cody Ford out in space? ugh) if the play goes south, so all the more reason to have a Sample-like player that CAN catch and move the ball a bit.

Hurst I wasn't as enamoured with as everyone was: he was only ok, but guys like Sample have existed for decades and they have been on teams for a decade in the league (as mentioned prior, Mark Bruener would be the comparison to Sample). I see him playing out his (meagre) contract and then once year 9 is up, it'll remain to be seen if he is retained or not.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-01-2024, 02:09 PM)Synric Wrote: Drew Sample has a small but important role on the roster and is playing well. The Bengals are doing a really nice job rotating the TEs and using their strengths. 

Agree with this.
He's not worth much at all as a receiver, but the way I see it, all the 3 main TEs have a role:
all-around TE - Erick All
blocker - Drew Sample
big receiver - Mike Gesicki

[*PhilHos*]

(10-01-2024, 04:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I know Sample has a role right now, but he really shouldn't be here next year. He's on a 17 game (13 start) season pace for 17 catches/119 yards (7.0 AVG)/0 TD and 4 first downs.... in over 520 snaps on offense.

If you're producing THAT little in the passing game, you're really just a blocker and at that point I can't help but think we'd be better off with just a 6th actual OL on the field who is 300+lbs.

I get where you're coming from, but from what I've heard, our 12 package with Sample and All on the field is our most effective offensive package. Not to mention, I don't think the reason for Sample not having a lot of catches is because he's not a good receiver; I think it's in how we use him (kind of like how Kyle Pitts only has 8 catches on the season is probably not due to Pitts' abilities as a receiver). I'm not saying Sample is anywhere near Pitts' level as a TE, just pointing out that a big reason for Sample's lack of stats is in how we use him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-01-2024, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Just trying to slip that in like nobody would notice, Nate? Nice try. A 6th round rookie with 0 nfl snaps, who can't get active on gameday, who will be 26 next year, isn't making anything okay. Lol

We still need to add a quality TE to go with All next year because we will be Tee-less. Making sure we can lean on the TEs more is all that much more important.

No, you must not have done any research on McLachlan to write him off like that though. He has more production than All in college and 
is just as good of a pass catcher and the only reason he fell to the 6th round was because of his age and covid. McLachlan looked good in 
Preseason and the only reason he isn't active is because he is a rookie and we are actually deep at TE for once.

Of course I am for drafting a TE early as both Gesicki and Hudson could be gone but I am not acting like McLachlan is a loser because he 
is 26. BTW, why would I try to slip something in like nobody would notice? Strange question?

[Frank Booth]

(10-02-2024, 01:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No, you must not have done any research on McLachlan to write him off like that though. He has more production than All in college and 
is just as good of a pass catcher and the only reason he fell to the 6th round was because of his age and covid. McLachlan looked good in 
Preseason and the only reason he isn't active is because he is a rookie and we are actually deep at TE for once.

Of course I am for drafting a TE early as both Gesicki and Hudson could be gone but I am not acting like McLachlan is a loser because he 
is 26. BTW, why would I try to slip something in like nobody would notice? Strange question?

you just like Nate Mchlachlan because his name is Nate

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-02-2024, 01:40 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: you just like Nate Mchlachlan because his name is Nate

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-02-2024, 09:51 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I get where you're coming from, but from what I've heard, our 12 package with Sample and All on the field is our most effective offensive package. Not to mention, I don't think the reason for Sample not having a lot of catches is because he's not a good receiver; I think it's in how we use him (kind of like how Kyle Pitts only has 8 catches on the season is probably not due to Pitts' abilities as a receiver). I'm not saying Sample is anywhere near Pitts' level as a TE, just pointing out that a big reason for Sample's lack of stats is in how we use him.

And it's not like Sample has Daniel Coats hands either: he has quite good hands and holds onto the ball (I think just 2 fumbles in his career 1 lost, the stupid one against NYG in '20). That's one per 42 touches; to put in comparison, Gresh had 1 every 25.4 touches, Coats 1 every 15 (ugh) and Ceej/Eifert both never fumbled in their careers.

As a guy who will have 20 catches a year and 140 yards, I think we can all live with a fumble every 2+ years, if he blocks well and vultures a TD here and there.

[*pally*]

Joe Burrow on more two tight end looks: It fits who we are now. We have the personnel to do it. That's who we are now.

— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) October 2, 2024

[*ochocincos*]

(10-02-2024, 05:44 AM)Synric Wrote: Teams carry a blocking TE. Darnell Washington, Charlie Kolar, Jordan Atkins just in the AFC North. Along with Drew Sample not only are they apart of the offense but a big part of special teams.

Cutting Drew in 2025 would also create an unnecessary hole on the roster especially when they will likely be losing 1 maybe 2 of the Tight Ends currently on the roster (Geisiki, Hudson). Sample is cheap and plays TE-Y, Fullback, and Special Teams. It's Mike Gesicki the Bengals will likely need to replace in 2025 Byrson Nesbit UNC could be a day 3 target foe the Bengals for that role.

I so wanted both of these guys to be more than that. Or thought they would be more than that. At least until they went to an AFC North rival lol.
Maybe stay just blockers until they leave the AFC North or become future Bengals :)

[*ochocincos*]

(10-02-2024, 04:33 PM)pally Wrote:

Joe Burrow on more two tight end looks: It fits who we are now. We have the personnel to do it. That's who we are now.

— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) October 2, 2024

Is my dream offense about to become a reality?!
Maybe if it had a stud of a RB like Derrick Henry or Christian McCaffrey it would be a full reality, but I'll take what I can get.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Offensive coordinator Dan Pitcher on Erick All’s willingness to be violent as a blocker:
“I’ll say this. Maybe it goes beyond willing and turns into eager — an eagerness to be violent. That’s probably a better descriptor.”

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) October 2, 2024

[*Synric*]

(10-02-2024, 04:33 PM)pally Wrote:

Joe Burrow on more two tight end looks: It fits who we are now. We have the personnel to do it. That's who we are now.

— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) October 2, 2024

Hate to say it but apart of them going heavy 12 personnel is Andre Iosivas has been inconsistent as a slot receiver. 

[Eraserhead]

If he can stay healthy,, I think All is going to wind up being the best all-around TE we've had since Holman.