The bengals have a real defensive scheme problem I think its time to move on from lou

[Tlawsonmariat82]

The scheme is way too predictable and lacks anticipation of what the offense is trying to accomplish..We play far too much off coverage even when playing zone concepts we don't play physical with receivers at the los..

The blitz packages are waay to easy to diagnose and that's one of the reasons we continuously get carved up when sending the blitz..We don't use any simulated blitzes or overloads or anything that confuses protections instead we line up every defender ten yards off and send zero pressures which almost never works..

we have a very physical corner (josh Newton)Taylor made to face a receiving core like the ravens and he spends most of the game on the bench smh..These corners lose on any inside breaking route with regularly you'd think lou would get memo but he clearly doesn't..

[swilson3828]

(10-07-2024, 04:37 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The scheme is way too predictable and lacks anticipation of what the offense is trying to accomplish..We play far too much off coverage even when playing zone concepts we don't play physical with receivers at the los..

The blitz packages are waay to easy to diagnose and that's one of the reasons we continuously get carved up when sending the blitz..We don't use any simulated blitzes or overloads or anything that confuses protections instead we line up every defender ten yards off and send zero pressures which almost never works..

we have a very physical corner (josh Newton)Taylor made to face a receiving core like the ravens and he spends most of the game on the bench smh..These corners lose on any inside breaking route with regularly you'd think lou would get memo but he clearly doesn't..

The Bengals have a defensive personnel problem.  There are only a handful of defensive schemes that are frequently used, and the Bengals are horrid at all of them.  Hendrickson is the only pass rush the team has, there is no defensive linemen to stop the rush, and there are no defensive backs to stop the pass.  The best one can hope for is for Hendrickson or Wilson to make a play, and that's it.  This is truly a historically sucky defense......all thanks to the coupon king Mike Brown.

[matmaven]

(10-07-2024, 04:37 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The scheme is way too predictable and lacks anticipation of what the offense is trying to accomplish..We play far too much off coverage even when playing zone concepts we don't play physical with receivers at the los..

The blitz packages are waay to easy to diagnose and that's one of the reasons we continuously get carved up when sending the blitz..We don't use any simulated blitzes or overloads or anything that confuses protections instead we line up every defender ten yards off and send zero pressures which almost never works..

we have a very physical corner (josh Newton)Taylor made to face a receiving core like the ravens and he spends most of the game on the bench smh..These corners lose on any inside breaking route with regularly you'd think lou would get memo but he clearly doesn't..

A three-headed DC combination of Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, and Bud Carson couldn't help this group.

Biggest problem is the lack of return from recent defensive drafts.

2024 - Jenkins DT, Jackson DT, Newton CB - Jenkins looks promising but none of them will turn this D around this season
2023 - Murphy DE, Turner DB, Battle DB - Objectively no impact so far from these 3.
2022 - Hill DB, CTB - CB, Carter DE, Anderson S - Carter waived, Hill played better at CB this season than 2 bad years at S no hurt, CTB regressed significantly this season
2021 - Ossai DE, Sample DE, Shelvin DT - zero impact


13 players - 2 Rd 1 picks, 5 Rd 2 picks, 3 Rd 3 picks, 2 Rd 4 picks, 1 Rd 5 pick.    

These guys should make up a good portion of the core of your defense and they are making very little impact this season.  Hope for Jenkins, Hill (has to recover from an ACL now), CTB (maybe he can get back to his rookie season play) but pretty dismal outlook for this group as a whole.

Let Bates walk and now they have Bell (love him as a player but he is clearly WAY past his prime) and Stone (seems out of position literally every time I notice him).

BTW, just looked it up.  Murphy and Ossai have a combined 7.5 sacks in 53 games played.  Maybe they are pacing themselves.

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2024, 10:27 PM)matmaven Wrote: A three-headed DC combination of Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, and Bud Carson couldn't help this group.

Biggest problem is the lack of return from recent defensive drafts.

2024 - Jenkins DT, Jackson DT, Newton CB - Jenkins looks promising but none of them will turn this D around this season
2023 - Murphy DE, Turner DB, Battle DB - Objectively no impact so far from these 3.
2022 - Hill DB, CTB - CB, Carter DE, Anderson S - Carter waived, Hill played better at CB this season than 2 bad years at S no hurt, CTB regressed significantly this season
2021 - Ossai DE, Sample DE, Shelvin DT - zero impact


13 players - 2 Rd 1 picks, 5 Rd 2 picks, 3 Rd 3 picks, 2 Rd 4 picks, 1 Rd 5 pick.    

These guys should make up a good portion of the core of your defense and they are making very little impact this season.  Hope for Jenkins, Hill (has to recover from an ACL now), CTB (maybe he can get back to his rookie season play) but pretty dismal outlook for this group as a whole.

Let Bates walk and now they have Bell (love him as a player but he is clearly WAY past his prime) and Stone (seems out of position literally every time I notice him).

Yup, not hitting on all those players is a big black mark on our coaching since they're so involved in our drafts. The coaches here have way more control of who we draft compared to other teams (because the front office is cheap and doesn't have very much of a scouting department)

[KillerGoose]

(10-07-2024, 04:37 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The scheme is way too predictable and lacks anticipation of what the offense is trying to accomplish..We play far too much off coverage even when playing zone concepts we don't play physical with receivers at the los..

The blitz packages are waay to easy to diagnose and that's one of the reasons we continuously get carved up when sending the blitz..We don't use any simulated blitzes or overloads or anything that confuses protections instead we line up every defender ten yards off and send zero pressures which almost never works..

we have a very physical corner (josh Newton)Taylor made to face a receiving core like the ravens and he spends most of the game on the bench smh..These corners lose on any inside breaking route with regularly you'd think lou would get memo but he clearly doesn't..

The Bengals use plenty of simulated blitzes and overloads. Hell, there were multiple cover zero calls and simulated blitzes against the Ravens. It’s less a scheme issue and more a personnel issue. The Bengals have one of the worst defensive lines in the league.

[Bengalitis]

(10-07-2024, 10:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals use plenty of simulated blitzes and overloads. Hell, there were multiple cover zero calls and simulated blitzes against the Ravens. It’s less a scheme issue and more a personnel issue. The Bengals have one of the worst defensive lines in the league.

I agree with this.. I mean, the defense, with their lack of personnel, played a hell of a game, they are inferior to the Raven's offense... Flowers, Lamar, Henry, good O-line... BUT they put the offense in a position to win it. The Bengals were 2 scores ahead in the 4th Qtr. and just couldnt score to seal the deal. Hell, even teh defense scoring 2 pts for them, what more you want from such a defense lacking talent. 

[Joelist]

Actually scheme is part of the problem. As in the current secondary players are patently incapable of executing the scheme. Lou needs to adapt the scheme into something these players can execute - it's one thing to get beaten on coverages but they repeatedly blow coverages. And a culprit is they fail to react to plays and sit in their zones way too long.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(10-07-2024, 10:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals use plenty of simulated blitzes and overloads. Hell, there were multiple cover zero calls and simulated blitzes against the Ravens. It’s less a scheme issue and more a personnel issue. The Bengals have one of the worst defensive lines in the league.

there was nothing simulated about what lou called Sunday they were all zero pressures with defenders playing 10 yards off the los,not one two high press look with a 5th rusher coming at the snap nothing of a sort..if you guys think there's not a scheme problem in Cincinnati then I would suggest you watch some of the more creative defenses around the league then ask yourself how our scheme stacks up I can tell you right now not good..

I've defended lou forever trust me but I can no longer defend him it's time to move on we need somebody that's more creative and innovative for the game as it's played today we cannot afford to keep wasting seasons waiting for lou to fix this defense it's clear that he can't and we need to look for someone who can..

[Bengalbug]

(10-07-2024, 10:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals use plenty of simulated blitzes and overloads. Hell, there were multiple cover zero calls and simulated blitzes against the Ravens. It’s less a scheme issue and more a personnel issue. The Bengals have one of the worst defensive lines in the league.

It’s even more sad because the bengals have one of, if not the highest, paid defensive lines in the NFL.

[Stonyhands]

I don’t know what people are smoking but Lou’s scheme has always been shit. Bend but don’t break…what a joke. Lou is the beneficiary of some
Very very timely turnovers. His entire philosophy is that if you make an opposing team run a bazillion plays by keeping everything underneath, they are statistically going to make a mistake. That’s where his defense has lived. I can’t keep count of the amount of converted 3rd downs that looked like they just conceded the down to get the other teams offense to run more plays. Has Lou once in any defensive statistic had a top 5 spot? Name one position on the field or aspect of defense that Lou has improved since being here? Lou came in and threw our veterans under the bus…guys like Dunlap and Atkins. The guy’s situational playcalling is off the charts terrible. I really find it hard to believe that this team’s starting 11 on D are so bad that they can’t tackle and can’t cover. How do 11 guys make it this far? Maybe consistently running Nickel with DEs that easily get erased by TEs isn’t the best scheme for stopping the run.

I will give Hubbard props for his best game of the year.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

just look no further than what spags is doing in Kc,he's developed guys like trent mcduffie,jaylan Watkins and kafilasis by way of 1st and 3rd round picks and kc has picked lower than us in all of those drafts that fact of the matter is lou doesn't have a system that works plain and simple..

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-08-2024, 01:55 AM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: just look no further than what spags is doing in Kc,he's developed guys like trent mcduffie,jaylan Watkins and kafilasis by way of 1st and 3rd round picks and kc has picked lower than us in all of those drafts that fact of the matter is lou doesn't have a system that works plain and simple..

I am the furthest thing from a Lou defender on this board, but even I will say that while yes he needs to be fired, to be fair to him the Bengals FO needs to hire some damn scouts. Even if Lou WAS a good DC (I don't think he is) that doesn't mean he's also a good scout, and on the Bengals he has to be both largely his own scout while being a DC.

I'm sure the KC DC has plenty of input in who gets drafted, but if you look at the Chiefs FO page they have 14 people with the word "Scout" in their title. The Bengals have 4.

[pulses]

(10-08-2024, 02:14 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am the furthest thing from a Lou defender on this board, but even I will say that while yes he needs to be fired, to be fair to him the Bengals FO needs to hire some damn scouts. Even if Lou WAS a good DC (I don't think he is) that doesn't mean he's also a good scout, and on the Bengals he has to be both largely his own scout while being a DC.

I'm sure the KC DC has plenty of input in who gets drafted, but if you look at the Chiefs FO page they have 14 people with the word "Scout" in their title. The Bengals have 4.

We definitely need at least 10 more scouts. Maybe they'll stop drafting players from just a handful of schools every year.

[XsandOs]

A few points as follows:
1) Bengals have used their true premium picks on offense this decade. Burrow, Chase. Their highest pick outside of top-10 was spent on Mims.
2) On defense, Bengals have used late first round picks (Murphy 28, Hill 31)
3) Bengals have attempted drafting defensive players with their first three picks in positions of need, with a one to two year plan of starting for pending departures (Hill for Bates, Murphy for Hubbard/Hendrickson (multiple DEs drafted besides Murphy) , CTB for Chidobe, Turner for Hilton, Shelvin for Reader, etc.)

So the issue besides the offense getting the premium picks is failures in DEVELOPING these defensive picks. Also, Bengals sit in their spot and pick what falls to them - and pat themselves on the back for picking BPA or the dreaded "not picking for need". The reality is that we are picking for need.

Chiefs traded up 10 spots two years ago to draft McDuffie. Similar to us, they picked a need player one year in advance of moving away from Sneed. They packaged their last pick in the first round with their third and fourth round picks.

At this point, going the FA route to replenish with NFL caliber talent is really the only option - other than trades.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-08-2024, 04:16 AM)pulses Wrote: We definitely need at least 10 more scouts. Maybe they'll stop drafting players from just a handful of schools every year.

I'd honestly settle for just 4 or 5 more at this point. I'm not even asking the Browns/Blackburns to bring themselves up to the average (though that'd sure be appreciated), just make a LITTLE less space between being embarrassingly way down at the bottom and everyone else. 

If you do the same search on the rest of the AFCN's FO pages...
Ravens: 11
Steelers: 17
Browns: 26  (just to trade for Watson and over the last 3 drafts have 0 1st round picks and 1 2nd round pick, lol)

Couple successful teams to go with the Chiefs' 14...
49ers: 18
Bills: 13
Eagles: 15

[*Synric*]

(10-07-2024, 10:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals use plenty of simulated blitzes and overloads. Hell, there were multiple cover zero calls and simulated blitzes against the Ravens. It’s less a scheme issue and more a personnel issue. The Bengals have one of the worst defensive lines in the league.

Couple of blitzes packages off the top of my head was 2 completed over routes by the Ravens. First one they had were running a 335 look with Hubbard lined up at MIKE Linrbacker. Of course Sam blitzed from depth (weird choice for a speed blitz) zero pressure by anyone Lamar's throws the over route into the area Hubbard vacated. Second blitz was a Right Side Overload (Left side Offensive Line) they brought including thr free safety. Thr overload was blocked but with only Stone coming as a free runner from a little distance off the right side. Lamar moves right waits for the deep over route that is behind where Sam Hubbard has fallen back into zone coverage (Curl/Flat).

Bengals blitzed 41 times with barely any pressure against the Ravens. Their pass rushers are not good and it's a passing league.



We have seen the scheme work in 2021/2022 (with alot of attention by national people) with mostly average players and a few top end talent.... Well the top end guys are gone besides Trey so it's not a surprise that the Defense has fallen off quickly.

[reuben.ahmed]

Can we get some IDL help by trading picks or Tee, or is Lou a lost cause? Trading Tee will be a step back I think, even if the defense is a step forward; although he seems to fumble the ball half the time out of bounds/play is over lately lol.

Burrow just needs a couple more stops and we are winning these games where he's balling out and not allowed to make a couple mistakes himself lol.

We apparently were not bold enough to move Tee at the right time. Bengals never trade players at high value, it's tough because those are the players you would really get something back for and they're also some of our best - the offense is performing magnificently lately and the defense is on the other end, if we try to balance it out - it's a gamble. As it stands, it's not working though. If you pay the best QB 55 million you have to trust he will figure it out though...

[SunsetBengal]

As others have already said, scheme is not the problem. The issue is that of personnel, particularly on the interior of the DL. Until the DT duo can consistently require 3-4 offensive players to block them, there will consistently be breakdowns at other layers of the defense.