Fields an upgrade for Steelers

[GMDino]

(10-21-2024, 12:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Jets have a good defense, Wilson after he shock off the rust, was impressive, with Steelers defense and if Wilson can continue to click especially with Pickens, Bengals are behind the eight ball with both Ravens and Steelers

Jets secondary was pretty beat up.  

Wilson looked better passing in the 2nd half but I don't know if that "moon balls" will land against better teams.

Nice win, but it was the JETS.  And now they get an equally bad Giants team.

Should have a decent record before the back half of the season starts getting harder.

[Bengalbug]

(10-23-2024, 11:00 AM)GMDino Wrote: Jets secondary was pretty beat up.  

Wilson looked better passing in the 2nd half but I don't know if that "moon balls" will land against better teams.

Nice win, but it was the JETS.  And now they get an equally bad Giants team.

Should have a decent record before the back half of the season starts getting harder.

That’s an understatement. They were on like CB4. They lost their safety in the game and Sauce was a little nicked up.

New York was without top cornerbacks D.J. Reed and Michael Carter as well as safety Chuck Clark before the game. Safety Tony Adams was lost during the game.

Even All-Pro cornerback Sauce Gardner was lost for a series with a knee injury.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-23-2024, 11:00 AM)GMDino Wrote: Jets secondary was pretty beat up.  

Wilson looked better passing in the 2nd half but I don't know if that "moon balls" will land against better teams.

Nice win, but it was the JETS.  And now they get an equally bad Giants team.

Should have a decent record before the back half of the season starts getting harder.

Why wouldn't they? Wilson made a living off of throws like that in Seattle for years.

[BengalYankee]

(10-04-2024, 09:59 AM)GMDino Wrote: Tomlin, IMHO, is not a good at preparing his team for the team they are playing.  I think his emphasis is on fundamentals and how HIS team will play and then figuring he has enough good players to overcome the rest.

Then you see the number of dumb penalties and wonder if he's even doing that.

I liked the hire.  I defended him against the racist "he only got hired because of the Rooney Rule" nonsense.  But he seeming inabilty to change his philosophy to match the changes in the league are frustrating.

Sometimes even great coaches go stale.  And Tomlin was never a "great" coach.  Sure fire HOFer due to longevity and that whole "never had a losing season" thing.  But his lack of playoff success will haunt Steelers fans.

(10-21-2024, 01:42 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: With the garbage he had to deal with Tomlin is far better than Cowher. 

Unfortunately, with them playing the Giants next week, I see them 6 - 2 in first place next week. 

[GMDino]

(10-29-2024, 02:20 AM)BengalYankee Wrote:

Until they win another playoff game I stand by what I said.

Slow starts, catch a break, good bounce, missed call or non-call and D or ST makes a play for the win.

It's just not a recipe for long term success against the better teams in a win or you're out game.

Even the Giants game was a one score win WITH the Steelers getting two late turnovers and a bunch of calls and a punt return TD.  If the KR gets called back for running into the kicker it's a one point game...lol.

[GMDino]

(10-24-2024, 10:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why wouldn't they? Wilson made a living off of throws like that in Seattle for years.

I guess because Wilson is not the young guy who won in Seattle for a few years.

He's held his own so far.  Now they are heading into the harder stretch of the season we'll see how they do.

[BengalYankee]

(10-29-2024, 11:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: Until they win another playoff game I stand by what I said.

Slow starts, catch a break, good bounce, missed call or non-call and D or ST makes a play for the win.

It's just not a recipe for long term success against the better teams in a win or you're out game.

Even the Giants game was a one score win WITH the Steelers getting two late turnovers and a bunch of calls and a punt return TD.  If the KR gets called back for running into the kicker it's a one point game...lol.

How many Playoff games did Paul Brown win after the merger?

[GMDino]

(10-30-2024, 12:04 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: How many Playoff games did Paul Brown win after the merger?

No idea so I looked it up.

He went from 1956 -1962 and 1968-1975 with zero wins.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BrowPa0.htm

In fact '56 was his first losing season.

I'd propose that football was different back then and 69-75 he had an expansion team...that he owned...so he I don't think there is a comparison to Tomlin.

Except maybe that even winning coaches can have their style  go dry and not be able to win the bigger games eventually.

Yinzers have made every excuse they can for the playoff losses.  Every one except the one constant:  Tomlin.

So we'll see what the rest of the season brings, but a winning record just doesn't do it for me anymore.

[BengalYankee]

(10-30-2024, 07:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: No idea so I looked it up.

He went from 1956 -1962 and 1968-1975 with zero wins.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BrowPa0.htm

In fact '56 was his first losing season.

I'd propose that football was different back then and 69-75 he had an expansion team...that he owned...so he I don't think there is a comparison to Tomlin.

Except maybe that even winning coaches can have their style  go dry and not be able to win the bigger games eventually.

Yinzers have made every excuse they can for the playoff losses.  Every one except the one constant:  Tomlin.

So we'll see what the rest of the season brings, but a winning record just doesn't do it for me anymore.

Exactly, he has zero wins in the playoffs after the merger. I knew that but I wanted you to find out.

Now that we know he has zero wins since the merger. In your mind was he a great head coach and why? 

P.S. That team from 69-75 went 0 - 3 in the playoffs. 

[GMDino]

(10-30-2024, 08:33 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Exactly, he has zero wins in the playoffs after the merger. I knew that but I wanted you to find out.

Now that we know he has zero wins since the merger. In your mind was he a great head coach and why? 

P.S. That team from 69-75 went 0 - 3 in the playoffs. 

Because of the number of championships his teams won prior to that.

And if Tomlin won a bunch I'd still say the same:  His time may have passed.

it happened to Noll too.

[BengalYankee]

(10-31-2024, 05:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because of the number of championships his teams won prior to that.

And if Tomlin won a bunch I'd still say the same:  His time may have passed.

it happened to Noll too.

Gotcha!!!!

So you agree that Championships before the Super Bowl era is important.

Paul Brown was a Great coach, but that was before the Super Bowl era.
The  Green Bay Packers AND the Cleveland Browns were Great teams.

The NFL did not start in 1968.

If we are talking about Championships Otto Graham was Great before Brady was Great as they BOTH won 7 Championships and Graham did it in less years.

As for as Tomlin he has the same amount of Championships as Cowher and for that matter John Madden as well.

[GMDino]

(10-31-2024, 06:34 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Gotcha!!!!

So you agree that Championships before the Super Bowl era is important.

Paul Brown was a Great coach, but that was before the Super Bowl era.
The  Green Bay Packers AND the Cleveland Browns were Great teams.

The NFL did not start in 1968.

If we are talking about Championships Otto Graham was Great before Brady was Great as they BOTH won 7 Championships and Graham did it in less years.

As for as Tomlin he has the same amount of Championships as Cowher and for that matter John Madden as well.

As a fan of history I always thought the championship before the SB mattered/are important.

I think the mid 50's Detroit Lions were one of the greatest teams in NFL history!

I also think Madden get overrated because of his success as a broadcaster.  If he had faded away after retiring he's not the "legend" many say he is today.

Cowher, IMHO, did more with less than Tomlin has.  And like Cowher, and many other really good coaches who won championships, his time may have come and gone.

They are getting a boost this year with new QB's and a new OC because Tomlin can't develop a QB or hire an OC on his own.  But until they win a playoff a game (at least) his seat should at least be warm.

[BengalYankee]

(11-03-2024, 10:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: As a fan of history I always thought the championship before the SB mattered/are important.

I think the mid 50's Detroit Lions were one of the greatest teams in NFL history!

I also think Madden get overrated because of his success as a broadcaster.  If he had faded away after retiring he's not the "legend" many say he is today.

Cowher, IMHO, did more with less than Tomlin has.  And like Cowher, and many other really good coaches who won championships, his time may have come and gone.

They are getting a boost this year with new QB's and a new OC because Tomlin can't develop a QB or hire an OC on his own.  But until they win a playoff a game (at least) his seat should at least be warm.

Well, I wish the Seahawks would fire him now. I would petition the Bengals to hire him as Head Coach. I know that most NFL teams would be licking their lips at the thought of Tomlin on their staff. 

Well, good luck against the Ravens and bad luck against all other teams.

[GMDino]

(11-03-2024, 01:19 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Well, I wish the Seahawks would fire him now. I would petition the Bengals to hire him as Head Coach. I know that most NFL teams would be licking their lips at the thought of Tomlin on their staff. 

Well, good luck against the Ravens and bad luck against all other teams.

I don't like the Seahawks coach either. 

But I keep hearing that all these other teams would take him and I wonder if they would put up with 7 years of zero playoff wins?  Maybe they just want regular season wins.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(11-04-2024, 04:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't like the Seahawks coach either. 

But I keep hearing that all these other teams would take him and I wonder if they would put up with 7 years of zero playoff wins?  Maybe they just want regular season wins.

Andy Reid once went 6 years without a playoff win.  Does that make him a mediocre coach too?  

Edit: I would also argue that “seven years” sounds worse than it actually is.  Of those seven years, one was with Hodges/Rudolph, two with Rudolph/Pickett, and at least one or two were with a very diminished Ben.  To avoid going below .500 with that is impressive.  Plus, it leaves him with maybe two or three years out of that streak where he failed to win a playoff game with “peak Ben”.  Even Belichick failed to win a playoff game at least three times with Brady.  

[BengalYankee]

(11-04-2024, 04:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't like the Seahawks coach either. 

But I keep hearing that all these other teams would take him and I wonder if they would put up with 7 years of zero playoff wins?  Maybe they just want regular season wins.

As Joy Reid said, after one of her accounts had her writing "controversial" comments about homosexuals. 

Joy Reid:
I was hacked!!!!!
   
Bengal Yankee:
I was hacked, probably by a Dodger fan

I meant the Stealers!!!!

I don't like the Seahawks either as I can never forgive them for allowing the Stealers to win a SB.

[GMDino]

(11-04-2024, 05:20 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Andy Reid once went 6 years without a playoff win.  Does that make him a mediocre coach too?  

Edit: I would also argue that “seven years” sounds worse than it actually is.  Of those seven years, one was with Hodges/Rudolph, two with Rudolph/Pickett, and at least one or two were with a very diminished Ben.  To avoid going below .500 with that is impressive.  Plus, it leaves him with maybe two or three years out of that streak where he failed to win a playoff game with “peak Ben”.  Even Belichick failed to win a playoff game at least three times with Brady.  

I don't think I said Tomlin was mediocre.  He won...a lot.  He also had some pretty good teams.  And yes, he managed 500 with Duck/Rudolph too.

The Steelers defense saved a lot of games when the O stunk.  Right up to this year.

But sometimes the message just get stale.  

Reid moved a new team and won for example.  Maybe Tomlin could win a SB or two with a new team and new QB?  We'll never know because he will coach the Steelers until he decides he doesn't want to.

But a question for you:  How many more years without a playoff win until it gets to be too many?  There can always be an excuse for a loss and sooner of later they are going to have to overcome those.

I always say you have to make the playoffs to win a playoff game (very Madden of me...lol) but until the win one it will hang on Tomlin's neck from the fans.

[BengalYankee]

(11-07-2024, 11:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think I said Tomlin was mediocre.  He won...a lot.  He also had some pretty good teams.  And yes, he managed 500 with Duck/Rudolph too.

The Steelers defense saved a lot of games when the O stunk.  Right up to this year.

But sometimes the message just get stale.  

Reid moved a new team and won for example.  Maybe Tomlin could win a SB or two with a new team and new QB?  We'll never know because he will coach the Steelers until he decides he doesn't want to.

But a question for you:  How many more years without a playoff win until it gets to be too many?  There can always be an excuse for a loss and sooner of later they are going to have to overcome those.

I always say you have to make the playoffs to win a playoff game (very Madden of me...lol) but until the win one it will hang on Tomlin's neck from the fans.

Don't hang on his neck. Fire him!!!

I am sure some Ohio and New York teams would hire him.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(11-07-2024, 11:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think I said Tomlin was mediocre.  He won...a lot.  He also had some pretty good teams.  And yes, he managed 500 with Duck/Rudolph too.

The Steelers defense saved a lot of games when the O stunk.  Right up to this year.

But sometimes the message just get stale.  

Reid moved a new team and won for example.  Maybe Tomlin could win a SB or two with a new team and new QB?  We'll never know because he will coach the Steelers until he decides he doesn't want to.

But a question for you:  How many more years without a playoff win until it gets to be too many?  There can always be an excuse for a loss and sooner of later they are going to have to overcome those.

I always say you have to make the playoffs to win a playoff game (very Madden of me...lol) but until the win one it will hang on Tomlin's neck from the fans.

Check back with me in January.  

Also … with whom has the message gotten stale?  Players need to stick around a while for that to happen.  How many of today’s players were even on the roster seven years ago? I didn’t examine the whole thing, but I can tell you there aren’t many.  The starting offense has turned over completely, but there are still a few on the current D: Cam Heyward and T.J. Watt.  Do you think the message has gotten stale with them? Just because you and other fans are tired of hearing Tomlin’s voice doesn’t make it so with the players, and they’re the ones who matter.  

[BengalYankee]

(11-03-2024, 10:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: As a fan of history I always thought the championship before the SB mattered/are important.

I think the mid 50's Detroit Lions were one of the greatest teams in NFL history!

I also think Madden get overrated because of his success as a broadcaster.  If he had faded away after retiring he's not the "legend" many say he is today.

Cowher, IMHO, did more with less than Tomlin has.  And like Cowher, and many other really good coaches who won championships, his time may have come and gone.

They are getting a boost this year with new QB's and a new OC because Tomlin can't develop a QB or hire an OC on his own.  But until they win a playoff a game (at least) his seat should at least be warm.