A positive - Chase Brown

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-20-2024, 03:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the issue we have with drafting a RB is we have soo many other needs. Our defense is bad at every level. We need a WR 2. Our interior offensive line is bad.

Brown is probably good enough given those issues.

Very true. We will still need to draft a RB but probably cannot afford to do it early for a guy like Ashton Jeanty dang it all. Love this guy.

Probably have to draft Defense or Interior O-line in the first couple rounds.

(11-20-2024, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The worry with the 49ers is they have a history of taken undrafted backs and making them good. I doubt he comes here and replicates that.

My exact thoughts. Shanahan makes every RB look decent in that scheme. Wish we had a new OC that could do a shadow of that scheme.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-20-2024, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The worry with the 49ers is they have a history of taken undrafted backs and making them good. I doubt he comes here and replicates that.

Yeah, not fully expecting him to replicate his career 5.3ypc if he comes here, but even if he has some dropoff that's still a good number. 

I will say Jeff Wilson, Raheem Mostert, and Matt Breida left the 49ers and found some success with the Dolphins (apparently their GM just likes taking the 49ers RB depth in FA, lol). I don't think it's quite a full blown Mike Shanahan's- RBs-at-the-Broncos type situation.

Ultimately we need a new coaching staff to go with the more talent.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-20-2024, 03:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, not fully expecting him to replicate his career 5.3ypc if he comes here, but even if he has some dropoff that's still a good number. 

I will say Jeff Wilson, Raheem Mostert, and Matt Breida left the 49ers and found some success with the Dolphins (apparently their GM just likes taking the 49ers RB depth in FA, lol). I don't think it's quite a full blown Mike Shanahan's- RBs-at-the-Broncos type situation.

Ultimately we need a new coaching staff to go with the more talent.

Yes, a new coaching staff with a decent scheme and Mason might be a good add for us at RB.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-20-2024, 01:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Pacheco isn't much bigger than Brown. Like a few lbs maybe.

I don't disagree about the size difference. Pacheco is and was considered a power back coming out of college. Not that Madden is the end all be all, but go look at what type of back Pacheco is rated as on Madden. He's considered a power back. He's powerfully built and so is Brown, but Pacheco moves piles forward while Brown has yet to discover that consistently. 

I'm not knocking the kid. He's one of my favorite players on this team. Wts, he could use a little hep! 

Jalen Hurts is a QB and is one of the most powerful dudes on the Eagles. Dude squats like a million pounds. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-20-2024, 05:33 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I don't disagree about the size difference. Pacheco is and was considered a power back coming out of college. Not that Madden is the end all be all, but go look at what type of back Pacheco is rated as on Madden. He's considered a power back. He's powerfully built and so is Brown, but Pacheco moves piles forward while Brown has yet to discover that consistently. 

I'm not knocking the kid. He's one of my favorite players on this team. Wts, he could use a little hep! 

Jalen Hurts is a QB and is one of the most powerful dudes on the Eagles. Dude squats like a million pounds. 

Pacheco runs crazy hard no doubt. Much more powerful than Chase Brown and yes like you I like Chase Brown a ton. Some players are just 
different. Jalen Hurts might be the most powerful running QB ever and that is why it is automatic when the Eagles run the brotherly shove.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2024, 05:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pacheco runs crazy hard no doubt. Much more powerful than Chase Brown and yes like you I like Chase Brown a ton. Some players are just 
different. Jalen Hurts might be the most powerful running QB ever and that is why it is automatic when the Eagles run the brotherly shove.

Go look up Jonah Coleman, RB at Washington. Bowling ball thumper at 5'9", 230 lbs.
At 1168 yards from scrimmage this year after 1154 last year.
I got him pegged as a Day 3 pick in my latest mock.

[Joelist]

Unless we change the scheme on offense RB picks are kinda wasted. If they get under center more, run more and actually break tendencies on play calling (so the defense has to guess a little and can't just tee off) then maybe a big power back is a good call later in the draft.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2024, 06:45 PM)Joelist Wrote: Unless we change the scheme on offense RB picks are kinda wasted. If they get under center more, run more and actually break tendencies on play calling (so the defense has to guess a little and can't just tee off) then maybe a big power back is a good call later in the draft.

I would argue a Day 3 pick on a RB isn't really a waste because those picks almost amount to nothing anyway.
But I assume you are referring to a Rd 1-3 pick, right?
If so, I agree.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

I really like Chase Brown. He seems like the kind of guy who gives it everything on each play, works hard and is tenacious... definitely glad to see the season he's put together.

That said, he's not an RB1... ideally he'll be a complimentary RB2 to share the load with a 'full time' RB1. Zack Moss is not that guy, and so to my mind we ideally do some shopping for an answer at RB in the offseason.

But Chase Brown is definitely one of the (limited) positives to this season.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2024, 07:01 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I really like Chase Brown. He seems like the kind of guy who gives it everything on each play, works hard and is tenacious... definitely glad to see the season he's put together.

That said, he's not an RB1... ideally he'll be a complimentary RB2 to share the load with a 'full time' RB1. Zack Moss is not that guy, and so to my mind we ideally do some shopping for an answer at RB in the offseason.

But Chase Brown is definitely one of the (limited) positives to this season.

Can you explain why you think that?

Since Chase Brown took over as the RB1, here are his stats:
LV - 157 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD
BAL - 94 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD
LAC - 143 yards from scrimmage, 0 TD
---------------------------------------------------
Total - 394 yards from scrimmage, 2 TDs in 3 games (131.33 YFS average)
81 total touches (27 touches per game average)

That's a "full-time" RB1 in my book.
People might not be overly thrilled with his YPC against BAL and LAC (3.2 and 3.9 respectively), but the Ravens and Chargers are both Top 5 in rushing defense right now.

[Sled21]

(11-20-2024, 07:01 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I really like Chase Brown. He seems like the kind of guy who gives it everything on each play, works hard and is tenacious... definitely glad to see the season he's put together.

That said, he's not an RB1... ideally he'll be a complimentary RB2 to share the load with a 'full time' RB1. Zack Moss is not that guy, and so to my mind we ideally do some shopping for an answer at RB in the offseason.

But Chase Brown is definitely one of the (limited) positives to this season.

I think they are making a mistake not letting Herbert get some snaps, if for nothing else to keep from wearing Brown down. Yeah, he fumbled a handoff from Burrow, but he had zero full speed reps with him at that time. They benched him and since then he's only been in for one return that I remember. The dude is a proven NFL back, and could probably be an asset if they would use him. If not, then why did they sign him. 

[Whatever]

(11-20-2024, 01:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My personal opinion here, but I'm not spending a Day 1 or Day 2 pick on a RB when there's a clear need for (I)OL, DL, DB (specifically safety), and likely pass catcher(s).
Brown is showing that while there may be opportunity to upgrade, he's at least ok compared to poor in other areas that need addressed more urgently.
Plus, Brown has the kind of skillset that could get elevated with better OL run blocking/scheme. Both of which hopefully are coming next season.

So, basically, pray Brown doesn't get hurt because we won't be able to run the ball at all if he does?

Given the physicality and injury rates of RB's, I'm sorry, but you need at least two that can carry the load.  Especially in the AFCN.

[Whatever]

(11-21-2024, 10:35 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Can you explain why you think that?

Since Chase Brown took over as the RB1, here are his stats:
LV - 157 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD
BAL - 94 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD
LAC - 143 yards from scrimmage, 0 TD
---------------------------------------------------
Total - 394 yards from scrimmage, 2 TDs in 3 games (131.33 YFS average)
81 total touches (27 touches per game average)

That's a "full-time" RB1 in my book.
People might not be overly thrilled with his YPC against BAL and LAC (3.2 and 3.9 respectively), but the Ravens and Chargers are both Top 5 in rushing defense right now.

The Chargers are actually 20th in Yards Allowed/Carry at 4.7.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-21-2024, 11:38 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Chargers are actually 20th in Yards Allowed/Carry at 4.7.

Top 5 rushing defense does not necessarily mean Top 5 in YPA.
They are 5th in rushing attempts against them, best in rushing TDs allowed.

[higgy100]

(11-20-2024, 07:01 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I really like Chase Brown. He seems like the kind of guy who gives it everything on each play, works hard and is tenacious... definitely glad to see the season he's put together.

That said, he's not an RB1... ideally he'll be a complimentary RB2 to share the load with a 'full time' RB1. Zack Moss is not that guy, and so to my mind we ideally do some shopping for an answer at RB in the offseason.

But Chase Brown is definitely one of the (limited) positives to this season.

I would have totally agreed with you up to a few games ago but he's blocking well, running hard and very well with lots of carries so he's becoming durable and he's an integral part of the passing game.Went from a 1-2 down back to a guy you can keep on the field. 

With that said, they absolutely do need another bigger back that can get carries, carries in the short game that can fall forward more and get those extra 1-2 yards (If ZT would ever commit to the running game) and to make sure Chase can maintain his production. Every team but this one uses 2-3 backs with varying skills.

[*Synric*]

(11-20-2024, 01:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My personal opinion here, but I'm not spending a Day 1 or Day 2 pick on a RB when there's a clear need for (I)OL, DL, DB (specifically safety), and likely pass catcher(s).
Brown is showing that while there may be opportunity to upgrade, he's at least ok compared to poor in other areas that need addressed more urgently.
Plus, Brown has the kind of skillset that could get elevated with better OL run blocking/scheme. Both of which hopefully are coming next season.

At this point with the roster it's less about "needs" and more just finding good players regardless of the position (exceptions QB maybe OT early).

This might not be draft class where you want to force an IOL or safety picks. There's a few guys but on the whole it's not good classes at those positions. DL, RB, and Corner seem to be the heavy favorites.

[Whatever]

(11-21-2024, 11:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Top 5 rushing defense does not necessarily mean Top 5 in YPA.
They are 5th in rushing attempts against them, best in rushing TDs allowed.

He still averaged .8 YPC worse than their season average. 

You will get yards so long as you get touches, which in that game, he got 22 carries and also 7 targets.  However, the only reason he's seeing 22 carries with a sub 4.0 ypc average is literally nobody behind him at RB, so he has to get the bulk of RB touches.  

[Whatever]

(11-21-2024, 12:32 PM)Synric Wrote: At this point with the roster it's less about "needs" and more just finding good players regardless of the position (exceptions QB maybe OT early).

This might not be draft class where you want to force an IOL or safety picks. There's a few guys but on the whole it's not good classes at those positions. DL, RB, and Corner seem to be the heavy favorites.

Yup.  We're past the point of just filling a few holes.  We need some studs, THEN we can fill in around them.  Getting actual good players with our draft picks is 100x more important than hitting specific position groups.  We are in a rebuild stage.  We can't afford to pretend like we can just reload.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-20-2024, 01:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Alternatively.....

Last 8 games (since he started getting 10+ carries a game) he's at 4.0ypc.
Last 7 games he's at 3.8ypc.
Last 5 games he's at 3.6ypc.

His 5.9 average on receiving is 146th out of 154 qualified players.


....we have other needs more pressing to upgrade, but we still need help at RB.


- - - - - - -

Before anyone blames the OL entirely for it, Brown is 10th among RBs in average yards per carry before contact and 37th among RBs in average yards per carry after contact. 

He is breaking tackles at an extremely high rate in fairness to him, he just doesn't seem to be getting much out of it when he does. Also seems to be getting better at pass blocking, as I am pretty sure I saw him make a couple good blocks each of the last two weeks.

We have 6 games left if Brown stays healthy to have a very fair evaluation of Chase as our future #1 back... if end of season  hopefully he has a solid finish we don;t have to spend capitol on a starting RB next year

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-21-2024, 10:35 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Since Chase Brown took over as the RB1, here are his stats:
LV - 157 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD
BAL - 94 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD
LAC - 143 yards from scrimmage, 0 TD

What made you choose that as your line of him taking over? 

He's had the most carries in every game for the last 7 straight games now. He also stopped getting all his special teams snaps and instead played the majority of the offensive snaps for the last 6 games. I feel like either of those would be a more accurate starting point of when Brown took over as RB1.

Using the 6 game number where he passed off his ST responsibility and started getting the majority of the snaps and the majority of the carries puts him at 90.4 yards from scrimmage per game rather than your 131.3 number. Even just yards from scrimmage alone isn't a great metric because it ignored the 3.8ypc and 6.7avg during those 6 weeks, both of which are bad.

I'm with Essex on I hope he finishes the season real strong and shows he can be a #1. I am just not sure I see it yet.