Thoughts on possible coaching changes

[*jason*]

(Yesterday, 12:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Lets hope

We need new direction, new hope, new style, not that we've had a style.

Sure we do... Be so bad we land a blue chip guy in the draft, ride that upward momentum for a few seasons while slowly bleeding talent, replace that talent with cheaper and lesser options, watch the whole thing crumble, and be bad enough to land that blue chipper in the draft again.

I left out the step of the previous blue chip player leaving on bad terms.

[J24]

I don't think Lou is the main problem with the defense,to me It's a roster problem not coaching problem. With that being said a new voice should be had; the question is who. My bet would be Zimmer or Robert Livingston

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 11:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, contrary to another thread that I created calling for his replacement that I posted while angry and frustrated with the season, I tend to agree with you. A strong defensive mind needs to be brought in to replace Anarumo, preferably someone with past Head Coaching experience... I'm looking at you, Mike Vrabel. That person also needs to have strong input into personnel acquisition during the draft and free agency, as well as the ability to shape his own staff of position coaches.

Something needs to be done about that damn OL as well, and I don't think that it's quite as simple as "replace Pollack". While replacing Frank Pollack may very well be a key facet in fixing what's wrong with the OL and rushing attack, game planning and play calling are equally culpable for putting the OL in a position to fail in short yardage and sustaining blocks in pass pro. In other words, Zac needs to respect the running game as an essential part of an offensive game plan.

i have said this for a while, Pollack has really found little success since Dallas days (when he had like four 1/2 rounders starting).  Lou has at least been successful, if it was not for his defense we don;t make the SB, i can;t say anything close to that for Pollack, we have invested in draft picks and Free agents.  The biggest sign Pollack has to go is the FAs are performing worse for us than their previous teams as a whole. It probably is time for Lou to go but it is way overtime for Pollack to go..

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 03:33 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i have said this for a while, Pollack has really found little success since Dallas days (when he had like four 1/2 rounders starting).  Lou has at least been successful, if it was not for his defense we don;t make the SB, i can;t say anything close to that for Pollack, we have invested in draft picks and Free agents.  The biggest sign Pollack has to go is the FAs are performing worse for us than their previous teams as a whole. It probably is time for Lou to go but it is way overtime for Pollack to go..

We could probably add Marion Hobby to that list as well. He's been handed quite a few of what most thought were quality draft picks that have failed for whatever reason to develop into household names or even solid, reliable starters. It's really an indictment of Hobby that the only two reliable DL on the team are guys we brought in from other teams. (Trey Hendrickson and BJ Hill)

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 03:26 PM)J24 Wrote: I don't think Lou is the main problem with the defense,to me It's a roster problem not coaching problem. With that being said a new voice should be had; the question is who. My bet would be Zimmer or Robert Livingston

yeah Zimmer is having a great year

[J24]

(Yesterday, 04:20 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: yeah Zimmer is having a great year

When he was with Atlanta(2007) the defense was 29th in both points and Yards. Then he came to Cincinnati and transformed the defense to one of the best units in the league for the next 6 seasons.

[Bilbo Saggins]

Eric Ghiacuc at center? Meh. Good enough!
Nate Livings at guard? Good enough for me!
Russell Bodine at center? Let's make him a staple!

The primary problem transcends coaching. It was the interior OL vs. Chris Jones that really tanked the Super Bowl. Someone at the keel of the ship just refuses to admit that they don't know what they are doing. 

I like ZT, think he's talented, but it looks like his special sauce has been figured out. He's getting his franchise QB hit too much for my liking. Lou has had some great moments, but his cover 3/cover 1 is not working with this batch of players. I'd imagine that this crop has hit its zenith. As time goes on it looks more like it was the Super Bowl season that was an outlier more than the losing seasons under this regime. I'd roll the dice on a blue chip HC. Especially one who could bring their own GM who would install a top down philosophy. 

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 04:20 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: yeah Zimmer is having a great year

Im guessing sarcasm here, since Cowboys defense worse than Bengals

[SunsetBengal]

(Today, 12:24 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Eric Ghiacuc at center? Meh. Good enough!
Nate Livings at guard? Good enough for me!
Russell Bodine at center? Let's make him a staple!

The primary problem transcends coaching. It was the interior OL vs. Chris Jones that really tanked the Super Bowl. Someone at the keel of the ship just refuses to admit that they don't know what they are doing. 

I like ZT, think he's talented, but it looks like his special sauce has been figured out. He's getting his franchise QB hit too much for my liking. Lou has had some great moments, but his cover 3/cover 1 is not working with this batch of players. I'd imagine that this crop has hit its zenith. As time goes on it looks more like it was the Super Bowl season that was an outlier more than the losing seasons under this regime. I'd roll the dice on a blue chip HC. Especially one who could bring their own GM who would install a top down philosophy. 

Do you mean Aaron Donald? But yeah, Chris Jones gives them fits as well.

[Sled21]

(Yesterday, 03:26 PM)J24 Wrote: I don't think Lou is the main problem with the defense,to me It's a roster problem not coaching problem. With that being said a new voice should be had; the question is who. My bet would be Zimmer or Robert Livingston

So, if it's not a coaching problem, but a roster problem (which I agree with you on) then why would you get rid of the coach instead of improving the roster?

[Sled21]

(Yesterday, 04:36 PM)J24 Wrote: When he was with Atlanta(2007) the defense was 29th in both points and Yards. Then he came to Cincinnati and transformed the defense to one of the best units in the league for the next 6 seasons.

I am a huge Mike Zimmer fan, and there was a time I was heartbroken he did not get a HC job here. But looking back at Marvin's teams, Zimmer always fielded a good 1PM defense. He was just like Marvin, in that his defense was never up for a Primetime, Playoff or a "coming off the bye" game. I don't want to go back to teams that shrink under the big lights.

[SunsetBengal]

(11 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: So, if it's not a coaching problem, but a roster problem (which I agree with you on)

It's both and they go hand in hand. From a roster standpoint, the Bengals have serious deficiencies on both sides of the line. Why is that so, the coaches have been given many draft picks and free agent acquisitions to work with and develop. For a length of time spanning two coaching staffs, failure to develop quality draft picks and get free agents to play up to standard (OL) has been an issue. That is on the coaches. 

It's easy to say that the simple solution is to just replace the 2 position coaches in question, but who has allowed them to continue down this course of failure for so long? Why haven't the coordinators stepped in and demanded better of the position coaches? Why hasn't the HC put his foot up the asses of the coordinators for allowing these failures to continue?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's both and they go hand in hand. From a roster standpoint, the Bengals have serious deficiencies on both sides of the line. Why is that so, the coaches have been given many draft picks and free agent acquisitions to work with and develop. For a length of time spanning two coaching staffs, failure to develop quality draft picks and get free agents to play up to standard (OL) has been an issue. That is on the coaches. 

It's easy to say that the simple solution is to just replace the 2 position coaches in question, but who has allowed them to continue down this course of failure for so long? Why haven't the coordinators stepped in and demanded better of the position coaches? Why hasn't the HC put his foot up the asses of the coordinators for allowing these failures to continue?

Is it though? What are Billy Price, Jake Fisher, Jackson Carman, and Cedric Ogbuehi up to these days?

Mims is looking the part, and Jonah was average. Otherwise, these draft picks on OL are bums. Straight bums. OBJr has played well, Karras has been good, Cappa just seems to have fallen off a cliff. You said it yourself, it's been a problem across multiple staffs. To me, that points SQUARELY to a "GM" problem. I'm not absolving the coaches totally, but you can only make so much chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[SunsetBengal]

(8 hours ago)Wyche Wrote: Is it though? What are Billy Price, Jake Fisher, Jackson Carman, and Cedric Ogbuehi up to these days?

Mims is looking the part, and Jonah was average. Otherwise, these draft picks on OL are bums. Straight bums. OBJr has played well, Karras has been good, Cappa just seems to have fallen off a cliff. You said it yourself, it's been a problem across multiple staffs. To me, that points SQUARELY to a "GM" problem. I'm not absolving the coaches totally, but you can only make so much chicken salad out of chicken shit.

I'll have to admit, Duke does have a knack for finding the bust when it comes to early OL picks. I still have a hard time thinking that all of these DL picks over the years were all bad luck. Since the days of Dunlap, Atkins, Peko and Johnson, there have been at least a couple of dozen players selected to play DL. Many of those picks, a lot of us were excited for. Not one single one has stuck, and developed into an All-Pro/Pro Bowl type of talent, in fact the only one to stick for any significant and impactful period of time is Sam Hubbard.

[J24]

(11 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: So, if it's not a coaching problem, but a roster problem (which I agree with you on) then why would you get rid of the coach instead of improving the roster?

To get a new voice in the locker room and new perspective at the position. I'm not against Lou coming back but I'm not against a new voice either.

(11 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: I am a huge Mike Zimmer fan, and there was a time I was heartbroken he did not get a HC job here. But looking back at Marvin's teams, Zimmer always fielded a good 1PM defense. He was just like Marvin, in that his defense was never up for a Primetime, Playoff or a "coming off the bye" game. I don't want to go back to teams that shrink under the big lights.

I'm not saying Zimmer should be the guy but Im saying he's probably the most realistic choice to replace Lou if the FO goes that route.

[SunsetBengal]

(8 hours ago)J24 Wrote: To get a new voice in the locker room and new perspective at the position. I'm not against Lou coming back but I'm not against a new voice either.
I'm not saying Zimmer should be the guy but Im saying he's probably the most realistic choice to replace Lou if the FO goes that route.

What makes you think that? Zimmer is having a terrible season, the Cowboys defense is as bad or worse than the Bengals defense. Personally, I think that Zimmer only went back to coordinator this year to keep his name relevant for head coaching positions that may be available this offseason.

[The D.O.Z.]

Would love Vrabel, but let’s not kid ourselves here. There will be several HC jobs available this upcoming cycle, he’s gonna get one. So I don’t see him as a realistic possibility.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(11 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: Do you mean Aaron Donald? But yeah, Chris Jones gives them fits as well.

Yup lol.  

There was the 2022 AFCCG that cost them a SB appearance.  I wonder if Chris Jones can be held accountable for that!

[SunsetBengal]

(6 hours ago)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Yup lol.  

There was the 2022 AFCCG that cost them a SB appearance.  I wonder if Chris Jones can be held accountable for that!

Only partially, the Bengals were in position to win that game, until an overzealous Joseph Ossai drew a personal foul for "hitting" Pat Mahommes out of bounds, giving them new life.

[chopperbobby]

None. We are just a few ping pong tables away from the superbowl