Reds 'kicking tires' on a couple of Guardians?

[Bengalholic]

The Cleveland Guardians are willing to trade Josh Naylor and Lane Thomas, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic.

"But it should surprise no one that Cleveland is open to trade offers for first baseman Josh Naylor and outfielder Lane Thomas, both of whom are entering their walk years," Rosenthal wrote on Thursday. "MLB Trade Rumors projects Naylor to earn $12 million in arbitration, Thomas $8.3 million."

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“The Reds have kicked the tires on” Josh Naylor and Lane Thomas in trade talks with the Guardians, according to Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer.  The Guards are known to be open to offers for either player, though there isn’t any indication that a deal with the Reds or anyone is particularly close.  Wittenmyer’s use of the “kicked the tires” phrasing might hint that this was more of an exploratory check-in for the Reds than a serious push for either Cleveland player.

[*bengalfan74*]

They need to do more than just kicking the tires. Not necessarily with these guys but somewhere. They've got some of the basics of a good team. But they desperately need to finish the deal and make the moves to be competitive.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Both are pretty bad outfielders defensively. Both FAs in '26, so 1-year rentals.

I think Thomas' bat is a 4th/5th OF type rather than a full-time starter, but I will say that Thomas has very strong splits batting and does quite well against lefties while being terrible against righties. If they were going to stick with Fraley in RF, Thomas does make sense as a platoon partner if they can't find a real full-time starter.

Naylor has a decently above average bat and defensively been a bit better at 1B. He would be an interesting 1-year rental but really only makes sense if they don't believe in CES.

[CJD]

Both players are in the final year of control, so if the Guardians view it as mostly a cost saving trade on their part (i.e. the prospect capital is minor), I think bringing in proven, quality bats is a really good idea.

I don't want to go into the season hoping Marte, CES, Candelario, and McLain all come back fully healthy and ready to play on day 1. We need multiple, quality back up plans if we hope to make a run at the post season this year.

[Bengalholic]

(12-09-2024, 11:21 AM)CJD Wrote: I don't want to go into the season hoping Marte, CES, Candelario, and McLain all come back fully healthy and ready to play on day 1. 

CES and McClain both looked really good in the Fall League...so fingers crossed. 

[CJD]

(12-09-2024, 02:47 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: CES and McClain both looked really good in the Fall League...so fingers crossed. 

If we trade for Thomas and Naylor and then CES and McClain break out and are all stars, that just means we have the best bench in the majors :).

If we don't trade for Thomas and Naylor and CES and McClain have Benson-esque regressions or still can't stay healthy, then we end up having to play Santiago Espinal for 350+ ABs again despite him producing a negative WAR value haha.

[Bengalholic]

(12-09-2024, 04:41 PM)CJD Wrote: If we trade for Thomas and Naylor and then CES and McClain break out and are all stars, that just means we have the best bench in the majors :).

If we don't trade for Thomas and Naylor and CES and McClain have Benson-esque regressions or still can't stay healthy, then we end up having to play Santiago Espinal for 350+ ABs again despite him producing a negative WAR value haha.

If they traded for Naylor, I wonder what they do with CES (assuming he's all good physically). He came up as a 3B with the Twins, but wasn't very good defensively. Maybe stick him at primarily DH for a season, Candelario starts at 3B and Marte goes to AAA until he can prove himself again. 

Naylor seems like he would be more likely to be traded, with Manzardo ready to take over at 1st. Their OF would be a mess if they trade Thomas, with Kwan being the only proven guy left...but who knows what they're thinking.

That would also means Steer in the OF, which I don't love, but not the worst option either.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-09-2024, 04:59 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If they traded for Naylor, I wonder what they do with CES (assuming he's all good physically). He came up as a 3B with the Twins, but wasn't very good defensively.

Maybe stick him at primarily DH for a season

We absolutely cannot use the DH as a dump spot yet again. We need an actual guaranteed productive hitter there. 

Our DHs had the 29th OPS in MLB last year, and they get to play in GABP. The DH became universal and the Reds basically went "would it feel like old times if we just played guys at DH who hit like pitchers?"

[Bengalholic]

(12-09-2024, 05:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We absolutely cannot use the DH as a dump spot yet again. We need an actual guaranteed productive hitter there. 

Our DHs had the 29th OPS in MLB last year, and they get to play in GABP. The DH became universal and the Reds basically went "would it feel like old times if we just played guys at DH who hit like pitchers?"

In the specific scenario where they added Naylor and CES is healthy to start the season...making him the DH wouldn't really be a 'dump spot' situation. It's a way to keep both bats in the lineup. 

[CJD]

(12-09-2024, 04:59 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If they traded for Naylor, I wonder what they do with CES (assuming he's all good physically). He came up as a 3B with the Twins, but wasn't very good defensively. Maybe stick him at primarily DH for a season, Candelario starts at 3B and Marte goes to AAA until he can prove himself again. 

Naylor seems like he would be more likely to be traded, with Manzardo ready to take over at 1st. Their OF would be a mess if they trade Thomas, with Kwan being the only proven guy left...but who knows what they're thinking.

That would also means Steer in the OF, which I don't love, but not the worst option either.

Yea, I was listening to a Reds podcast that suggested they trade for Naylor for a minor prospect (maybe low top 30) as a salary saving measure for Cleveland and then, if Naylor has a good year, give him a qualifying offer. If he accepts, then we'd get 2 years of Naylor for 36 million dollars, which is a bit pricey, but not horrible for a bat of his quality. If he declines, then we get that prospect back via compensatory draft pick.

[TecmoBengals]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but kicking the tires hasn't resulted in much. It's been a fairly quiet offseason. Is Francona enough to push the team into contention since there hasn't been much roster churning?

[samhain]

This ownership group is so exhausting to watch operate. They have a 3 or so year window to win with Elly and the gang. They're out here prospect-clutching when they've been in need of a real outfielder for 3 years. If you love your prospects so much, then pay a guy. Don't want to pay a guy, then trade some prospects.

The Cubs are acquiring difference makers right now. Between this team's mystification with playing Milwaukee and an enhanced Cubs roster, this division might not be the cakewalk some seemed to envision.

You don't need to sign big time FAs, but you need to do something.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-14-2024, 01:55 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I didn't want to start a new thread, but kicking the tires hasn't resulted in much. It's been a fairly quiet offseason. Is Francona enough to push the team into contention since there hasn't been much roster churning?

Same thing I've been thinking. Pretty much sitting on their hands....again

I let myself believe the Francona hiring was a sign they were going to change things. Perhaps not?

[samhain]

(Yesterday, 08:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Same thing I've been thinking. Pretty much sitting on their hands....again

I let myself believe the Francona hiring was a sign they were going to change things. Perhaps not?

It's getting sad listening to Locked on Reds.  It's IMO a genuinely better podcast than the Locked on Bengals, but those two fellas really have to make something out of nothing more than I'm guessing they'd like to.  They've been pimping Hernandez and Santander for months, a year in Teo's case.  

I think they really want to go full Cleveland here.  Minimal free agents, consistent prospect pipeline.  It's not a completely illegitimate plan.  Only problem is, in the event that you become a regular winner, when do you add something to get over the hump.  As far as Cleveland goes, pretty much never.  Also, teams like the Yankees and Dodgers have farms systems, too.  Good ones more often than not.  Any time we have a player to sell off, there's no shortage of high-end guys that this organizations try to avoid trading off.  

The big dogs not only sign free agents, they retain their prospects because they never have to sell them for magic beans.  The Reds followed the Houston/Atlanta tank model, right up until the stage where you need to get a guy that moves the needle.