A positive - Chase Brown

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-11-2024, 02:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's been that way since Taylor came on board.
Heck, the last time the Bengals had an actual good running attack, Jeremy Hill was a Bengal.

Do you think this is all because of Taylor is my question? He does go away from the run far too early for my liking. But I also don't know if
this is because of Burrow or what is going on in the game. OL usually like to run block more than pass block because they can play aggressive
and attack Defenders. For some reason we never see this with our OL's. Always in the Shotgun and passing much more than we run etc.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-10-2024, 02:03 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Hahaha, I guess!

I was glad when we drafted him. I had him as our breakout player before the season!

Me too

I believe C. Brown will be a productive part of this team for years to come. I don't think he's going to rewrite the record books. Just solid, and solid is all we need.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-11-2024, 07:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Me too

I believe C. Brown will be a productive part of this team for years to come. I don't think he's going to rewrite the record books. Just solid, and solid is all we need.

True, but if they actually put in any work at becoming a better running team, he could have some nice long gainers sprinkled in there a little more often.

[pulses]

(12-11-2024, 07:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True, but if they actually put in any work at becoming a better running team, he could have some nice long gainers sprinkled in there a little more often.

He has the potential to be a better version of Gio easily.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-11-2024, 05:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Do you think this is all because of Taylor is my question? He does go away from the run far too early for my liking. But I also don't know if
this is because of Burrow or what is going on in the game. OL usually like to run block more than pass block because they can play aggressive
and attack Defenders. For some reason we never see this with our OL's. Always in the Shotgun and passing much more than we run etc.

I think it's the blocking scheme/players involved in said blocking scheme, personally.
I've never thought they ran a good scheme that fit the strengths of the players they had (or brought in players that properly fit that scheme).
With that said, there are people way more experienced and knowledgeable on run blocking to say if that's accurate or not lol.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-11-2024, 07:36 PM)pulses Wrote: He has the potential to be a better version of Gio easily.

This sounds like forgetting how good of a pass catcher Gio was the first three years before he tore his ACL. He averaged 9.0 yards per catch and was a great pass protector. 

He'd have racked up insane stats if the Bengals were as pass-heavy as we are in the Taylor era. The Bengals already have 335 completions on 490 pass attempts in '24 after having 420 completions on 615 attempts in '23. For comparison in '15 for the entire season they had 334 completions on 505 attempts.

They ran the ball 467 times in '15 and so far this year we've run 283 times.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-11-2024, 07:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think it's the blocking scheme/players involved in said blocking scheme, personally.
I've never thought they ran a good scheme that fit the strengths of the players they had (or brought in players that properly fit that scheme).
With that said, there are people way more experienced and knowledgeable on run blocking to say if that's accurate or not lol.

I think that they simply just don't spend enough time working on being a good running offense. I think (that Zac thinks) if we have one of the best QBs in the league, I want the ball in his hands as much as possible. They have their timing down for the passing game, spend some time bringing the running attack up to par.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2024, 07:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True, but if they actually put in any work at becoming a better running team, he could have some nice long gainers sprinkled in there a little more often.

Oh for sure

He seems to possess that ability to turn 5 yd. runs into 12. And like wise 12 yard runs into 35. He has that extra gear, vision, making people miss ability we've lacked for awhile. And that's with a crappy line. Imagine with a good line.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2024, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that they simply just don't spend enough time working on being a good running offense. I think (that Zac thinks) if we have one of the best QBs in the league, I want the ball in his hands as much as possible. They have their timing down for the passing game, spend some time bringing the running attack up to par.

100% agree

It sure seems in may games like the running game is just a nuisance for Zac. He's like "well crap, lets throw a running play in now, if we have to?" Or in other words he doesn't believe in it at all.

And IMHO, that's a giant mistake

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2024, 05:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Do you think this is all because of Taylor is my question? He does go away from the run far too early for my liking. But I also don't know if
this is because of Burrow or what is going on in the game. OL usually like to run block more than pass block because they can play aggressive
and attack Defenders. For some reason we never see this with our OL's. Always in the Shotgun and passing much more than we run etc.

Right

You rarely if ever see our Oline being aggressive. Driving defenders 8-10 yards off the LOS. Pancaking people, blocking with heart and soul.

They're just kinda standing there like holy crap a running play, lets see if I can get in this dudes way for a second, then I'm quitting.

[sandwedge]

(12-11-2024, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that they simply just don't spend enough time working on being a good running offense. I think (that Zac thinks) if we have one of the best QBs in the league, I want the ball in his hands as much as possible. They have their timing down for the passing game, spend some time bringing the running attack up to par.

Aikman alluded to this on Sunday night. When you have Burrow, Chase and Higgins, you are not going to be a running team. Right now we have the 9th ranked offense in the NFL, kind of hard to argue with, we should running it more.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-11-2024, 11:43 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Aikman alluded to this on Sunday night. When you have Burrow, Chase and Higgins, you are not going to be a running team. Right now we have the 9th ranked offense in the NFL, kind of hard to argue with, we should running it more.

It would help close out more games.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2024, 11:43 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Aikman alluded to this on Sunday night. When you have Burrow, Chase and Higgins, you are not going to be a running team. Right now we have the 9th ranked offense in the NFL, kind of hard to argue with, we should running it more.

See it's not necessarily about running it more. Although I believe a few more runs a game average wouldn't hurt. What I mean is it's not about running it 60% of the time and passing 40%. 

It's about being more productive when running it. Being able to run in the red zone. Being able to pick up 3rd and two without throwing those stupid behind the LOS screens out of shotgun. Closing out games bleeding the clock. Keeping the D off the field.

There's more to winning football than 35 yard pass plays to Chase.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-12-2024, 01:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It would help close out more games.

Yes it would. It is tough to suddenly run the ball when you've been mostly passing all game. One thing that I've seen Zac do in the past is when they get an early lead and then the defense gets a rare three and out, is make that ensuing possession rushing dominant. When that happens, a lot of good things continue to happen for the offense as a result. The OL develops some rhythm, pass blocking improves as the play calling typically continues to be less predictable.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-11-2024, 07:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think it's the blocking scheme/players involved in said blocking scheme, personally.
I've never thought they ran a good scheme that fit the strengths of the players they had (or brought in players that properly fit that scheme).
With that said, there are people way more experienced and knowledgeable on run blocking to say if that's accurate or not lol.

Agree, I think it is the scheme as well as Zac being a QB with Joe being our franchise QB...

Mixture of all 3 why our running game struggles so. It honestly doesn't seem to be a priority which is a big mistake IMO.

(12-11-2024, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that they simply just don't spend enough time working on being a good running offense. I think (that Zac thinks) if we have one of the best QBs in the league, I want the ball in his hands as much as possible. They have their timing down for the passing game, spend some time bringing the running attack up to par.

Yeah, I have even heard this with Zac not wanting to take the ball out of Joe's hands which is honestly understandable. The problem is 
this puts a ton of pressure on Joe even if he thrives under pressure. If we could have a respectable running game it would take a lot of 
the pressure off of Joe and it would give Defenses much more headaches.

I couldn't imagine being a Defense and having to worry about a good running game on top of Joe Burrow and his accuracy in the passing
game with the best WR in the NFL!

(12-11-2024, 10:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

You rarely if ever see our Oline being aggressive. Driving defenders 8-10 yards off the LOS. Pancaking people, blocking with heart and soul.

They're just kinda standing there like holy crap a running play, lets see if I can get in this dudes way for a second, then I'm quitting.

Exactly, what I would give for an OL that plays right up to the whistle engaging DL with physicality... 

and I am sure the OL would love it as well and we would see more fire out of them to boot. Sabotaging the OL always being in the Shotgun
is not the way to reward an OL. I know Joe loves playing out of the Shotgun, but it should not be near as much as we do. Reward the OL once
and a while and let them go to work blocking in the run game late in games instead of abandoning it and it could change things.

I still remember what Cappa and Volson did blocking for the run at times, it was much better than we see now. Mims is also a good run blocker 
when he wants to be. Of course a lot of this is on Pollack too. A change at OL coach could do wonders as well as modifying the scheme to tailor
the OL's strengths.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-12-2024, 03:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, I have even heard this with Zac not wanting to take the ball out of Joe's hands which is honestly understandable. The problem is 
this puts a ton of pressure on Joe even if he thrives under pressure. If we could have a respectable running game it would take a lot of 
the pressure off of Joe and it would give Defenses much more headaches.

I couldn't imagine being a Defense and having to worry about a good running game on top of Joe Burrow and his accuracy in the passing
game with the best WR in the NFL!

A team still has to have an alternate strategy, for the reason you mentioned, and because nothing works exactly as it should all of the time and some days the opposing defense just has an answer for what you're wanting to do. The only way to have a good running game is to run the ball a significant portion of the time. Alternating drives as pass heavy and run heavy is a good way to achieve balance, or just calling a balanced game in general keeps the offense from being so predictable.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-11-2024, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that they simply just don't spend enough time working on being a good running offense. I think (that Zac thinks) if we have one of the best QBs in the league, I want the ball in his hands as much as possible. They have their timing down for the passing game, spend some time bringing the running attack up to par.

I believe it is combo of both ZT and Burrow.. as Aikman said, how can you not put the ball in Burrows hands, and i think ZT and Burrow both want that.. Also ive stated Burrow does not seem to want to go under center and do much play action, after now 5 years i think that is a given now...  As for running the ball, i think we overall we have been effective enough with Chase averaging 4.4 yards a carry.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-12-2024, 04:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: A team still has to have an alternate strategy, for the reason you mentioned, and because nothing works exactly as it should all of the time and some days the opposing defense just has an answer for what you're wanting to do. The only way to have a good running game is to run the ball a significant portion of the time. Alternating drives as pass heavy and run heavy is a good way to achieve balance, or just calling a balanced game in general keeps the offense from being so predictable.

Yes sir, gotta have a backup plan for when the passing game isn't working. Like you say, if the Defense has an answer, we need to have an answer
for their answer. A balanced game in general works for us, just watch early in games like against the Eagles, we were balanced early and when we 
went away from it is when the pressure was all on Joe and he threw a pick and that is when they pulled away. And this was our worst game of the
season, but who knows what would of happened if we kept doing what was working? 

I know, I know, Chase Brown fumbled, but he hasn't fumbled since as far as I know.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-12-2024, 04:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I believe it is combo of both ZT and Burrow.. as Aikman said, how can you not put the ball in Burrows hands, and i think ZT and Burrow both want that.. Also ive stated Burrow does not seem to want to go under center and do much play action, after now 5 years i think that is a given now...  As for running the ball, i think we overall we have been effective enough with Chase averaging 4.4 yards a carry.

Ehhh... sorta. It's a bit misleading because Brown doesn't really rush much at mid/short yardage where the defenses start compacting towards the LoS.

Saquon Barkley: 36.1% of his rushes were with less than 10 yards to go (5.5ypc on those carries) and 44% of those carries go for 1st downs
Derrick Henry: 40.8% of his rushes were with less than 10 yards to go (5.1ypc on those carries) and 49% of those carries go for 1st downs
Chase Brown: 30.1% of his rushes were with less than 10 yards to go (3.2ypc on those carries) and 36% of those carries go for 1st downs

Chase Brown gets good yardage on 1st and 10, likely because the defense's primary concern on that down is defending against the pass, but after that's it's pretty grim. Now part of that is OL, part of that is scheme, but part of that is him. If you're not asked as much to get tough yards because you can't get them, it's easier to look better.

He's still having a solid season, but he is absolutely not being asked to be an actual RB in this offense that doesn't like running and loves to throw even in short yardage situations. Chase Brown actually reminds me of Bernard Scott as far as his usage and productivity based off distance to-go.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-12-2024, 05:58 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ehhh... sorta. It's a bit misleading because Brown doesn't really rush much at mid/short yardage where the defenses start compacting towards the LoS.

Saquon Barkley: 36.1% of his rushes were with less than 10 yards to go (5.5ypc on those carries) and 44% of those carries go for 1st downs
Derrick Henry: 40.8% of his rushes were with less than 10 yards to go (5.1ypc on those carries) and 49% of those carries go for 1st downs
Chase Brown: 30.1% of his rushes were with less than 10 yards to go (3.2ypc on those carries) and 36% of those carries go for 1st downs

Chase Brown gets good yardage on 1st and 10, likely because the defense's primary concern on that down is defending against the pass, but after that's it's pretty grim. Now part of that is OL, part of that is scheme, but part of that is him. If you're not asked as much to get tough yards because you can't get them, it's easier to look better.

He's still having a solid season, but he is absolutely not being asked to be an actual RB in this offense that doesn't like running and loves to throw even in short yardage situations.

Good stuff, never expected Chase Brown to be a good short yardage back anyways honestly and I am surprised he has been this good at the
Goal line and punching it in. He is a small back that goes down pretty easily. His acceleration and speed are by far his best tools where he is 
dangerous. Just wish we had good IOL to truly see his talent. I would be using Herbert more on the short yardage plays. He is thicker and has
better vision than CB.