Wins vs Losses

[THE PISTONS]

(12-23-2024, 03:38 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: A lot of the defense needs improved. And both losses were talent related along with some coaching

We were up 21-7 in the 1st half in the 2nd Game. That's not talent related.

Then, once they fumbled...the same exact players that got that 21-7 game played bad.

No doubt the defense needs the talent improved, but we've lost these games for varying reasons. Some were clear talent related losses. Some other reasons.

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 04:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We were up 21-7 in the 1st half in the 2nd Game. That's not talent related.

Then, once they fumbled...the same exact players that got that 21-7 game played bad.

No doubt the defense needs the talent improved, but we've lost these games for varying reasons. Some were clear talent related losses. Some other reasons.

They didn’t have those problems in previous years. Same coaching staff

It’s a talent thing mainly

[THE PISTONS]

(12-23-2024, 04:03 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: They didn’t have those problems in previous years. Same coaching staff

It’s a talent thing mainly

I think our defense has been below average to bad most years under Lou, but they created turnovers at a higher rate and more sacks.

Last year our defense ranked 31st in yards allowed and 21st in points.

This year, we're 28th in yards allowed and 28th in points.

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 04:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think our defense has been below average to bad most years under Lou, but they created turnovers at a higher rate and more sacks.

Last year our defense ranked 31st in yards allowed and 21st in points.

This year, we're 28th in yards allowed and 28th in points.

the talent on defense compared to 21 and 22 is extremely noticeable even if you pull up stats that disagree. The talent on this defense is the issue with this team. They werent losing like this in 21 or 22. Hell, they werent losing like this in 23. 

It. Is. The. Talent. Rankins isnt Reader. Stone isnt Bates. Bell is bad. Pratt is exposed.

your stats on previous years mean nothing. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-23-2024, 04:16 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: the talent on defense compared to 21 and 22 is extremely noticeable even if you pull up stats that disagree. The talent on this defense is the issue with this team. They werent losing like this in 21 or 22. Hell, they werent losing like this in 23. 

It. Is. The. Talent. Rankins isnt Reader. Stone isnt Bates. Bell is bad. Pratt is exposed.

your stats on previous years mean nothing. 

IDK Frank, at least two members of the defense have publicly stated that once the defense was "simplified" they started playing better. Seems to me that coaching, and not talent, has the power to complicate/simplify a defensive scheme. (now, they never said what specifically was simplified. That could be the terminology, or the actual duties and responsibilities of defenders)

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 04:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: IDK Frank, at least two members of the defense have publicly stated that once the defense was "simplified" they started playing better. Seems to me that coaching, and not talent, has the power to complicate/simplify a defensive scheme. (now, they never said what specifically was simplified. That could be the terminology, or the actual duties and responsibilities of defenders)

that is such complete PR bull crap that youre buying. This defense has DOMINATED awful offenses ALL YEAR. Oh wow theyre on a 2 game winning streak against trash offenses and now everything is ok? Give me a break. They were talking about simplifying the defense weeks ago, and they still let up so many points to tennessee. 

stop falling for the late season nonsense

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-23-2024, 03:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Speaking of OL, I'm not sure how the Denver team financials are looking for this offseason, but Dalton Risner is set to be a FA. He could potentially be an upgrade at LG.

Been wanting Dalton Risner for years. Yes please...

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 04:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Been wanting Dalton Risner for years. Yes please...

hey optimist nathaniel, you gave me a thumbs down(no surprise)

answer me this since you disagree... Has this bengals defense dominated trash offenses and qb's all year long? I mean, they held the pats to 16. Thats good. Giants held to 7, Browns 14, cowboys 20, raiders scored 24, but 14 of those came in garbage time 4th quarter..

tell me where Im wrong, because it looks to me like this defense has created turnovers and beat terrible offenses all year long..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-23-2024, 05:03 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: hey optimist nathaniel, you gave me a thumbs down(no surprise)

answer me this since you disagree... Has this bengals defense dominated trash offenses and qb's all year long? I mean, they held the pats to 16. Thats good. Giants held to 7, Browns 14, cowboys 20, raiders scored 24, but 14 of those came in garbage time 4th quarter..

tell me where Im wrong, because it looks to me like this defense has created turnovers and beat terrible offenses all year long..

Hey Frankie angel, you aren't wrong. Talent is a problem here, but coaching is also a major problem. Lou's Defenses have to rely on turnovers
to be good, otherwise they are terrible. I gave you thumbs down cuz you are an ass hole about it lol

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 05:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey Frankie angel, you aren't wrong. Talent is a problem here, but coaching is also a major problem. Lou's Defenses have to rely on turnovers
to be good, otherwise they are terrible. I gave you thumbs down cuz you are an ass hole about it lol

ok good, so this simplification of the defense excuse is nonsense. They've beat up on bad offenses all year. You dominate another bad offense and suddenly its because the DC changed his philosiphy? It's illogical

[THE PISTONS]

(12-23-2024, 04:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that is such complete PR bull crap that youre buying. This defense has DOMINATED awful offenses ALL YEAR. Oh wow theyre on a 2 game winning streak against trash offenses and now everything is ok? Give me a break. They were talking about simplifying the defense weeks ago, and they still let up so many points to tennessee. 

stop falling for the late season nonsense

I don't think people are saying things are ok. I think literally everyone is talking about how bad the defense is. The question is if it's talent, scheme, mentality, etc.

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 05:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't think people are saying things are ok. I think literally everyone is talking about how bad the defense is. The question is if it's talent, scheme, mentality, etc.

and im saying this defense was never this bad in 21 22 or even 23. And all signs are pointing to bad draft picks, and bad free agent pick ups. Doesnt help that Hubbard and Bell fell off a cliff

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-23-2024, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Both of this is true. If you cannot see the difference in the way the team is playing right now than early in the season I don't know what to say.

Our Defense needs to clean up the tackling, this is the problem. We are still relying on turnovers to win under Lou and this is why he needs to go.

Still, if we somehow make the Playoffs I know the Chiefs and Bills don't want to face a Burrow lead team with an opportunistic Defense.

Nate I see what you're saying and agree a little bit, but.

The thing is we just got done beating two of the worst teams in the NFL. I'm waayyy far away from being sold that Stone and Bell just flipped on the switch and became top tier defenders again. I'm not sold that Jenkins and Jackson are ready to roll as our starting Dline. The only somewhat decent team we've beat is the Cowboys with a backup QB.

It's smoke and mirrors

If we can move the ball on Denver, a good D. And stop their O and win. I might start believing a bit. Right now I'm highly skeptical that this team - besides of course JB, JC, TH, CB, and Trey are that good. Dead cat bounce

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-23-2024, 05:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't think people are saying things are ok. I think literally everyone is talking about how bad the defense is. The question is if it's talent, scheme, mentality, etc.

All of the above

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 05:45 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Nate I see what you're saying and agree a little bit, but.

The thing is we just got done beating two of the worst teams in the NFL. I'm waayyy far away from being sold that Stone and Bell just flipped on the switch and became top tier defenders again. I'm not sold that Jenkins and Jackson are ready to roll as our starting Dline. The only somewhat decent team we've beat is the Cowboys with a backup QB.

It's smoke and mirrors

If we can move the ball on Denver, a good D. And stop their O and win. I might start believing a bit. Right now I'm highly skeptical that this team - besides of course JB, JC, TH, CB, and Trey are that good. Dead cat bounce

people are looking at murphy, ossai, battle, and stone playing better, and want to put all the blame on Lou for how bad tjose guys have been beforehand. They cant admit that maybe Stone was a bad get, or murphy was a bad draft pick. They want to point the finger at Lou and think the front office knows how to find talent. You know, the cheap front office with 2 or 3 scouts

[*bfine32*]

(12-23-2024, 03:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The question wasn't "who would the Ravens prefer to play". The question dealt with what playoff team would fear facing the Bengals right now. I just noticed that the Ravens have a firm lock on the #5 seed, and that is who the Bengals would play should they sneak in.

Yeah, I was responding to the part you threw in of asserting the Ravens wouldn't be nervous to face the Bengals. I'd venture to suggest they'd be a hell of a lot more nervous facing a team that took them to OT and they beat because of a blatant no call on a 2-point conversion than they would facing a team they beat by 31

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-23-2024, 05:32 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: ok good, so this simplification of the defense excuse is nonsense. They've beat up on bad offenses all year. You dominate another bad offense and suddenly its because the DC changed his philosiphy? It's illogical

At least bad Offenses didn't torch them again like the stealers did...

(12-23-2024, 05:37 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: and im saying this defense was never this bad in 21 22 or even 23. And all signs are pointing to bad draft picks, and bad free agent pick ups. Doesnt help that Hubbard and Bell fell off a cliff

Also points to poor coaching with the poor tackling. This is also a coaching issue, to say it isn't is being ignorant.

Lou is a problem, he had 2 weeks to prepare for a check down stealers Offense and he let them torch us for 44 points.

(12-23-2024, 05:45 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Nate I see what you're saying and agree a little bit, but.

The thing is we just got done beating two of the worst teams in the NFL. I'm waayyy far away from being sold that Stone and Bell just flipped on the switch and became top tier defenders again. I'm not sold that Jenkins and Jackson are ready to roll as our starting Dline. The only somewhat decent team we've beat is the Cowboys with a backup QB.

It's smoke and mirrors

If we can move the ball on Denver, a good D. And stop their O and win. I might start believing a bit. Right now I'm highly skeptical that this team - besides of course JB, JC, TH, CB, and Trey are that good. Dead cat bounce

Yeah, we will know more Saturday like I said. Denver is a good team and built well in the trenches with a good HC in Sean Payton.

Burrow and this Offense can move the ball on anyone, it will come down to scoring TD's in this game. Will our Defense be able to actually
stop them without relying on turnovers is the biggest question to me. Bo Nix has his confidence and is playing decent right now and Sutton
is a stud WR and they have a couple really good RB's.

[Frank Booth]

(12-23-2024, 06:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Also points to poor coaching with the poor tackling. This is also a coaching issue, to say it isn't is being ignorant.

Lou is a problem, he had 2 weeks to prepare for a check down stealers Offense and he let them torch us for 44 points.

the tackling was never this bad in 21 22 and 23. It just wasnt. and you should know by now that things get strange in divisional games. How many times has an inferior browns team beat cincinnati? exactly

[Soonerpeace]

(12-23-2024, 12:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It absolutely tells the story. The story is that good teams find ways to win those close games. It's the NFL, where a majority of games are close.

Well anybody calling this a good team is silly. The offense is solid but the defense just isn’t.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-23-2024, 06:22 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: the tackling was never this bad in 21 22 and 23. It just wasnt. and you should know by now that things get strange in divisional games. How many times has an inferior browns team beat cincinnati? exactly

You're right, tackling this season has been the poorest that I can remember for some time. That is also a twofold problem, the players for not executing proper form, and the coaches for allowing it to continue all season long. One would think that a competent DC would be rewinding those sorry attempts at tackling, over and over during team film sessions and putting a foot up someone's back side.