Grade the current (last 5 years) FO

[TecmoBengals]

(Yesterday, 03:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Making playoffs is not good, it's minimum expectation to being ok. 14 teams out of 32 (43.75%) make the playoffs.

and they aren't even making the playoffs anymore. It's why the roster needs more improvement.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: As I have said numerous times in the thread, I tried to change the poll options and can't. The mistake I made was I was not doing letter grades so that should have never been in the poll options.

But lovely how many want to derail the thread and poll. There are lots of options to choose, 6 in fact.

I voted and voiced concern over the grading system.

No derailing. 

The FO is a D grade, which some deem as average.

[*pally*]

(Yesterday, 09:16 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree, but I am curious of what you would say were the worst 5 decisions since 2020 (the timeframe of the poll and discussion)?

1) Letting Jessie Bates walk
2) delaying contract extensions for both Tee and Ja'Marr
3) The whole Trey Hendrickson situation
4) Lack of coaching staff turnover
5) Continued lack of proactive communication with players and fans

[likwit19]

(Yesterday, 04:54 PM)pally Wrote: 1) Letting Jessie Bates walk
2) delaying contract extensions for both Tee and Ja'Marr
3) The whole Trey Hendrickson situation
4) Lack of coaching staff turnover
5) Continued lack of proactive communication with players and fans

I'd submit the following:

1. Letting Jessie Bates walk
2. Letting Joe Burrow get hit dozens and dozens of times each year (failing to improve IOL)
3. Rankins over Reader
4. The whole Trey Hendrickson situation
5. The Dax Hill experiment 

[George Cantstandya]

They get an F- for making the players walk across a street to get to the practice field.

[NotBigzo]

Assberries.

[reuben.ahmed]

are you reading this duke Tobin I hope so you make too much money to not feel responsibility lol

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 04:54 PM)pally Wrote: 1) Letting Jessie Bates walk
2) delaying contract extensions for both Tee and Ja'Marr
3) The whole Trey Hendrickson situation
4) Lack of coaching staff turnover
5) Continued lack of proactive communication with players and fans

I agree with Bates and would as important letting Reader go and thinking Rankins could replace him. I am not sure the TEE and Jamar contracts negatively impacted their performance, they were great whe healthy, Tee just could not stay healthy.

I won't pass jusgement on Trey and until the dust settles. Most teams have contract issues, it is the business portion. Watt has yet to show up to camp yet either, it happens more than people relize around the league.

I agree Lou and the OL coaches had to long a leash.

I am a former season ticket holder and they still send me communication, i think the young ins have changed Bengals PR for the better.

TY for sharing, we may ot agree on top 5, but no doubt we have at least 5 bad decisions the past 5 years.

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

(Today, 01:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree with Bates and would as important letting Reader go and thinking Rankins could replace him. I am not sure the TEE and Jamar contracts negatively impacted their performance, they were great whe healthy, Tee just could not stay healthy.

I won't pass jusgement on Trey and until the dust settles. Most teams have contract issues, it is the business portion. Watt has yet to show up to camp yet either, it happens more than people relize around the league.

I agree Lou and the OL coaches had to long a leash.

I am a former season ticket holder and they still send me communication, i think the young ins have changed Bengals PR for the better.

TY for sharing, we may ot agree on top 5, but no doubt we have at least 5 bad decisions the past 5 years.

It's not about the impact on performance (at least in my opinion) in terms of why it was a mistake. It's about the 10's of millions waiting cost us. Though, it looks like we wouldn't be spending any access cash anyways so maybe none of it matters!

[Luvnit2]

(9 hours ago)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: It's not about the impact on performance (at least in my opinion) in terms of why it was a mistake. It's about the 10's of millions waiting cost us. Though, it looks like we wouldn't be spending any access cash anyways so maybe none of it matters!

I get confused, one post by fans says we should have screwed Chase and Tee into giving them less money, then I see FO being berated for the Trey contract.

Can't have it both ways. Chase could have been back this year holding out if we saved those 10's of millions in 2024, he would already be underpaid right.

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 03:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I suggest the 2 of you start yur own thread and maybe then you get your desired result of majoirty of fans think the FO is the worst or close to the worst in the NFL.

I have no idea how ZT, JB, Katie or Duke can or should be held accountable for things from 40 years ago?

You realize Duke Tobin has been the Director of Player Personnel for the Bengals and head of their scouting since 1999. Do you know how many years of experience in scouting he had before the Bengals job?



One year of scouting experience.

[Whatever]

(Yesterday, 03:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals haven't been "good" in nearly 3 years now.
Good, to me, is deep playoff run.
Making playoffs is not good, it's minimum expectation to being ok. 14 teams out of 32 (43.75%) make the playoffs.

With that said, some people like going to the games even if the team is doing poorly. Tailgating and the football atmosphere are fun for them, regardless whether the team wins or loses.

There's a lot of new for this 2025 team compared to the previous years.
New DC, new position coaches, some new (mid-tier) FAs, few draft picks (some more risk-reward than others).
Some folks naturally are more positive when it comes to new and the unknown, some are more hesitant until they can see it with their own eyes.

I can understand why different people look at the exact same thing and vary on whether something is good or not. It's all subjective and up to the expectations they want to set for themselves.

Yeah, see to me, "good" is a one and done playoff team.  Like, the '11-'15 teams were good.  Deep playoff runs would be great and a conference championship is excellent.  

So when I'm looking at it, '20  was bad,  '23-'24 were average to slightly above average(still 9-8 and a winning record despite missing the playoffs), '22 was great, and '21 excellent.  

[Bengalion]

C - They suck at building competent coaching staffs. Suck at contracts, whether inside the team or trying to sign outside players. They were fortunate to finish last in the same year Burrow entered the draft, which is the only reason we remain competitive.

[Whatever]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I get confused, one post by fans says we should have screwed Chase and Tee into giving them less money, then I see FO being berated for the Trey contract.

Can't have it both ways. Chase could have been back this year holding out if we saved those 10's of millions in 2024, he would already be underpaid right.

I wouldn't call that the same thing.

If they signed Chase last year, then he came back this year wanting more money, that would be more akin to Trey's situation, even though I'm sure few would have his side.

[*rfaulk34*]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I get confused, one post by fans says we should have screwed Chase and Tee into giving them less money, then I see FO being berated for the Trey contract.

Can't have it both ways. Chase could have been back this year holding out if we saved those 10's of millions in 2024, he would already be underpaid right.

It has nothing to do with having it both ways.

If you pay Ja'Marr what his market value was (<----note the words "market value"), last year, you save yourself millions of dollars because his market value is going to go up every year. 


If the front office was smart and not so frugal, they could have paid him more than Jefferson, last year, knowing the salary cap is going up and before he blew up and won the triple crown and they would have saved themselves millions and millions of dollars, allowing them to have more money for the cap this year. 

How it pertains to Trey is, if they would have paid him market value last year...or whenever it was they extended him...he'd be under contract for multiple years, at a higher rate that is commensurate with his production and they wouldn't be looking at paying him more money right now. 

If they had done these contracts when they could have, they'd be sitting pretty and looking like a super smart organization that gets their guys under contract in a comfortable cap.

[*rfaulk34*]

(8 hours ago)Whatever Wrote: I wouldn't call that the same thing.

If they signed Chase last year, then he came back this year wanting more money, that would be more akin to Trey's situation, even though I'm sure few would have his side.

If Chase signs a contract, last year, that's the top non-QB contract and tries to come back in 1 or 2 years for more money i know that i'm not on his side and i have a hard time believing many fans would be. 

If you're underpaid it's one thing. If you're adequately compensated, it's another. 

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: It has nothing to do with having it both ways.

If you pay Ja'Marr what his market value was (<----note the words "market value"), last year, you save yourself millions of dollars because his market value is going to go up every year. 


If the front office was smart and not so frugal, they could have paid him more than Jefferson, last year, knowing the salary cap is going up and before he blew up and won the triple crown and they would have saved themselves millions and millions of dollars, allowing them to have more money for the cap this year. 

How it pertains to Trey is, if they would have paid him market value last year...or whenever it was they extended him...he'd be under contract for multiple years, at a higher rate that is commensurate with his production and they wouldn't be looking at paying him more money right now. 

If they had done these contracts when they could have, they'd be sitting pretty and looking like a super smart organization that gets their guys under contract in a comfortable cap.

So your argument is if we would have the Chase contract sooner, then he would be happy as can be when a year later Garrett gets paid a massive contract. It is both ways, Trey was paid market value with the 2022 extension, then he said no I want the 2025 market value and the 2022 market vlaue should be ignored.

Potentially if Chase was paid 34 million AVG in 2024, he would be wanted a new contract sooner than later or would become a distraction.

You wourself keep speaking of marekt value, contracts are agreed upon based on the current market value, but you want to say Trey was not paid fairly, yet he had yet to consistently get double digit sacks in 2022, a point you seem to ignore with his 2022 market value. He was paid based on his prior years acheivements, not what he may do in the future.

[*ochocincos*]

Hendrickson and Watt are both holding out for new contracts.
Garrett signed a 4-year, $160 mill contract this offseason and turns 30 in December.

And since Hendrickson joined the Bengals in 2021, here are the NFL leaders in sacks:
Garrett - 60.0
Watt - 58.5
Hendrickson - 57.0

Hunter and Crosby both signed new contracts for $35.5 and $35.6 mill this offseason as well, and neither is consistently as good as Hendrickson.

The Bengals have to start at least at $35 mill APY, honestly, to even be considered at this point.
I would argue a 2-year, $85 mill extension on top of what he's making this year ($21 mill) would be at least getting close, putting his 2025-2027 APY to $35.3 mill.

[*rfaulk34*]

(8 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: So your argument is if we would have the Chase contract sooner, then he would be happy as can be when a year later Garrett gets paid a massive contract. It is both ways, Trey was paid market value with the 2022 extension, then he said no I want the 2025 market value and the 2022 market vlaue should be ignored.

Potentially if Chase was paid 34 million AVG in 2024, he would be wanted a new contract sooner than later or would become a distraction.

You wourself keep speaking of marekt value, contracts are agreed upon based on the current market value, but you want to say Trey was not paid fairly, yet he had yet to consistently get double digit sacks in 2022, a point you seem to ignore with his 2022 market value. He was paid based on his prior years acheivements, not what he may do in the future.

What a waste of time. When will i learn?

You don't want the truth. You just want to keep pushing your narrative that the FO is something it's not. 

Bye Felicia.

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 04:18 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: and they aren't even making the playoffs anymore. It's why the roster needs more improvement.

They have not made the playoffs the past two years because of significant and lingering injuries to their starting quarterback..injuries to key players on both the defensive and offensive side of the ball..actually it is quite remarkable that they finished lastt year with a winning record when you consider the aforementioned injuries