“I don’t want to pay more money for the same team”

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 07:56 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Bengals could have signed multiple free agents. They could do longer deals to spread the cap, void years, cut more players.

They didn’t do enough to win a superbowl, and that means it’s a wasted year. I’ll still watch every single game and hope to be proven wrong.

If you want a snap shot of the reason we’ve not won the Super Bowl is our drafting 2022-24. Out of the first 3 picks or a total of 12 during that period how many will ever make a Pro Bowl? Maybe Mims. Hill took 2 years to start. Murphy? CTB is a starter but a JAG.

[J24]

(Yesterday, 08:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: If you want a snap shot of the reason we’ve not won the Super Bowl is our drafting 2022-24. Out of the first 3 picks or a total of 12 during that period how many will ever make a Pro Bowl? Maybe Mims. Hill took 2 years to start. Murphy? CTB is a starter but a JAG.

To add on to your point about drafting.
In 2021 we drafted Jackson Carmen over Creed Humphrey in the second and Dante Smith(4th)& Trey Hill(6th) over Trey Smith. In addition we drafted Joseph Ossai over one of Alim Mcneil, Milton Williams, or Osa Odighizuwa. 

All 5 of those players are at least making  18 million per a year and 4 are making 20 million per a year.
 Creed Humphrey has been a top 5 C for the first 4 seasons in the NFL.
Trey Smith has been a top 15 G for all 4 of his seasons.
Osa, Milton, and Alim McNeil were all top 20 in DT pressures last season.


In 2022 we drafted Zach Carter over Kerby Joseph  in the third and Cordell Volson over Zach Tom in the 4th.. 

Kerby lead the league in picks last season  and Tom was a top 5 T according to PFF! Also both players just got paid big extensions.

If we just get 2 of those picks right we probably win multiple Superbowls in the past 4 seasons.

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 01:50 PM)jason Wrote: I'm not going to look it up but I bet most every team lost x amount of games by x amount of marginal points. That's not an indication of being really close to being really good. It just means you're not winning games. The drubbing that Philly laid on the Bengals last year is an outlier. Most games are decided by a few points.

I won't look this up but i also doubt any team last year  lost three games with an average lost of less than 2 points to top tier teams in the NFL . Normally when teams evaluate how to improve from one year to another year they do look at their losses , types of losses and especially those division/conference teams that they need to beat to get to playoffs and compete for SB. 

I agree though most are decided by a few points or really one to two possessions that could have gone either way because the talent overall is that close in the NFL which also means you don;t have to blow up rosters year to year to be competitive and change can happen within your coaching staff not just your roster that can make that difference also.

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 08:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: If you want a snap shot of the reason we’ve not won the Super Bowl is our drafting 2022-24. Out of the first 3 picks or a total of 12 during that period how many will ever make a Pro Bowl? Maybe Mims. Hill took 2 years to start. Murphy? CTB is a starter but a JAG.

i agree the draft is very important to a team  continued success but so is also allowing a good evaluation of your draft picks over their rookie contract.  It is also very hard to hit Pro Bowlers on your draft picks.  So i looked at our division which is where drafting is very important since if you don;t compete in your division makes it hard to make playoffs. So in your snapshot of drafts (2022-2024) , only Baltimore had three pro bowlers ( Linderbaum (2), Flowers (1) and Hamiton (1) from those drafts so far, Steelers, Browns and Bengals had zero. Also looked at the other top dogs in the AFC, KC has zero and Bills had (1) in Pro Bowl.  

So outside of Baltimore, we are pretty much in the same boat as Pitts, KC and Bills one.  Also your math did not add up, 2022-2024 we had 10 picks, Balt, KC, Bills had 9 and Steelers had 11.

[Soonerpeace]

(8 hours ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: i agree the draft is very important to a team  continued success but so is also allowing a good evaluation of your draft picks over their rookie contract.  It is also very hard to hit Pro Bowlers on your draft picks.  So i looked at our division which is where drafting is very important since if you don;t compete in your division makes it hard to make playoffs. So in your snapshot of drafts (2022-2024) , only Baltimore had three pro bowlers ( Linderbaum (2), Flowers (1) and Hamiton (1) from those drafts so far, Steelers, Browns and Bengals had zero. Also looked at the other top dogs in the AFC, KC has zero and Bills had (1) in Pro Bowl.  

So outside of Baltimore, we are pretty much in the same boat as Pitts, KC and Bills one.  Also your math did not add up, 2022-2024 we had 10 picks, Balt, KC, Bills had 9 and Steelers had 11.

My math wasn’t wrong but left off ‘21. And that adds Chase. But after church I’ll look at starters vs pro bowl. You have to agree 3 real starters out of 12?

[Soonerpeace]

(8 hours ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: i agree the draft is very important to a team  continued success but so is also allowing a good evaluation of your draft picks over their rookie contract.  It is also very hard to hit Pro Bowlers on your draft picks.  So i looked at our division which is where drafting is very important since if you don;t compete in your division makes it hard to make playoffs. So in your snapshot of drafts (2022-2024) , only Baltimore had three pro bowlers ( Linderbaum (2), Flowers (1) and Hamiton (1) from those drafts so far, Steelers, Browns and Bengals had zero. Also looked at the other top dogs in the AFC, KC has zero and Bills had (1) in Pro Bowl.  

So outside of Baltimore, we are pretty much in the same boat as Pitts, KC and Bills one.  Also your math did not add up, 2022-2024 we had 10 picks, Balt, KC, Bills had 9 and Steelers had 11.

Went back and according to projected depth charts the Ravens have 9 starters from their top 3 picks in drafts ‘21-24. We have 4. Ours are Chase, CTB, Hill, Mims. Among theirs are Kyle Hamilton, Bateman, Flowers, Linderbaum

[Essex Johnson]

(8 hours ago)Soonerpeace Wrote: My math wasn’t wrong but left off ‘21. And that adds Chase. But after church I’ll look at starters vs pro bowl. You have to agree 3 real starters out of 12?

So change the narrative if you want but you stated pro bowl impact players and you have to agree that even our division teams outside of Batimore plus KC and Bills have done like us pretty much. 

[Soonerpeace]

(6 hours ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: So change the narrative if you want but you stated pro bowl impact players and you have to agree that even our division teams outside of Batimore plus KC and Bills have done like us pretty much. 

I’ve posted this on this board a dozen times. I’ll find them. Yes I said Pro Bowl but the other 11 times I’ve said starters. The bottom line is the bottom line. Don’t give 2 craps about Pitt or the Browns. The narrative is our poor drafting in the first 3 rounds in 21-24. If you are a supporter of those drafts then we will definitely disagree. The Ravens got 9 starters we got 4 out of those 12. Our drafting hasn’t been good. The Ravens 9 starters vs our 4 for 21-24 on rookie deals helps them immensely

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 08:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Only in your mind did the Brown family make adequate moves to get the bengals a super bowl

Evidence points to a lot of weird stuff going on in his mind. 

[Essex Johnson]

(6 hours ago)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve posted this on this board a dozen times. I’ll find them. Yes I said Pro Bowl but the other 11 times I’ve said starters. The bottom line is the bottom line. Don’t give 2 craps about Pitt or the Browns. The narrative is our poor drafting in the first 3 rounds in 21-24. If you are a supporter of those drafts then we will definitely disagree. The Ravens got 9 starters we got 4 out of those 12. Our drafting hasn’t been good. The Ravens 9 starters vs our 4 for 21-24 on rookie deals helps them immensely

Look i was just responded to your post to show you that even the better teams in AFC plus our division which i do believe it important have not had much or any success with pro bowlers outside of Balt.  As for starters, way too many variables go into looking at team and who starts and does not in rookie to year 3rd but seen you looked at the Ravens, right now 8 to 9 players from 22-24 are expected to start, if you include 21, looking at 9 to 10. Final comment on this, ive stated numerous times, you will need to weight till 3rd/4th year to evaluate a player, development does not end when they leave college, some players take time to adjust or develop to the level of the NFL, others like say Burton has growing pains and issues which can make their start of careeer less than desireable, 

[Soonerpeace]

(2 hours ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: Look i was just responded to your post to show you that even the better teams in AFC plus our division which i do believe it important have not had much or any success with pro bowlers outside of Balt.  As for starters, way too many variables go into looking at team and who starts and does not in rookie to year 3rd but seen you looked at the Ravens, right now 8 to 9 players from 22-24 are expected to start, if you include 21, looking at 9 to 10. Final comment on this, ive stated numerous times, you will need to weight till 3rd/4th year to evaluate a player, development does not end when they leave college, some players take time to adjust or develop to the level of the NFL, others like say Burton has growing pains and issues which can make their start of careeer less than desireable, 

Duke said we can’t wait on rookies to contribute. It’s one of the reasons Lou is gone. There’s discussion that we didn’t do enough in the off season to build a better roster. If you look at KC & Balt they have a lot of draft hits the years 21-24. I like this draft. But we need rookies to start Sooner on rookie deals to help our salary cap. My point is many are missing the reality. Our drafting has been meh.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/draft.htm

[Essex Johnson]

(1 hour ago)Soonerpeace Wrote: Duke said we can’t wait on rookies to contribute. It’s one of the reasons Lou is gone. There’s discussion that we didn’t do n the off season to build a better roster. If  you look at KC & Balt they have a lot of draft hits the years 21-24. I like this draft. But we need rookies to start Sooner on rookie deals to help our salary cap. My point is many are missing the reality. Our drafting has been meh.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/draft.htm

opinions are like butts, we all have them...  we just see things different when it comes to drafts, development etc.. regardless lets hope for a fast start with a 2-0 start regardless who is playing or not. 

[Soonerpeace]

(1 hour ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: opinions are like butts, we all have them...  we just see things different when it comes to drafts development etc.. regardless lets hope for a fast start with a 2-0 start regardless who is playing or not. 

That we do

[ERIC1]

(1 hour ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: opinions are like butts, we all have them...  we just see things different when it comes to drafts, development etc.. regardless lets hope for a fast start with a 2-0 start regardless who is playing or not. 

Wasnt tom brady a fifth round draft pick...aside from the first 30-40 picks..for the most part its a crap shoot you never know..hope for the best plan for worst....time for dinner than poker night..,have a great evening