How about AJ McCarron

[Joelist]

They're both under contract - the only way Hue takes one to Cleveland is via the trade route.

[Brownshoe]

(01-13-2016, 08:19 PM)Beaker Wrote: So a better achievement would have been losses?

Nice strawman you have there.

A better achievement would be to actually be able to score points when you get the ball on your side of the field. I just find it sad that McCarron has to get the ball on the opponents side of the field to score points. Like I said about 60% of McCarrons points come from when the ball is on the opponents side of the field. I doubt there is any QB in the league that is even anywhere near that %.

[Beaker]

(01-13-2016, 08:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Nice strawman you have there.

A better achievement would be to actually be able to score points when you get the ball on your side of the field. I just find it sad that McCarron has to get the ball on the opponents side of the field to score points. Like I said about 60% of McCarrons points come from when the ball is on the opponents side of the field. I doubt there is any QB in the league that is even anywhere near that %.

How many other QBs in the league were making their 1,2 or 3rd starts?

[Brownshoe]

(01-13-2016, 08:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: How many other QBs in the league were making their 1,2 or 3rd starts?

Name me one QB that had that % in the last 10 years on their first 4 starts. I bet you don't find one that even has 40% of their points coming from that.

[Beaker]

(01-13-2016, 08:28 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Name me one QB that had that % in the last 10 years on their first 4 starts. I bet you don't find one that even has 40% of their points coming from that.

Wins is all that matters....and he got 2 out of 3. And he also brought them back from 15 points down in the 4th quarter in the playoffs. Would have gotten that win too if.....well, you know the rest.

[Brownshoe]

(01-13-2016, 08:32 PM)Beaker Wrote: Wins is all that matters....and he got 2 out of 3. And he also brought them back from 15 points down in the 4th quarter in the playoffs. Would have gotten that win too if.....well, you know the rest.

Wins is all that matters?? I'll remember that haha.

One big reason we lost in the WC with McCarron is because we scored 0 points in the first 3 quarters. I mean for christ sake he only had 2 first downs in the first half of the game. Not 2 3rd down conversions. 2 first downs total against the 30th rated pass defense. Not to mention 3 fumbles and 1 INT in the game.

[Beaker]

(01-13-2016, 08:39 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Wins is all that matters?? I'll remember that haha.

One big reason we lost in the WC with McCarron is because we scored 0 points in the first 3 quarters. I mean for christ sake he only had 2 first downs in the first half of the game. Not 2 3rd down conversions. 2 first downs total against the 30th rated pass defense. Not to mention 3 fumbles and 1 INT in the game.

Wins.......they is all that matters.

Starting field position, first down conversions, scoring drive distances, I don't care if we're on the wrong side of all of them as long as we get the W.

[McC]

A guy could go 0-20 with 10 picks and fumble ten times and if he puts up 16 in the 4th quarter and walks off the field with the lead at about the two minute warning of a playoff game for a team that had not won one of those in 25 years, stats be damned, I call that getting the job done.

[Millhouse]

(01-13-2016, 08:39 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Wins is all that matters?? I'll remember that haha.

One big reason we lost in the WC with McCarron is because we scored 0 points in the first 3 quarters. I mean for christ sake he only had 2 first downs in the first half of the game. Not 2 3rd down conversions. 2 first downs total against the 30th rated pass defense. Not to mention 3 fumbles and 1 INT in the game.

The rest of the offense (oline & rush attack), didnt help much, if at all, either. And in the downpour conditions, fans should be more irate about their play instead of the qb starting his fourth game. 

Of course the rain and the non-existent run-game aren't allowed to be factors for the McC dissing crowd. If it comes out that they didnt prepare for the rain like they should have, since he didnt come out wearing a glove, then a lot of the blame that first half should be shifted to the coaching then, cause that would be a blunder on their part.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-13-2016, 05:49 PM)BigSeph Wrote: McCarron had no control over Bodine losing his grip on the snap and pinning it on the side of his leg.

How many rainstorms did Andy play in?

You haters are so irrational.

Are you blaming that fumble on Bodine? Really?

Also, what are the other reasons McCarron fumbled inside the 30? Because he did it two more times. And one was lost. Not the one where he fumbled the snap.

Dalton has played in rain storms. Remember the Patriots game in 2013 for instance?

McCarron fumbled 3 times and had an interception inside the Steelers 30. That's bad.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-13-2016, 11:11 AM)BengalChris Wrote: OMG are you guys still in a panic over McCarron? To bash him this much you must be worried he's going to unseat Dalton come spring.

Let me put this to rest for you: Dalton will be the starting QB next year, so you can stop nit-picking a guy who has only a few starts. Really, Dalton's job is safe.

Everyone knows Dalton's job is safe. He played amazingly.

I'm going off of how McCarron played overall. If Dalton had the same results, I'd be saying the same thing. Just like I have after his playoff games as well.

[BigSeph]

(01-14-2016, 01:59 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Are you blaming that fumble on Bodine? Really?

Also, what are the other reasons McCarron fumbled inside the 30? Because he did it two more times. And one was lost. Not the one where he fumbled the snap.

Dalton has played in rain storms. Remember the Patriots game in 2013 for instance?

McCarron fumbled 3 times and had an interception inside the Steelers 30. That's bad.

Here's what Phil Simms said during the game-

"You've got to stay under there in the rain, well he stayed under there, the football just a little off-center."  So yes I blame the fumble on the center when he snaps the ball onto the side of his leg instead of into the QB's hands.

Obviously the pouring rain would be a reason that someone might fumble anywhere on the field.  Or make a bad snap.

McCarron's interception "inside the Steelers 30" was thrown from the Bengals 40 yard line.

Get a life.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-14-2016, 02:26 AM)BigSeph Wrote: Here's what Phil Simms said during the game-

"You've got to stay under there in the rain, well he stayed under there, the football just a little off-center."  So yes I blame the fumble on the center when he snaps the ball onto the side of his leg instead of into the QB's hands.

Obviously the pouring rain would be a reason that someone might fumble anywhere on the field.  Or make a bad snap.

McCarron's interception "inside the Steelers 30" was thrown from the Bengals 40 yard line.

Get a life.

Phil Simms isn't the know it all he acts like as an analyst. Almost every NFL fan will agree with that.

He still had a hand on the ball. You're not always going to get perfect snaps.

How many fumbles did the Steelers have? 1? And it was because he let the ball hit the ground, right?

Still inside the Steelers 30 yard line, correct? And he missed Jones and underthrew the ball, right?

McCarron didn't play well. On the first TD drive, he completed zero passes. The offense was helped out by a DPI on an underthrown ball.

Outside of the final drive, McCarron did absolutely nothing well. He missed throws. Left the pocket early. Happy feet. And didn't read the defense well to see where open guys were.

McCarron did not play well. The defense did it's job. The offense did not.

[BigSeph]

(01-14-2016, 03:34 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Phil Simms isn't the know it all he acts like as an analyst. Almost every NFL fan will agree with that.

He still had a hand on the ball. You're not always going to get perfect snaps.

How many fumbles did the Steelers have? 1? And it was because he let the ball hit the ground, right?

Still inside the Steelers 30 yard line, correct? And he missed Jones and underthrew the ball, right?

McCarron didn't play well. On the first TD drive, he completed zero passes. The offense was helped out by a DPI on an underthrown ball.

Outside of the final drive, McCarron did absolutely nothing well. He missed throws. Left the pocket early. Happy feet. And didn't read the defense well to see where open guys were.

McCarron did not play well. The defense did it's job. The offense did not.

The defense allowed fewer yards in 3 of Andy Dalton's 4 playoff starts.

Phil Simms was an NFL QB who took snaps from center.  I was a center for 7 years of football.  If I snap the ball on the side of my leg (and it DID get more difficult in the rain/mud), the QB has no chance to catch it because his hands aren't there.  QBs are trained to keep one hand up and the other hand angled to cover more area when the ball is snapped, which is why the ball hit one of AJM's hands and the rest of it landed on Bodine's leg.

That fumble's not on AJM.

But you want to pin everything bad on him, so go ahead and pin it.

You are completely delusional and irrational, embarrassing yourself on the internet and making a fool of yourself with some of these statements for the past few days, but it's obvious you have some deep-seated resentment towards AJM.

I'm so glad we can all be treated to your psychological fixation issues here on the forum.

AJM didn't play great.  He played well enough to win.  He had a gutsy performance and put points on the board when it mattered most.  He gave the team a TD to take the lead at the end.

Expecting more from a QB making his 4th NFL start in a rainstorm is absurd.

Bashing the guy for everything he did wrong and giving him ZERO credit for the things he did right is proof that you have left objectivity and reason behind, and you are in the twilight zone of delusion and foolishness.

[Brownshoe]

(01-14-2016, 04:59 AM)BigSeph Wrote: The defense allowed fewer yards in 3 of Andy Dalton's 4 playoff starts.

Phil Simms was an NFL QB who took snaps from center.  I was a center for 7 years of football.  If I snap the ball on the side of my leg (and it DID get more difficult in the rain/mud), the QB has no chance to catch it because his hands aren't there.  QBs are trained to keep one hand up and the other hand angled to cover more area when the ball is snapped, which is why the ball hit one of AJM's hands and the rest of it landed on Bodine's leg.

That fumble's not on AJM.

But you want to pin everything bad on him, so go ahead and pin it.

You are completely delusional and irrational, embarrassing yourself on the internet and making a fool of yourself with some of these statements for the past few days, but it's obvious you have some deep-seated resentment towards AJM.

I'm so glad we can all be treated to your psychological fixation issues here on the forum.

AJM didn't play great.  He played well enough to win.  He had a gutsy performance and put points on the board when it mattered most.  He gave the team a TD to take the lead at the end.

Expecting more from a QB making his 4th NFL start in a rainstorm is absurd.

Bashing the guy for everything he did wrong and giving him ZERO credit for the things he did right is proof that you have left objectivity and reason behind, and you are in the twilight zone of delusion and foolishness.

Stop acting like the defense has ever played as good in a playoff game in the last 10 years as they did on Saturday. They only allowed them to get two 3rd down conversions the whole game, and they had forced as many turnovers as they had in the previous 4 combined. They also had as many sacks as the previous 4 combined. This is the best offense we have played in the last 4 years EASILY too. Just the total yardage doesn't mean anything.

McCarron isn't 100% at fault for the fumble, but stop acting like it was all on Bodine. The snap wasn't THAT bad, and if you watch the replay the ball still hit McCarron in the hand. Any NFL level QB shouldn't fumble there.

AJM didn't play well enough to win, because if he did we would be talking about how the Patriots game was going to go.

[jeremydc]

McCarron is an adequate back up. I'm not worried if Andy goes down next year.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-14-2016, 04:59 AM)BigSeph Wrote: The defense allowed fewer yards in 3 of Andy Dalton's 4 playoff starts.

Phil Simms was an NFL QB who took snaps from center.  I was a center for 7 years of football.  If I snap the ball on the side of my leg (and it DID get more difficult in the rain/mud), the QB has no chance to catch it because his hands aren't there.  QBs are trained to keep one hand up and the other hand angled to cover more area when the ball is snapped, which is why the ball hit one of AJM's hands and the rest of it landed on Bodine's leg.

That fumble's not on AJM.

But you want to pin everything bad on him, so go ahead and pin it.

You are completely delusional and irrational, embarrassing yourself on the internet and making a fool of yourself with some of these statements for the past few days, but it's obvious you have some deep-seated resentment towards AJM.

I'm so glad we can all be treated to your psychological fixation issues here on the forum.

AJM didn't play great.  He played well enough to win.  He had a gutsy performance and put points on the board when it mattered most.  He gave the team a TD to take the lead at the end.

Expecting more from a QB making his 4th NFL start in a rainstorm is absurd.

Bashing the guy for everything he did wrong and giving him ZERO credit for the things he did right is proof that you have left objectivity and reason behind, and you are in the twilight zone of delusion and foolishness.

The defense allowed 18 points this game. That's fewer than all the past 4 games.

Yards don't mean anything compared to points.

They're both at fault #1. #2 is I also played QB. You can adjust yourself once it hits your hand. Is it easy? No. But manageable. What's his excuse for the other 2 fumbles?

McCarron didn't play well outside of one series. That's just a fact. It's not a resentment towards him, it's a fact that he did not do well in the game overall. Just like Andy didn't do well against the Steelers in the first game.

What was gutsy from McCarron besides the final TD drive? He played sub-par and was one of the reasons we didn't score.

I expected more because it's the playoffs. I expected more because he already played this team before. I expected more because he wants to say "Brady was in the same position" and act confident, he has to be allowed to take scrutiny.

McCarron is 0-3 against teams that won more than 5 games this season. One game could have given us a BYE. The other game we would be going into the divisional round.

I don't care how many starts he's had. McCarron did not have a good game. 3 fumbles. An interception. Missed receivers. Underthrown balls.

That's just how it is. You don't get participation trophies in the post season.

[BigSeph]

(01-14-2016, 04:23 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: The defense allowed 18 points this game. That's fewer than all the past 4 games.

Yards don't mean anything compared to points.

They're both at fault #1. #2 is I also played QB. You can adjust yourself once it hits your hand. Is it easy? No. But manageable. What's his excuse for the other 2 fumbles?

McCarron didn't play well outside of one series. That's just a fact. It's not a resentment towards him, it's a fact that he did not do well in the game overall. Just like Andy didn't do well against the Steelers in the first game.

What was gutsy from McCarron besides the final TD drive? He played sub-par and was one of the reasons we didn't score.

I expected more because it's the playoffs. I expected more because he already played this team before. I expected more because he wants to say "Brady was in the same position" and act confident, he has to be allowed to take scrutiny.

McCarron is 0-3 against teams that won more than 5 games this season. One game could have given us a BYE. The other game we would be going into the divisional round.

I don't care how many starts he's had. McCarron did not have a good game. 3 fumbles. An interception. Missed receivers. Underthrown balls.

That's just how it is. You don't get participation trophies in the post season.

Yards mean something compared to points because if a defense only has to stop an offense from going 15 yards due to an offense's turnover, it's hard to blame them for all the points allowed.  

Bengals D did a great job of limiting points after the offense turned to ball over vs. Pittsburgh, no question about it.  But go look at what happened in previous playoff games.

You can't "adjust yourself" if the point of the ball smacks your bottom hand and the rest of the ball lands on the center's leg.  Nobody's completing that center/qb exchange.  The excuse for the other 2 fumbles might be

1.  Wet football
2.  Jarvis Jones meeting McCarron at the plant point 2 seconds after the ball was snapped.  

What QB is going to hold onto the ball when they go to throw it 2 seconds after the snap but a guy's arm clobbers your throwing arm?  The other fumble McCarron pulled the ball down with 2 hands against his chest (as QBs are instructed to do) and it just got knocked out.  You act like he was careless with the football and that's what caused the fumbles - that is not reality.  That is more of your delusional armchair quarterbacking.

McCarron was 5-6 for 50 yards to start the game.  He drove them from the Cincy 29 to the Pittsburgh 38 on the 2nd possession of the game, and most of that was passing yards.

You guys are suffering from a severe case of mental illness when it comes to your badmouthing of AJM's performance.  You don't even make realistic objections - it's like you have imagined some alternate football game that didn't take place, and you just hate AJM for it.  Delusional...........

How was he 0-3 against teams that won more than 5 games?  He only lost 2 games all year.  You see how ridiculous you are?  You are living in an alternate reality.

He lost in overtime @ Denver vs. the best defense in football.  He lost on a last minute drive vs. the Steelers in his first playoff game, which was a rainstorm.  Don't act like he got blown out or threw a bunch of picks and stunk it up.  He had the team in position to win in BOTH games, late.

He lost 1 fumble and threw 1 pick in a rain game and brought the team back to take the lead with less than 2 minutes to go.

Seek help.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-14-2016, 05:58 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Stop acting like the defense has ever played as good in a playoff game in the last 10 years as they did on Saturday. They only allowed them to get two 3rd down conversions the whole game, and they had forced as many turnovers as they had in the previous 4 combined. They also had as many sacks as the previous 4 combined. This is the best offense we have played in the last 4 years EASILY too. Just the total yardage doesn't mean anything.

McCarron isn't 100% at fault for the fumble, but stop acting like it was all on Bodine. The snap wasn't THAT bad, and if you watch the replay the ball still hit McCarron in the hand. Any NFL level QB shouldn't fumble there.

AJM didn't play well enough to win, because if he did we would be talking about how the Patriots game was going to go.

Brownshoe, take a deep breath, and then realize that you're arguing against a guy with a McCarron avatar, who is having to quote Phil F'ing Simms as gospel for his evidence.

That's right there with trying to explain to a Steelers fan that no, Munchak didn't "accidentally" get a whole fistful of Nelson's hair and yank on it because he was trying to "help" him. Lol

[BigSeph]

(01-14-2016, 06:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Brownshoe, take a deep breath, and then realize that you're arguing against a guy with a McCarron avatar, who is having to quote Phil F'ing Simms as gospel for his evidence.

That's right there with trying to explain to a Steelers fan that no, Munchak didn't "accidentally" get a whole fistful of Nelson's hair and yank on it because he was trying to "help" him. Lol

I apologize for quoting a former NFL QB on a specific point relating to center/QB exchanges in an NFL game.  

That's not quoting Phil Simms as "gospel," if any of you AJM-bashers go look at the video you will see where the ball was snapped.  But because some of you are arguing from ignorance, pretending a game happened which no one else saw, I am forced to attempt to offer you direct quotes from the video which I re-watched several times.

I thought that would be a short way of explaining what happened (using an external source besides my own personal opinion) but apparently none of you can be bothered to go look at the game when you decide to argue about it.

As far as my McCarron avatar, so what?  I'm not yammering about how wonderful AJM is and how he played the greatest game in NFL history.  I said he struggled early and battled through it to put points on the board when it mattered most and bring this team back at the end of the game.  That's a gutty performance.  That's all.  You could learn a thing or two about objectivity and dealing with what actually happened, rather than grinding your axe and bashing the guy 24/7.

I think it's more telling that a handful of posters can't give AJM an ounce of credit than what my avatar happens to be.