{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[Hammerthis]

(01-30-2016, 12:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: well since he did not play in the post season, i still would say he had a phenomenal year since you can't grade him lower because he got hurt and was unable to play (people doing that are just showing their bias against Dalton).. and i would also argue that having a rough 2014 season and  could he bounce back in 2015 and even lead us to the playoffs was on just as many minds.. 

Lets be honest when you are really rating a player and at what level they are performance wise.. to compare a playoff game to a 16 game season is very skewed thinking.  

That type of thinking is why Kenny Anderson to me is not in the Hall of Fame.. because he did not win a Super Bowl and why Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame because he did.  Look at both of their careers and you can;t tell me Anderson out performed Namath throughout their careers.  

Dalton is on pace to have a strong career over time  and if he continues at that level and fall short in the playoffs he still is going to go down as a good QB.. their are many good QBs that have had little success in playoffs ,  Here is a list of Qbs that never won a super bowl, with a few of them never making it even there.   The quality of their career of many of them outweigh lack of success in playoffs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/604599-top-10-quarterbacks-that-never-reached-a-super-bowl 

I'm sorry, but starting with Jim Hart, most on your list, by today's standards, would be considered nothing more than QB stat-whores. Their names would never be mentioned when comparing today's good QBs. 
Have you noticed how the good QBs today are being judged by doing more with less? We can't turn back the clock. It's obvious to see some QBs are nothing but stat whores because they never deliver when the lights shine brightest. 

[Hammerthis]

(01-30-2016, 12:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: That type of thinking is why Kenny Anderson to me is not in the Hall of Fame.. because he did not win a Super Bowl and why Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame because he did.  Look at both of their careers and you can;t tell me Anderson out performed Namath throughout their careers.  

Dalton is on pace to have a strong career over time  and if he continues at that level and fall short in the playoffs he still is going to go down as a good QB.. their are many good QBs that have had little success in playoffs ,  Here is a list of Qbs that never won a super bowl, with a few of them never making it even there.   The quality of their career of many of them outweigh lack of success in playoffs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/604599-top-10-quarterbacks-that-never-reached-a-super-bowl 

Ken Anderson was elite because he performed well in both the regular and post season. 
I'm sorry, but starting with Jim Hart, most on your list by today's standards would be considered nothing more than QB stat-whores. Their names would never be mentioned when comparing today's good QBs. 
Have you noticed how the good QBs today are being judged by doing more with less? We can't turn back the clock. It's obvious to see some QBs are nothing but stat whores because they never deliver when the lights shine brightest. 

[Essex Johnson]

Well he is the problem.. getting to the playoffs is very difficult.. again look at some of the very good QBs over time and they have not gotten there very much. If you compare Dalton's first five years to some of the very good QBs now and before he compares very favorable and if he had not delivered on a consistent basis the Bengals would not have been as successful as they have been.. If he has went 2-2 in the playoffs, we would be looking at him being with some of the elites in the game after 4 seasons.. but I do knock him down for lack of success in playoffs but to try to equally compare 5 years of service vs. 4 playoff games is just not very logical.

To me it would be like comparing equally a worker on 4 days of work at a high level of stress with 75 days of a consistent intense work...

[BengalChris]

(01-30-2016, 12:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: well since he did not play in the post season, i still would say he had a phenomenal year since you can't grade him lower because he got hurt and was unable to play (people doing that are just showing their bias against Dalton).. and i would also argue that having a rough 2014 season and  could he bounce back in 2015 and even lead us to the playoffs was on just as many minds.. 

Lets be honest when you are really rating a player and at what level they are performance wise.. to compare a playoff game to a 16 game season is very skewed thinking.  

That type of thinking is why Kenny Anderson to me is not in the Hall of Fame.. because he did not win a Super Bowl and why Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame because he did.  Look at both of their careers and you can;t tell me Anderson out performed Namath throughout their careers.  

Dalton is on pace to have a strong career over time  and if he continues at that level and fall short in the playoffs he still is going to go down as a good QB.. their are many good QBs that have had little success in playoffs ,  Here is a list of Qbs that never won a super bowl, with a few of them never making it even there.   The quality of their career of many of them outweigh lack of success in playoffs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/604599-top-10-quarterbacks-that-never-reached-a-super-bowl 

By today's standards, Ken Anderson would be a HOFer. League MVP, multiple passing titles, longevity and led the league a couple of years in QB rushing yards. The only thing he didn't get was a SB victory.

If Ken Anderson doesn't get elite status, then no Bengals QB since would rate that distinction either.

Before you can win in the SB you have to win multiple playoff games in a row.

Playoff wins mean more because those games are generally against better teams and if you can't beat the better teams, then you aren't one of them. Not laying those losses on Dalton, even though he hasn't played well in them, but it's more on the coaching and the whole team. The team came closest this year. Must closer than the previous 6 under Marvin Lewis.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-31-2016, 01:29 AM)BengalChris Wrote: By today's standards, Ken Anderson would be a HOFer. League MVP, multiple passing titles, longevity and led the league a couple of years in QB rushing yards. The only thing he didn't get was a SB victory.

If Ken Anderson doesn't get elite status, then no Bengals QB since would rate that distinction either.

Before you can win in the SB you have to win multiple playoff games in a row.

Playoff wins mean more because those games are generally against better teams and if you can't beat the better teams, then you aren't one of them. Not laying those losses on Dalton, even though he hasn't played well in them, but it's more on the coaching and the whole team. The team came closest this year. Must closer than the previous 6 under Marvin Lewis.

i agree playoff wins mean more but a QB resume is their complete resume.  You are going to play very good teams in the regular season also.  Look at the teams the Bengals have beaten in the regular season since Dalton became QB.. it is layered with playoff teams. He has no doubt established himself as a top 10 QB in the league with his 5 year performance.   As for HOF, sure playoffs come into play but you know their are many players in the HOF that lack much playoff success though QBs I agree are held to a higher standard.  I do think Dalton is going to need to have some success in playoffs to start to move up the power status of QBS.

As for Kenny Anderson.. it is beyond belief why he is not in the HOF.  Anderson and Riley both are more deserving than some others already in there.

[BengalChris]

(01-31-2016, 11:01 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i agree playoff wins mean more but a QB resume is their complete resume.  You are going to play very good teams in the regular season also.  Look at the teams the Bengals have beaten in the regular season since Dalton became QB.. it is layered with playoff teams. He has no doubt established himself as a top 10 QB in the league with his 5 year performance.   As for HOF, sure playoffs come into play but you know their are many players in the HOF that lack much playoff success though QBs I agree are held to a higher standard.  I do think Dalton is going to need to have some success in playoffs to start to move up the power status of QBS.

As for Kenny Anderson.. it is beyond belief why he is not in the HOF.  Anderson and Riley both are more deserving than some others already in there.

Dalton's 2015 play elevated him into the top 10. I don't think there's much doubt about that. To go higher though, he's going to have to play well in the playoffs and in big games. His time will come for him and hopefully there will be good talent around him when that time comes.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-31-2016, 12:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Dalton's 2015 play elevated him into the top 10. I don't think there's much doubt about that. To go higher though, he's going to have to play well in the playoffs and in big games. This time will come for him and hopefully there will be good talent around him when that time comes.

Agree. so tell me why do you think Anderson and Riley have not made it to the HOF?.. Anderson got a decent amount of support at one time.. Riley i don;t think did.. but i feel both are well deserving to be in HOF

[*rfaulk34*]

On the bright side...


Only one more entire year before we find out if Dalton can win a playoff game.

[BengalChris]

(01-31-2016, 04:19 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Agree. so tell me why do you think Anderson and Riley have not made it to the HOF?.. Anderson got a decent amount of support at one time.. Riley i don;t think did.. but i feel both are well deserving to be in HOF

I believe Anderson and Riley aren't the HoF because they played for the Bengals. They may both make it in eventually and I hope they do.

There are a number of lessor players than Anderson and Riley in the hall. If a current player was 5th all time in interceptions, he'd be considered a lock for first ballot HoF. If a QB leads the league in passing for several years, then he'd also be a lock.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-01-2016, 12:05 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I believe Anderson and Riley aren't the HoF because they played for the Bengals. They may both make it in eventually and I hope they do.

There are a number of lessor players than Anderson and Riley in the hall. If a current player was 5th all time in interceptions, he'd be considered a lock for first ballot HoF. If a QB leads the league in passing for several years, then he'd also be a lock.

yet they played for the bengals in the 70s when we actually we pretty darn good... and both were eligible before we got really bad... so does not add up for me.

I think Anderson will get in by veterans at some point.. not sure if Riley will.. very sad though for both

[GreenCornBengal]

(01-31-2016, 09:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: On the bright side...


Only one more entire year before we find out if Dalton can win a playoff game.

2014 - AJ and others hurt
2015 - Andy hurt
Maybe next year it will be Marvin Lewis who gets injured !

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-01-2016, 07:17 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: 2014 - AJ and others hurt
2015 - Andy hurt
Maybe next year it will be Marvin Lewis who gets injured !

I dunno man.....Piano Man is assistant HC.....

[jj22]

Dalton wasn't medically cleared to participate in the probowl. His injury probably was worse than they let on. Word had come out during wildcard weekend that he wouldn't have been ready for NE if they would have beat the Steelers. You have to wonder if he would have played at all this post season.

Of course with the probowl not a real game, maybe there just wasn't a hurry to clear him medically right now.

[GreenCornBengal]

(02-02-2016, 05:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton wasn't medically cleared to participate in the probowl. His injury probably was worse than they let on. Word had come out during wildcard weekend that he wouldn't have been ready for NE if they would have beat the Steelers. You have to wonder if he would have played at all this post season.

Of course with the probowl not a real game, maybe there just wasn't a hurry to clear him medically right now.

He seemed VERY ho-hum leading up to the playoff game. I didn't think he would be ready by the divisional round. It's a shame :/

Just wait for him to have an average year next year and people to jump back on the "Ginger guy sucks" bandwagon.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-02-2016, 05:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton wasn't medically cleared to participate in the probowl. His injury probably was worse than they let on. Word had come out during wildcard weekend that he wouldn't have been ready for NE if they would have beat the Steelers. You have to wonder if he would have played at all this post season.

Of course with the probowl not a real game, maybe there just wasn't a hurry to clear him medically right now.

We don't know if Dalton was cleared, actually. The medical staff doesn't have to release that to the public once the season ends. Which is why none of us know how serios Giovani Bernard's concussion is.

From what I saw, Dalton turned down the invitation due to fear of re-injuring his thumb.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-03-2016, 03:09 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: We don't know if Dalton was cleared, actually. The medical staff doesn't have to release that to the public once the season ends. Which is why none of us know how serios Giovani Bernard's concussion is.

From what I saw, Dalton turned down the invitation due to fear of re-injuring his thumb.

If I were Dalton, I would've turned it down saying I should've been in there from the start. There's no way that Ben Roethlisberger should've gotten the Pro Bowl nod over me.

Of course, I can say that because I don't have to worry about looking like a child or like I still have sour grapes.

[BengalChris]

(02-04-2016, 12:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If I were Dalton, I would've turned it down saying I should've been in there from the start. There's no way that Ben Roethlisberger should've gotten the Pro Bowl nod over me.

Of course, I can say that because I don't have to worry about looking like a child or like I still have sour grapes.

I think a number of people were disappointed in his 2014 pro-bowl appearance and performance.

The game, of course, has gotten ridiculous with Tyrod Taylor making it.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-04-2016, 12:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I think a number of people were disappointed in his 2014 pro-bowl appearance and performance.

If that were the case then why was Cam Newton voted in? Cam has had 2 different Pro Bowl performances that were as bad or worse.

In 2011, he went 9/27 (33.3%) with 3 INTs and a 43.7 rating.
In 2013, he went 8/17 (47.1%) with 1 INT and a 40.1 rating.
Dalton went 9/20 (45.0%) with 0 INT and a 54.0 rating.
In 2011, Dalton went 7/9 (77.8%) with 2 TDs, 0 INT and a 152 rating.

So Cam has been far worse than Dalton in the Pro Bowl.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-04-2016, 02:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If that were the case then why was Cam Newton voted in? Cam has had 2 different Pro Bowl performances that were as bad or worse.

In 2011, he went 9/27 (33.3%) with 3 INTs and a 43.7 rating.
In 2013, he went 8/17 (47.1%) with 1 INT and a 40.1 rating.
Dalton went 9/20 (45.0%) with 0 INT and a 54.0 rating.
In 2011, Dalton went 7/9 (77.8%) with 2 TDs, 0 INT and a 152 rating.

So Cam has been far worse than Dalton in the Pro Bowl.

[Hammerthis]

(02-04-2016, 12:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I think a number of people were disappointed in his 2014 pro-bowl appearance and performance.

The game, of course, has gotten ridiculous with Tyrod Taylor making it.

Tyrod is a hell of QB and I see nothing wrong with his selection to the PB. Imo his QB skills are a big reason the Bills are positioning themselves to be the heir apparent to the Patriots in the AFC East.