For all who wish we kept Brown over Nugent...

[fredtoast]

(08-19-2016, 03:47 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I do disagree.  Baring some sort of injury situation and a dire need for kickers, I think Nugent is riding out his last destination in the NFL.

Why would the teams that had kickers worse than Nugent not sign him?

That makes no sense.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-19-2016, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you disagree?

And if not then what is your point?

Nately makes a false statement and when I correct him you guys attack me.

You all need to grow up.  I stand proudly on the truth.

My point is you sit here talking about truths but wont admit Nugent is a average to low tier kicker who is replaceable, but unfortunately there is no one better to plug in as his replacement.

I get that this year there is no answer. Nugent will be here and he is the best option. However, that doesn't stop me from thinking ahead and thinking we need to make some calls/look in the draft for a guy to step in.

Still, the way you talk about Nugent makes it sound like you would be ok with him being a Bengal for another 5+ years.

The arguments arise from our shock that you can't even find it plausible that Nugent needs replacing.. like Marvin you are "not concerned".

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-19-2016, 03:47 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I do disagree.  Baring some sort of injury situation and a dire need for kickers, I think Nugent is riding out his last destination in the NFL.

You calling someone else out for being a jerk is kind of funny though

As much as I am a fan of Nuge', like I said in the other thread, I don't see him sticking around after this year (or when his contract is up).

[McC]

(08-19-2016, 12:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In a related story: I heard Nuge tried to kick his wife, but missed.

LMAO.  This might be the line of the year.

[fredtoast]

(08-19-2016, 03:57 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: My point is you sit here talking about truths but wont admit Nugent is a average to low tier kicker who is replaceable,

Still, the way you talk about Nugent makes it sound like you would be ok with him being a Bengal for another 5+ years.

The arguments arise from our shock that you can't even find it plausible that Nugent needs replacing.. like Marvin you are "not concerned".

Now you are just being a troll and trying to pick a fight instead of having an adult conversation.  You were heavily involved in this other thread.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Nugent-will-cost-us-at-least-1-game-this-year?page=4

where I made these comments.

Nuge is a middle of the road average kicker.   .  .



I'd like to get a consistent top 10 kicker.  .  .



I have no problem with the Bengals bringing in other kickers to compete for the job.  I would also like to have a top ten kicker.   .  .



This is what happens a lot around here. We have a player who is middle of the pack, but far from the worst in the league, and a certain group starts claiming that he has to be cut immediately. They claim that although the player is not close to the worst in the league he can easily be replaced. This is just not how the NFL works.



I am not saying that Nugent is great. I also wish we had a consistent top 10 kicker.  .  .  So I am not so much defending Nugent as I am pointing out that the extremist around here have no idea what they are talking about.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-19-2016, 04:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Now you are just being a troll and trying to pick a fight instead of having an adult conversation.  You were heavily involved in this other thread.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Nugent-will-cost-us-at-least-1-game-this-year?page=4

where I made these comments.

Nuge is a middle of the road average kicker.   .  .



I'd like to get a consistent top 10 kicker.  .  .



I have no problem with the Bengals bringing in other kickers to compete for the job.  I would also like to have a top ten kicker.   .  .



This is what happens a lot around here. We have a player who is middle of the pack, but far from the worst in the league, and a certain group starts claiming that he has to be cut immediately. They claim that although the player is not close to the worst in the league he can easily be replaced. This is just not how the NFL works.



I am not saying that Nugent is great. I also wish we had a consistent top 10 kicker.  .  .  So I am not so much defending Nugent as I am pointing out that the extremist around here have no idea what they are talking about.

Well I apologize, because for whatever reason I never read those specific posts. Maybe I need to brush up on my critical reading skills. IDK never saw them.

How can you decide who is a top 10 kicker in the NFL without letting them play? I would love to have a top 10 kicker too, but I don't think there is any way of knowing without throwing them into the fire... somewhat the nature of the position.  

If you perused that thread, you probably noticed where I posted this

"Nugent is here for the same reason that a lot of guys stick around here, he is familiar.


You know he will make most of them, and he is clutch most of the time. Sometimes he falters... but It's not like Andy Dalton AJ Green and J. Hill haven't faltered at some point either..



We know what we have with Nugent.



It's the Tate argument. He does his job well and there isn't a definite upgrade available. Also, the coaches are familiar with them and trust them in various fashions. Coach Simmons seems to be a "If it aint broke, don't fix it." kind of coach, and Nuge is still functional."

You will also notice that I bring up his playoff prowess often. Nugent hasn't faltered in the playoffs since 2011, something that can't be said about a lot of players around here.

So we are on the same side, I just think he is on the downside of his career and thank goodness its the preseason.

[*Nately120*]

(08-19-2016, 03:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You would be wrong.

Nugent has always been better than the kickers on several ofther NFL teams.  If we released him some other team would sign him.

That's possible, but the first kicker I looked up who came to mind was Garret Hartley (not sure why) and lo and behold he's a free agent, is 4 years younger than Nugent, and has a slightly higher FG% to boot.  I'm just saying that Nugent MIGHT be a FA by now if he didn't play for a team that used multiple franchise tags on him and seems pretty intent on keeping him around for continuity and competence.

I'm not saying we should dump Nugent, but I'm also not going to go out on a limb and just assume a 34 year old kicker would be a hot commodity outside of a team where he's put in 5 years.

[Beaker]

(08-19-2016, 12:07 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I want a young guy to come in and beast it up.

Your wife said the same thing.

[bengalsfan73]

Mike Nugent is only here because he is a product of Ohio State and a local kicker. He is without doubt one of the worst in the league. He has one of the weakest legs in the NFL and his accuracy is suspect. I honestly can say whenever it is time for him to come out to attempt a field goal from any distance and even an extra point it makes me nervous every time. He is definitely going to cost us a game or two this season with his inaccurate kicking but hopefully the games will not come down to Nugent attempting a field goal or extra point for that matter. I just wish Marvin would stop being so loyal to the older players on the team and bring in more competition. I wish they would bring in a younger kicker to give them a chance to beat out the much older Nugent. I would love to find a kicker with the potential such as Justin Tucker, a younger kicker with a cannon for a leg and better accuracy.

[Shake n Blake]

Nuge isn't "middle of the road" even. He's a bottom-tier kicker based on actual numbers.

He might boot around the league as a traveling injury replacement (ala Shayne), but no team is going to make him "the guy" as we have for 7 years. We could've always done better than Nuge. A kicker on the street (Brown) outplayed him for Pete's sake. Yet we won't even bring in legit competition for the guy.

It reeks of a Mike Brown decision. Loyalty to a subpar player. If Mikey actually has taken a liking for Nuge, it's going to take an utter catastrophe to get him gone. Hopefully it doesn't happen in the playoffs.

[*Nately120*]

(08-20-2016, 12:21 AM)bengalsfan73 Wrote: Mike Nugent is only here because he is a product of Ohio State and a local kicker. He is without doubt one of the worst in the league. He has one of the weakest legs in the NFL and his accuracy is suspect. I honestly can say whenever it is time for him to come out to attempt a field goal from any distance and even an extra point it makes me nervous every time. He is definitely going to cost us a game or two this season with his inaccurate kicking but hopefully the games will not come down to Nugent attempting a field goal or extra point for that matter. I just wish Marvin would stop being so loyal to the older players on the team and bring in more competition. I wish they would bring in a younger kicker to give them a chance to beat out the much older Nugent. I would love to find a kicker with the potential such as Justin Tucker, a younger kicker with a cannon for a leg and better accuracy.

I would say I agree, but I can only assume all 32 NFL teams want a kicker who is younger, has a cannon for a leg AND is more accurate.  Hell, you may as well toss "Plays for free and is also a genius GM for no additional charge" in there.  Hardy har!

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 01:05 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nuge isn't "middle of the road" even. He's a bottom-tier kicker based on actual numbers.

No he isn't.

Just depends on how you set up your tiers.

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 01:05 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  We could've always done better than Nuge.

This is where it gets silly.

Nuge has always been netter than kickers on other NFL teams.

So how is it that the bengals could have always done better" when all of these other teamsin the league could not.

This is exactly what I am talking about when i mention "extremeists" who don't know what they are talking about.  We have a guy who ha salways been better than several other kickers in the league yet they act like we could have just signed anyone and he would have been better than nugent.  That just is not true.

[*bfine32*]

(08-19-2016, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why would the teams that had kickers worse than Nugent not sign him?

That makes no sense.

This is just an assumption on your part. When Nuge got hurt with NYJ the Jets brought in a replacement. The replacement placed so well that the Jets decided they no longer needed him The Bucs picked him up and soon cut him. Nuge was on the streets for a few months until he was brought in when the Arizona kicker went down. Arizona cut him less than a month later.

Your assertion that someone would sign him is nothing but your opinion. Why has nobody signed Randy Bullock? He is every bit as accurate as Nuge (more so over the last 3 years), is 8 years younger, and has a much stronger leg. Does every other NFL team have a better kicker than him? I would suggest I know one team that very well may not.  

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 01:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  Why has nobody signed Randy Bullock? He is every bit as accurate as Nuge (more so over the last 3 years), is 8 years younger, and has a much stronger leg. Does every other NFL team have a better kicker than him? I would suggest I know one team that very well may not.  

Bullock missed 3 XPs last year in only 25 attempts.  His 88% XP% ranked 254th out of 257 kickers who have attempted at least 25 XPs in a season over the last 10 years.

Plus, his leg is not "much stronger" than Nugent.  Bullock has a career .455% on FGs over 50 yards while Nugent has hit 8 of 16 (.500) from 50+ for the Bengals.

[Derrick]

(08-19-2016, 03:57 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: My point is you sit here talking about truths but wont admit Nugent is a average to low tier kicker who is replaceable, but unfortunately there is no one better to plug in as his replacement.

I get that this year there is no answer. Nugent will be here and he is the best option. However, that doesn't stop me from thinking ahead and thinking we need to make some calls/look in the draft for a guy to step in.

Still, the way you talk about Nugent makes it sound like you would be ok with him being a Bengal for another 5+ years.

The arguments arise from our shock that you can't even find it plausible that Nugent needs replacing.. like Marvin you are "not concerned".

We better hope that the Bengals are way ahead near the end of their games, so a field goal isn't needed!!! After that &%*&@ kicking performance in Detroit, I am afraid that more than one game will be decided by a missed Nugent kick.

[*bfine32*]

(08-20-2016, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bullock missed 3 XPs last year in only 25 attempts.  His 88% XP% ranked 254th out of 257 kickers who have attempted at least 25 XPs in a season over the last 10 years.

Plus, his leg is not "much stronger" than Nugent.  Bullock has a career .455% on FGs over 50 yards while Nugent has hit 8 of 16 (.500) from 50+ for the Bengals.

Last year was the only year that Bullock missed an XP in his career, Nuge has missed an XP in 5 of his 11 season and of course Bullock's leg is stronger as 12% of his career attempts has come from 50+ compared to Nuge's 9% (aren't statistics fun).

However you want to slice it; their career numbers are very similar and Bullock is much younger. But somehow if we follow Fred logic: Bullock is a FA because he is worse than every other kicker in the NFL, while Nuge would get scooped up immediately if released even though he has missed 2 FGs and 1 XP so far this preseason.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-20-2016, 09:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No he isn't.

Just depends on how you set up your tiers.

This is an interesting angle you're taking in this thread. So Nugent isn't the absolute worst K in the league (which no one is even saying), so it's therefore understandable that the Bengals have retained his services for 7 years without so much as a hint of competition? Maybe I'm wrong, but is this your overall message?

And yes, I would consider an average ranking of 23rd in FG% to be closer to "bottom-tier" than "middle of the road". As would most people who aren't practicing their arguing skills and/or defending a poor decision by the team because no one else will.

(08-20-2016, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is where it gets silly.

Nuge has always been netter than kickers on other NFL teams.

So how is it that the bengals could have always done better" when all of these other teamsin the league could not.

This is exactly what I am talking about when i mention "extremeists" who don't know what they are talking about.  We have a guy who ha salways been better than several other kickers in the league yet they act like we could have just signed anyone and he would have been better than nugent.  That just is not true.

There has almost always been a kicker available - at some point of the year - via FA or the draft, that probably would've been an upgrade. Brown was better. Matt Prater would've been an upgrade a couple years ago. Kai Forbath or Garrett Hartley this year. Chris Boswell last year. I'm sure you'll probably try to single one of these guys out and nitpick some way that Nuge is better, but honestly there are kickers available - at some point - every single year that would (at least) arguably be an upgrade.

At some point, we should have tried to upgrade. The FO hasn't even made an effort. Nuge has had one of the safest jobs on the team, and he hasn't earned that security via performance. Can you admit that?

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 02:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is an interesting angle you're taking in this thread. So Nugent isn't the absolute worst K in the league (which no one is even saying), so it's therefore understandable that the Bengals have retained his services for 7 years without so much as a hint of competition? Maybe I'm wrong, but is this your overall message?

My overall message is that I wish we had a better kicker, but I am not going to call for him to be cut because any other kicker off the street would be better.

My criticism is aimed at the people who claim that Nugent is the only kicker in the league who misses enough FGs to make them feel "uncomfortable" every time he kicks when in fact there are very few kickers in the league who are a lot better than Nugent.  there were 157 missed FGs in the NFL last year and Nugent only had 5 of them.  So these people are going to feel uncomfortable no matter who we have kicking.  

Nuge missed 5 of 28 attempts last year.  The elite kickers who make 90% of their kicks are still going to miss 3.  So i don't see how 2 more made FGs over a 16 game schedule are really going to make all these nuge-haters feel that much more comfortable.

Plus there are guys out there like the Cards Chandler Catanzaro who hit over 90% of his FGs but missed 5 extra points, and the Seahawks Steven Hauschka who also hit over 90% of his FGs but missed 4 extra points.

The idea that there are a bunch of kickers out there who hit every FG and every XP is just ridiculous.  

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 02:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: There has almost always been a kicker available - at some point of the year -  Kai Forbath this year. 

WTF?  Kai Forbath only hit .667% of his FGs last year (10-15) and was cut by 2 teams.

(08-20-2016, 02:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  or Garrett Hartley

It has been 8 years since Hartley hit over 82 perecnt of his FGs and he did not even play lasy year.

Is this a joke post?

(08-20-2016, 02:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Chris Boswell last year.

The Steelers singing of Bosewell was just pure luck.  He had been cut by two other teams in '14 and '15 and was the Steelers FOURTH kicker in '15 when they signed him off the street in October.  There was no way any team would have thought there was any chance he could have made their roster,