The Bengals need to move on from Jeremy Hill

[3wt]

(09-22-2016, 03:53 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I really don't get how he looked good in the Jets game.  He had nine rushes for 31 yards, and about 12 of them came on one play.  He looked pretty good on the touchdown, but otherwise I thought he looked terrible.

Hill carried 9 times for 32 yards.  Here are his carries.

• 1
• 6
• 5
• 0
• 12
• 6
• 4
• -1
• -2
  

 
4 carries for under 1 yard
5 carries for 6, 5,12,6 and 4 yards respectively.
In the last possession he carried for 6 yards and 4 yards before being stuffed for behind the LOS twice in a row.   So it wasn’t just a single carry for a lot of yards and stuffed for the rest.  The fact that he was tackled behind the LOS 2 out of the 4 poor carries tells me that the problem was more the line than Hill.  When he had a hole he tended to get good yardage.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-22-2016, 09:24 PM)Derrick Wrote: This is scary. The OL looks like crap against NY and Pitt -- teams that may or may not make the playoffs. WTH is this line supposed to do against playoff/SB caliber teams? It is a serious problem that can't wait until the bye-week to get fixed. Meanwhile, run a heavy backfield with lead blockers until the OL can figure out how to block...The OC and Line coaches had better order pizza and figure out how to fix this cluster****.

NYJ have improved their offense with Matt Forte. They just barely missed the playoffs last year and have improved. They are a very good team.
Pittsburgh is the healthiest they have been in recent years. Unless they suffer a key injury like they have the past few years, they are a favorite to win the SB.

I would say right now, the top two teams in the AFC are the Pats and Steelers.
The Broncos should be in contention all year with that defense, DT, Sanders, and CJ Anderson.

So these first six weeks will be very telling of how the Bengals can or cannot handle playoff caliber teams.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think the O-Line misses Andre Smith more than they thought. Say what you will about Smith but he was good run blocker. To blame Hill is not warranted. Also, the OC has different plays for different personnel. Some of the plays favor Gio over Hill based upon running styles and quickness. The new RT rookie is part of the problem.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-23-2016, 12:17 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think the O-Line misses Andre Smith more than they thought.  Say what you will about Smith but he was good run blocker.  To blame Hill is not warranted. Also, the OC has different plays for different personnel.  Some of the plays favor Gio over Hill based upon running styles and quickness.  The new RT rookie is part of the problem.

2015 Hill did not look much like 2014 Hill either.  He has not had more than 100 yards in a game since the end of the 2014 season and his per carry average dropped by a full 1.5 yards last year.  The offensive line is not doing him any favors, but that does not explain 2014.

[ItsOdellThurman]

Andre Smith is a huge loss. NOT.

The Vikings run-blocking has been even worse than Cincinnati's this year, and that was with Peterson in the backfield for 2 games.

Andre Smith just sucks. They don't miss him at all.

[brian5562]

I see it more of the oline not sustaining their blocks, not letting Hill run behind Hewitt, and not a commitment to the run game. Hill should get 20 carries a game. Have to keep defenses honest and open up play action.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-23-2016, 12:33 PM)brian5562 Wrote: I see it more of the oline not sustaining their blocks, not letting Hill run behind Hewitt, and not a commitment to the run game. Hill should get 20 carries a game. Have to keep defenses honest and open up play action.

How do you justify giving a guy 20 carries when he is getting two yards a pop?

[ItsOdellThurman]

When you're getting 2.6 yards per carry and the team is about as vanilla as possible in their use of Jeremy Hill, it's had to justify just feeding him the rock constantly.

Teams know exactly how the Bengals want to and plan to use Hill and that's that.

Maybe if they actually got creative with him in 3 WR sets and in the passing game, he might have some space and some confidence.

[CKwi88]

I'm all for getting Gio more touches. But I'm fine with giving Hill more time before I hit the panic button. We played two of the top AFC teams that have solid defenses. I think the offense can turn this around.

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-23-2016, 12:31 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: 2015 Hill did not look much like 2014 Hill either.  He has not had more than 100 yards in a game since the end of the 2014 season and his per carry average dropped by a full 1.5 yards last year.  The offensive line is not doing him any favors, but that does not explain 2014.

I also, think Hill needs rhythm runner.  Maybe he needs more touches.  Keep in mind, Andy is throwing the ball well, and i think it's tempting to take the pass route rather then grinding a run game.  I would mind another bruising running back though.  

[3wt]

(09-23-2016, 12:33 PM)brian5562 Wrote: I see it more of the oline not sustaining their blocks, not letting Hill run behind Hewitt, and not a commitment to the run game. Hill should get 20 carries a game. Have to keep defenses honest and open up play action.

I agree with this and so does Lap.   Hill does better behind a lead blocker, our interior O line is blocking poorly and there is not a lot of continuity.  Hill will make a nice run and come right off the field.   I think they need to design more of the play calling with Hill and Hewitt on the field - with enough variation that the D can't just tee off,  they can stay on the field longer and go up tempo.   I think we'd see the development of a play action game and open the middle of the field more for our TEs and RBs to take advantage of.

You're always going to have some runs stuffed but things tend to open up. 

Last night Blount carried the ball 7 times in the first half for 11 yards,    1.6 yards per carry

In the second half he carried the ball 17 times for 94 yards - 3.8 yards a carry.  Eliminate the 41 yard touchdown run and he ran for 2.4 yards a carry.

Announcers raved about Blount and it was considered a very successful night for Blount and the Patriots.

He carried the ball a lot more in the 2nd half carrying it 7 times out of 11 in the first series of the 2nd half and 4 times out of 8 in the 2nd.  The first series resulted in a field goal.  The 2nd series (in which he averaged 2.5 yards a carry) ended in a touchdown.

What stuck in my mind was that they stuck with the run in the 2nd half and it bore fruit despite a less than exciting yards per carry total.  The other thing was that their guards played great and their receivers blocked great - including 5'10" 200lb. Edelman.  They really sustain their blocks.  They were also using a fullback on a lot of his carries.

I'm not saying that Hill doesn't need to improve some things.  I'm just saying the team needs to man up around him - including the coaches.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-22-2016, 08:46 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agree.....but he ain't goin ANYWHERE.  Marv was even saddled with him.

Sad but true. PA has been here since the Shula days hasn't he?

(09-23-2016, 12:43 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'm all for getting Gio more touches. But I'm fine with giving Hill more time before I hit the panic button. We played two of the top AFC teams that have solid defenses. I think the offense can turn this around.

True, but we'll be facing top defenses in the playoffs. You need to be able to muster better than 39 yards and 2 YPC to win playoff games.

[XenoMorph]

(09-23-2016, 12:37 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: How do you justify giving a guy 20 carries when he is getting two yards a pop?

Get a big lead early?

[ItsOdellThurman]

The Bengals aren't built to "get a big lead early." Any lead they get is going to be reliant on them being able to establish the run and hit plays in the passing game. This isn't last year where arguably the top 5 options offensively were in the passing game.

[Bengal Dude]

(09-23-2016, 03:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sad but true. PA has been here since the Shula days hasn't he?

He's been here since 1994. He was the TE coach for one season and then took over the OL.

[bengals67]

Hill getting stuffed is more of a function of having the worst center in the NFL.

Hard to understand the infatuation of Paul Alexander with below average centers.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-23-2016, 02:25 PM)3wt Wrote: I agree with this and so does Lap.   Hill does better behind a lead blocker, our interior O line is blocking poorly and there is not a lot of continuity.  Hill will make a nice run and come right off the field.   I think they need to design more of the play calling with Hill and Hewitt on the field - with enough variation that the D can't just tee off,  they can stay on the field longer and go up tempo.   I think we'd see the development of a play action game and open the middle of the field more for our TEs and RBs to take advantage of.

You're always going to have some runs stuffed but things tend to open up. 

Last night Blount carried the ball 7 times in the first half for 11 yards,    1.6 yards per carry

In the second half he carried the ball 17 times for 94 yards - 3.8 yards a carry.  Eliminate the 41 yard touchdown run and he ran for 2.4 yards a carry.

Announcers raved about Blount and it was considered a very successful night for Blount and the Patriots.

He carried the ball a lot more in the 2nd half carrying it 7 times out of 11 in the first series of the 2nd half and 4 times out of 8 in the 2nd.  The first series resulted in a field goal.  The 2nd series (in which he averaged 2.5 yards a carry) ended in a touchdown.

What stuck in my mind was that they stuck with the run in the 2nd half and it bore fruit despite a less than exciting yards per carry total.  The other thing was that their guards played great and their receivers blocked great - including 5'10" 200lb. Edelman.  They really sustain their blocks.  They were also using a fullback on a lot of his carries.

I'm not saying that Hill doesn't need to improve some things.  I'm just saying the team needs to man up around him - including the coaches.

Obvious difference being the Patriots had a third string rookie quarterback playing.  No how, no way did they want to put the game in his hands.  That would probably have been very different with Brady playing.

[BengalChris]

(09-23-2016, 02:25 PM)3wt Wrote: I agree with this and so does Lap.   Hill does better behind a lead blocker, our interior O line is blocking poorly and there is not a lot of continuity.  Hill will make a nice run and come right off the field.   I think they need to design more of the play calling with Hill and Hewitt on the field - with enough variation that the D can't just tee off,  they can stay on the field longer and go up tempo.   I think we'd see the development of a play action game and open the middle of the field more for our TEs and RBs to take advantage of.

You're always going to have some runs stuffed but things tend to open up. 

Last night Blount carried the ball 7 times in the first half for 11 yards,    1.6 yards per carry

In the second half he carried the ball 17 times for 94 yards - 3.8 yards a carry.  Eliminate the 41 yard touchdown run and he ran for 2.4 yards a carry.

Announcers raved about Blount and it was considered a very successful night for Blount and the Patriots.

He carried the ball a lot more in the 2nd half carrying it 7 times out of 11 in the first series of the 2nd half and 4 times out of 8 in the 2nd.  The first series resulted in a field goal.  The 2nd series (in which he averaged 2.5 yards a carry) ended in a touchdown.

What stuck in my mind was that they stuck with the run in the 2nd half and it bore fruit despite a less than exciting yards per carry total.  The other thing was that their guards played great and their receivers blocked great - including 5'10" 200lb. Edelman.  They really sustain their blocks.  They were also using a fullback on a lot of his carries.

I'm not saying that Hill doesn't need to improve some things.  I'm just saying the team needs to man up around him - including the coaches.

The Bengals would have given up on the run after that first half rather than sending the offense back out there and telling them to go get it right. I'm sure Belichick had something to say about it at half time. And they got a 41 yard TD by persisting.

[BengalChris]

(09-23-2016, 05:19 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Hill getting stuffed is more of a function of having the worst center in the NFL.

Hard to understand the infatuation of Paul Alexander with below average centers.

Just call it a love affair and all makes sense.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-23-2016, 06:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The Bengals would have given up on the run after that first half rather than sending the offense back out there and telling them to go get it right. I'm sure Belichick had something to say about it at half time. And they got a 41 yard TD by persisting.

If the Bengals had a lead, were shutting out the other team, and Jeff Driskel was at QB, then yes, I am sure they'd have stuck with the run, too.