157 Yards

[bengalsfansince93]

(12-19-2016, 05:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Dalton's "drummer boys" are probably where OP was for the last 2 weeks (and most of the season outside of maybe 3 games).

Seriously though, my stance hasn't changed. Dalton is having a fine season...especially considering the circumstances. The RZ passing has been my biggest gripe with him this season, but I think that's more of a problem with the offense itself. Dalton threw 60 TDs in 12-13, and he threw 25 in 12 games last year. So Dalton has already proven he can get the ball in the EZ in the past.

People blaming Dalton right now are no better than Detroit fans who wanted to trade Stafford last year. The Lions shit-canned their OC, brought in Jim Bob Cooter, and voila! Stafford's been dominating ever since. Look...We've all seen what Dalton is capable of. If he's not producing at or near that level, that's a coaching (and blocking issue). Same as with Stafford last year, who was getting beat to death and playing in a dysfunctional offense.

As for this particular game, we had no AJ, the Steelers schemed away Eifert and Boyd. Hill had like 20 carries for 40 yards. What was Dalton supposed to do? He scored 20 points, which is more than what the "hero" did in January.






I feel like your backed in a corner but you will never admit it!  You have supported Andy with every excuse in the book. No matter how bad he plays your going to look somewhere else. This goes for many Bengals fans.   Its fine if you like the guy.  I think Andy is a great person but his play stinks.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-19-2016, 11:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why dance around the question? How many QBs do you think could've led this team to a winning record? List them.

We are averaging 20.6 points a game. We are allowing 20.9 points a game. Our QB has (had) the 25th worst QB rating in the 4th quarter. Just a smidge of improvement in the redzone and 4th quarter and those L's start turning in to W's. 

Brady for sure
Rottenturd for sure
Flachoe for sure
Mariota for sure (Titans are 8-6)
Luck for sure
Carr for sure
Rivers one of the worst teams in the league, they have equaled our current win total 
Dak more than likely
Eli more than likely, total chicken shit under pressure, but Marshall Newhouse is a starter on their OL
Cousins for sure
Stafford usually a loser, has Detroit heading towards the playoffs
Rodgers for sure
Ryan more than likely, playing out of his mind this year
Winston for sure (Bucs are 8-6)
Brees for sure
Newton for sure
Wilson for sure
Tannehill? Dolphins are worse than us but have a better record.
Tyrod? He beat us, our team is better. 

Wait. Since we are time traveling can I cut Nugent too before he costs us a make believe W?

[Utts]

Eli? It's posts like this, that kept me away all season. No doubt my absence was a boon for this kind of crazy talk.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-19-2016, 11:51 PM)Utts Wrote: Eli? It's posts like this, that kept me away all season. No doubt my absence was a boon for this kind of crazy talk.

With two Super Bowl rings, shitty little Eli and the 10-4 Giants get preferential treatment. 

[Atomic Orange]

(12-19-2016, 11:24 PM)Utts Wrote: Take away MLJ and Mo Sanu. Take away Hugh. Give him a crap line. What do you get? Exactly.

2015:
Jones - 65/816/4
Sanu - 33/334/0

2016:
Lafell - 51/665/5
Boyd - 50/539/1

Agree with "crap line".

[Shake n Blake]

(12-19-2016, 11:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Besides the obvious suspects: Brady, Rogers, Brees, Ben. I'd say a few of the more mobile QBs would have done well for us. Wilson, Newton, Marriota, and Luck. i actually think Taylor and Tannehill would have done better for us, but that's reaching.

I left out the young guys like Carr, Winston, and Prescott. Conversely some of the better QBs in the league may not have gotten us to 5: Rivers, Palmer, Ryan

Of the 8 you're actually choosing, I like most of them but not many have won under similar circumstances. Say 20th or worse in rushing and YPC, bottom 3 in sacks allowed and injuries to their top 2 receivers. Not to mention a kicker that cost us 2 wins. 

Maybe some added mobility would help, maybe not. Depends on the QB. Vick was the most mobile QB ever but took a ton of sacks. Dalton isn't a slouch in the mobility category and typically dishes the ball quickly. It hasn't helped him this year.

Overall, my point is just that there aren't many QBs that win regardless of what's around them. Maybe the top 4 elite guys can, but I'd argue that even they need talent around them to win consistently and contend for titles. So I don't view the fact that Dalton needs a decent team around him as some big indictment. That pretty much goes for anybody. 

If the offense (blocking, run game particularly) were even "average" this year, I have little doubt that we'd be winning with Dalton and his passer rating would be around 100+ rather than 91.9.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-19-2016, 10:56 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: AAron Rodgers easily.  He has crap at three RB position wr are banged up but there he is carrying a Packers team to the playoffs again.  That guy is clutch 

Awesome. Let's go get him then. I'd love to have him.

(12-19-2016, 11:47 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We are averaging 20.6 points a game. We are allowing 20.9 points a game. Our QB has (had) the 25th worst QB rating in the 4th quarter. Just a smidge of improvement in the redzone and 4th quarter and those L's start turning in to W's. 

Brady for sure
Rottenturd for sure
Flachoe for sure
Mariota for sure (Titans are 8-6)
Luck for sure
Carr for sure
Rivers one of the worst teams in the league, they have equaled our current win total 
Dak more than likely
Eli more than likely, total chicken shit under pressure, but Marshall Newhouse is a starter on their OL
Cousins for sure
Stafford usually a loser, has Detroit heading towards the playoffs
Rodgers for sure
Ryan more than likely, playing out of his mind this year
Winston for sure (Bucs are 8-6)
Brees for sure
Newton for sure
Wilson for sure
Tannehill? Dolphins are worse than us but have a better record.
Tyrod? He beat us, our team is better. 

Wait. Since we are time traveling can I cut Nugent too before he costs us a make believe W?

How many of that list have the following?

- a run game that ranks 21st or worse in YPC
- bottom 3 in sacks allowed
- missing at least 12 games of their top 2 receivers

Hell, some on that list have a losing record this year. Why do you think that is? 

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-20-2016, 12:29 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Awesome. Let's go get him then. I'd love to have him.


How many of that list have the following?

- a run game that ranks 21st or worse in YPC
- bottom 3 in sacks allowed
- missing at least 12 games of their top 2 receivers

Hell, some on that list have a losing record this year. Why do you think that is? 

IDK plenty of excuses could be made.
9 of the 11 teams with a YPC equal to or worse than ours have a better record than us. 
We are not the only ones who have injuries. 
Have any of the sacks been Dalton's fault?

Super Bowl hangover is real. Saints suck and Chargers suck. Panthers saints and chargers are all in the top 5 of most points allowed. 

[Shake n Blake]

(12-20-2016, 01:05 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Super Bowl hangover is real. Saints suck and Chargers suck. Panthers saints and chargers are all in the top 5 of most points allowed. 

You're right. Plenty of excuses can be made. And many of them are valid. Not only for Dalton, but also the QBs you mention. All good QBs in bad situations.

[BengalChris]

(12-19-2016, 03:47 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Just wondering where the Andy Dalton little drummer boys are? Do we put any of yesterdays loss on our QB? Or do we have some excuses?

Andy is an above average QB most of the time. But his performances in big games leave a lot to be desired. And I am not sold he can get us over the hump.

Little tidbit from the Bengals homepage. Dalton was 25th in the league in 4th quarter passer rating going into the Steelers game. And put up a 47.9 yesterday.

Unless he has a couple more 157 yard games he should break the 4,000 yard mark this year. For only the 2nd time in his career. And he will be lucky to get 20 passing TDs.

It is not impossible to improve on Dalton like some around here seem to think. Absolutely things could be worse at QB. But we could also do better.

51.4
44.7
67.0
63.4
What are those? Dalton's QB rating in his playoff games.

Give a lot of QBs one of the best WRs in the game and one of the best TEs in the game and one of the best defenses. And they too will win games.

Dalton is solid and has a favorable contract. But what if he isn't the answer? AJ McCarron won the games he was supposed to win last year. And almost beat the eventual Super Bowl champs at their house and barely lost a playoff game that we should have won. We have a good team. A top QB would dominate with this team around him (and a non-shitbag head coach).

After the 2014 season I was very willing for the team to explore an upgrade at QB if things didn't turn around with Dalton. But they did in 2015.

Yesterday's game reminded me of the game against Denver last year where McCarron lead the team to a nice first half lead only for the offense to shut down in the second half and we eventually lost in overtime.

Good, well prepared coaches know how to adjust during a game. Our coaches have a long history of weak second halfs against good opponents and we keep asking, "where are the adjustments?"

As for Dalton's play this year, if you factor in the horrid OL play for the first 10 or 11 games I'm surprised Dalton's numbers are as good as they are.

We still can't run block with any consistency and it doesn't matter who is at RB. Bernard, Hill or Burkhead. Yes Burkhead did ok yesterday, but if the past is any measure that won't last as teams will figure out what the Bengals are doing when Burkhead is in there and they'll counter it and that will be that. Remember that Bernard was having his worst year as a pro before he was injured, so can't really say Hill is the weak spot there. We passed on Bell and Lacy and took Bernard instead 4 years ago and that's what we did.

We've got plenty holes and even if Dalton isn't a top 5 QB, QB is one of our better manned positions on team. So I don't see any reason for us to move on from Dalton. Spending a high pick on a QB would prevent us from spending one on a much weaker position. We need OL help in the middle and at LT (Whit is going to have to hang it up at some point and Og has only shown he can't do it). We need a pass rusher and a LB or two and maybe a Center. I'm not convinced Bodine won't start off next year in a slump and take 11 games again to learn his job all over again in 2017.

Not making any excuses for anyone. There are changes needed and not just with the players. I really do believe that Dalton and Hill and Bernard would have great years with the right HC and I also think we can win in the playoffs with these guys. Burfict and Adam Jones would also benefit from a HC who just doesn't put up with the on the field crap.

[The Caped Crusader]

Phenomenal. Another one of these threads with guys passing around passer ratings, low yardage and blaming all the issues on the QB. Sheesh, does this get tiring pointing out the numerous flaws in this logic.

Half these receivers commentators can't even say their name right because nobody has no idea who they are. The best receiver we have had the last few games? The New England Patriots didn't even want him. Let that stand there for a moment.

I'm tired of everyone blaming Dalton.

[bengalsturntup926]

Now i think the coaching needs changed first. But i think some drastic change needs to be made somewhere. New coaching or better QB play. One or the other.

I have explained this time and time again. Dalton doesnt really have the skills to be a pocket passer!! Why i like mccaron better is he does have the proper mechanics. Dalton needs pre determined plays. Did you notice alot of that in hues system? Lots of screens, seem routes, slants, flankers. He didnt have to drop back and scan the field. Use his feet to manuver, sidestep pressure.go through all his reads. Dalton will never be that!! When any type of pressure comes, dalton quits looking downfield,he tucks the ball. A pocket passer is still trying to make a passing play. Dalton does not, he usually scrambles around, either to a sack or goes to his right and finds someone on the right or throws out of bounds. Also Dalton is eratic in accuracy. Overrall hes not very accurate which bugs me.

On the other hand mccaron is more accurate. Just go to mccaron sports science on youtube, you will see hes 80% for 20 yard passes. Now leader i also think mccaron is more of that also. Dalton is too nice, dalton would never get mad at his team, or show you hes going to make sure we will make a play and demand it. And prove it. Mccaron yelled at his center in a championship game. Dalton would just look at the OC. Mccaron is used to a program you better win or else. Under the lights, in a big conference, dalton came from a tcu christian school. Great guy, but too nice. Ive seen nice peyton manning get mad at his team on youtube on sound efx.

Maybe we need new coaching, another hue to work with dalton. Maybe we need a QB whisperer coach who actually talks to dalton. Marvin never does ,he probably dont know shit compared to jon gruden on offense. Ive seen more then enough of dalton crumbling under pressure like the ginger bread man. Fumbles, ints, batted down balls, sacks.you name it. SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE or we will continue to watch this same story believe me.

[wolfkaosaun]

In Dalton's last 28 games, he has a QB rating of less than 80 in 7 games.

However, he has a QB rating of 90 or better in 18 of those games.
A QB rating of 100 or better in 15 of those games.

In Tom Brady's last 28 games, he has a QB rating of less than 80 in 6 games. Granted, one game he only threw 16 passes. But nonetheless.

He has a QB rating of 90 or better in 20 of those games.
A QB rating of 100 or better in 14 of those games.

In Big Ben's last 28 games, he has a QB rating of less than 80 in 8 games.

He has a QB rating of 90 or better in 17 of those games.
A QB rating of 100 or better in 11 of those games.

Dalton has played well this year, especially with what he's been given. We have a poor coaching staff that teams have stated KNEW what our offense was going to do.
We have a coordinator that couldn't adjust to a team playing zone coverage (Paul Dehner talked to Zampese about it after the Dallas game).
We had the worst RT in the league and a below average center.
We have an OC that decided to mainly keep Eifert in as a blocker more than a receiver. Look at last game and even when we did that hail mary against the Bills.
We had a kicker miss numerous kicks.
We have a defense that can't get to the QB.
We have a team that isn't clutch.
We have a predictable offense. Rewatch this last game and count how many times we motion a WR and then go into a run play. Go ahead and count. It'll blow your mind. You knew what was coming.

Has Dalton had bad games and bad throws? Absolutely. But everything that was mentioned above has been a continuing problem all year.

Is Dalton the best QB in the league? God no. But he is a franchise QB. He can win us games, he has won us games.

[bengalsturntup926]

(12-20-2016, 03:27 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Phenomenal. Another one of these threads with guys passing around passer ratings, low yardage and blaming all the issues on the QB. Sheesh, does this get tiring pointing out the numerous flaws in this logic.

Half these receivers commentators can't even say their name right because nobody has no idea who they are. The best receiver we have had the last few games? The New England Patriots didn't even want him. Let that stand there for a moment.

I'm tired of everyone blaming Dalton.

Boyd is the real deal, core is pretty decent, i see now i didnt like the lafell pickup i complained about him last week, everyone said no hes good keep him around. He just doesn't get seperation for a #2 .he did do good the first half.but also the steelers have a bad secondary,they hardly get sacks. We should of been able to move the ball in the 2nd half. 

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-20-2016, 04:07 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Now i think the coaching needs changed first. But i think some drastic change needs to be made somewhere. New coaching or better QB play. One or the other.

I have explained this time and time again.  Dalton doesnt really have the skills to be a pocket passer!!  Why i like mccaron better is he does have the proper mechanics.  Dalton needs pre determined plays. Did you notice alot of that in hues system?  Lots of screens, seem routes, slants, flankers. He didnt have to drop back and scan the field. Use his feet to manuver, sidestep pressure.go through all his reads. Dalton will never be that!!  When any type of pressure comes, dalton quits looking downfield,he tucks the ball. A pocket passer is still trying to make a passing play. Dalton does not, he usually scrambles around, either to a sack or goes to his right and finds someone on the right or throws out of bounds. Also Dalton is eratic in accuracy. Overrall hes not very accurate which bugs me.

On the other hand mccaron is more accurate. Just go to mccaron sports science on youtube, you will see hes 80% for 20 yard passes.  Now leader i also think mccaron is more of that also.  Dalton is too nice, dalton would never get mad at his ream, or show you hes going to make sure we will make a play and demand it. And prove it. Mccaron yelled at his center in a championship game. Dalton would just look at the OC. Mccqron is used to a program you better win or else. Under the lights, in a big conference, dalton came from a tcu christian school. Great guy, but too nice.  Ive seen nice peyton manning get mad at his team on youtube on sound efx.

Maybe we need new coaching, another hue to work with dalton. Maybe we need a QB whisperer coach who actually talks to dalton. Marvin never does ,he probably dont know shit compared to jon gruden on offense. Ive seen more then enough of dalton crumbling under pressure like the ginger bread man. Fumbles, ints, batted down balls, sacks.you name it.  SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE or we will continue to watch this same story believe me.

Actually, Dalton struggles more in predetermined plays. We've seen it before. Those types of routes don't mean they're "predetermined". Predetermined throws and reading the defense presnap are very different. And numerous analysts have stated that Dalton is one of the best in the league at that. Also, hard to sidestep pressure when it's up the middle and you have a below average center and the worst starting RT in the league.

When Dalton scrambles this year, it's either been a throw away or a pass. Also, lots of QBs do those types of throws when they leave the pocket like that.

McCarron came from Alabama. You could name NFL players on that roster. Outside of Dalton, can you name one other TCU player that went into the NFL? He led the TCU Bullfrogs to an undefeated season his senior year and won the Rose Bowl. He only lost 3 games in his sophmore, junior, and senior year. Won 3 bowl games out of 4.

McCarron really isn't that good. I'm not going to watch a YouTube video when you can watch how he is in the NFL. He struggled a lot with accuracy and also had "predetermined" throws, as you like to call it. McCarron also had poor pocket awareness as he took 15 sacks in 5 games compared to Dalton's 20 sacks in 13 games. McCarron also struggles to read defenses that aren't man coverage. He struggled a lot against the Steelers and Broncos when they both did it. He works well in man coverage defenses.

And you're sitting here saying "I've seen Manning get mad on YouTube", and it sounds like that's where you're getting your info. YouTube and just what you read.
Meanwhile, if you would watch games, you would see numerous times where Dalton would yell at lineman or officials or even receivers. You would have seen him fired up. I mean, did you watch the first Steelers game? Have you watched him chew out the center after a bad snap?

McCarron isn't going to start here and will be the next Brock Osweiler/Matt Flynn if he becomes a starter. He's a game manager that needs a good team around him for him to actually win. He beat a Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Mallet led team. That's it.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Matt Ryan losses The top WR in the game last 2 games n the team still puts up huge 40 point games. No excuses there's. Just wins n points. Look at Tom Brady he has bunch of nobody's n still puts up numbers. Game after game. Year after year. Enough with the excuses. Put up or shut up

[bengalsturntup926]

(12-20-2016, 04:24 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Actually, Dalton struggles more in predetermined plays. We've seen it before. Those types of routes don't mean they're "predetermined". Predetermined throws and reading the defense presnap are very different. And numerous analysts have stated that Dalton is one of the best in the league at that. Also, hard to sidestep pressure when it's up the middle and you have a below average center and the worst starting RT in the league.

When Dalton scrambles this year, it's either been a throw away or a pass. Also, lots of QBs do those types of throws when they leave the pocket like that.

McCarron came from Alabama. You could name NFL players on that roster. Outside of Dalton, can you name one other TCU player that went into the NFL? He led the TCU Bullfrogs to an undefeated season his senior year and won the Rose Bowl. He only lost 3 games in his sophmore, junior, and senior year. Won 3 bowl games out of 4.

McCarron really isn't that good. I'm not going to watch a YouTube video when you can watch how he is in the NFL. He struggled a lot with accuracy and also had "predetermined" throws, as you like to call it. McCarron also had poor pocket awareness as he took 15 sacks in 5 games compared to Dalton's 20 sacks in 13 games. McCarron also struggles to read defenses that aren't man coverage. He struggled a lot against the Steelers and Broncos when they both did it. He works well in man coverage defenses.

And you're sitting here saying "I've seen Manning get mad on YouTube", and it sounds like that's where you're getting your info. YouTube and just what you read.
Meanwhile, if you would watch games, you would see numerous times where Dalton would yell at lineman or officials or even receivers. You would have seen him fired up. I mean, did you watch the first Steelers game? Have you watched him chew out the center after a bad snap?

McCarron isn't going to start here and will be the next Brock Osweiler/Matt Flynn if he becomes a starter. He's a game manager that needs a good team around him for him to actually win. He beat a Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Mallet led team. That's it.

I watch the games,ive watched every game since ive been a fan almost in 2001.The bengals and football has been my hobby for years.  And you are lying he never got on his teammates in a game or any inside scoop stuff in the nfl you can see, ive never seen it.  And mccaron does have better pocket awareness, and simply just better mechanics. He got thrown in the game vs pitt, took the loss . Beat two teams he sshould of beaten.  Took the superbowl champs to OT in primetime!! And it took a missed fg kick to get to OT Where the center snapped it before mccaron was ready. And in a playoff game in the rain came back in a pressure ssituation. SSomething dadalton has never done. College resume, mccarons numbers are up there with brady, rodgers, manning

[bengalsturntup926]

(12-20-2016, 04:24 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Actually, Dalton struggles more in predetermined plays. We've seen it before. Those types of routes don't mean they're "predetermined". Predetermined throws and reading the defense presnap are very different. And numerous analysts have stated that Dalton is one of the best in the league at that. Also, hard to sidestep pressure when it's up the middle and you have a below average center and the worst starting RT in the league.

When Dalton scrambles this year, it's either been a throw away or a pass. Also, lots of QBs do those types of throws when they leave the pocket like that.

McCarron came from Alabama. You could name NFL players on that roster. Outside of Dalton, can you name one other TCU player that went into the NFL? He led the TCU Bullfrogs to an undefeated season his senior year and won the Rose Bowl. He only lost 3 games in his sophmore, junior, and senior year. Won 3 bowl games out of 4.

McCarron really isn't that good. I'm not going to watch a YouTube video when you can watch how he is in the NFL. He struggled a lot with accuracy and also had "predetermined" throws, as you like to call it. McCarron also had poor pocket awareness as he took 15 sacks in 5 games compared to Dalton's 20 sacks in 13 games. McCarron also struggles to read defenses that aren't man coverage. He struggled a lot against the Steelers and Broncos when they both did it. He works well in man coverage defenses.

And you're sitting here saying "I've seen Manning get mad on YouTube", and it sounds like that's where you're getting your info. YouTube and just what you read.
Meanwhile, if you would watch games, you would see numerous times where Dalton would yell at lineman or officials or even receivers. You would have seen him fired up. I mean, did you watch the first Steelers game? Have you watched him chew out the center after a bad snap?

McCarron isn't going to start here and will be the next Brock Osweiler/Matt Flynn if he becomes a starter. He's a game manager that needs a good team around him for him to actually win. He beat a Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Mallet led team. That's it.

Daltons way of leading, is like leading a pee wee team.  Im driving this bus whos comig with me!!  Come on guys lets do this!!  High five!!  Yeah i really see a leader

[Atomic Orange]

[Atomic Orange]