A thought about Ogbuehi

[*pally*]

He was drafted to be a left tackle. Missed all of last year and due to other injuries missed most of this year's training camp. Then we move him to the right side. I'm willing to give him a chance at his natural position....IF AND ONLY IF we have a viable back up plan.

[motoarch]

(12-30-2016, 08:30 PM)AussieBengal Wrote: I agree 100%, Ogbuehi should have been benched, but he could still improve.

I certainly hope so.

[TheUberHuber]

Haha, he can't be any worse so what the hell lol

[CKwi88]

Not looking good, but I'll give him a full healthy offseason program before labeling him as bust.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Ogbuehi is now out with a partially torn rotator cuff.

Recovering from shoulder surgery should be EXACTLY what was needed to make him not get his ass kicked by bull rushes anymore.....

[*wildcats forever*]

(12-30-2016, 05:12 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Agreed. If Ced stays at tackle, I think the best we can get from him would be a similar role to what Eric Winson does for us right now.


I'd like us to look somewhere else for a tackle, but I wouldn't fully give up on Ced. I'm hopeful this team will take Willie Anderson up on his offer to help Ced, but if they don't, I'd like them to see if he can play guard. He did a good job at A&M when they had Matthews and Joeckle playing tackle.

Winston's main contribution was experience/savvy/technique imho. None of which Ogbuehi possesses at this point. 

As for Ogbuehi at guard, I defer to what Whit said about the physical requirements for that position after he played it last week - “Guard is a whole other world,” Whitworth said. “It’s physical, banged up, a lot guys are bruised and battered. It’s a different style of football in there. It’s why you see a lot of guards who are big and heavy. Rhinoceros-built guys. That’s why you don’t see a lot of tall, rangy 6-7 guys in there.”


I'm thinking IF Ogbuehi makes it at all, it will be at LT. But it will take another year or two, backing up someone like Whit plus getting coached up like never before.  WTS, maybe he can build his body into the type Whit described, and succeed from there. Lapham does speak highly of him , from an athletically-gifted perspective. I'd have a better feeling about this IF we had staff to bring him along.

[CINwillWIN]

I don't think it is good to have any kind of surgery, but hey...

So, he's a rookie who got put on his ass by some of the best if not the elite in the league, and that kind of experience will be what he needs to most. Andre Smith looked like hot garbage all the way up until his last two seasons here... and that isn't saying much since it took him quite a few seasons to actually play all 16 games in one season.

(fact)-- we needed an upgrade, may not got what was advertised, but I'm not giving up on him yet, Andre got 3 seasons under him before his 4th season starting all 16 games...

[BengalChris]

(12-30-2016, 10:10 AM)Ravage Wrote: So, I understand this year has been frustrating with Ogbuehi's play but there's one thing I think we should all take into account, the bowl game injury he had. The guy blew out his knee, missed most of his rookie year recovering, and this season is the first real year after the injury.

Do any of you remember what Geno was like the first season back from the ACL injury? Our own Defensive Coordinator said "He was just another guy out there", explosiveness and power were just gone. Cut to the following season, with more recuperation under his belt (and confidence in his knee), and Geno was back to being Geno. Was he "healthy" that first year back? Yes, he was. But he wasn't back to being the same yet. My point? OL and DL have similar body sizes, stresses, etc. on their bodies. If an All-Pro DT looks just meh a year after surgery, why do we expect a 2nd year OT to be perfectly fine?

Offensive and Defensive linemen have to put extreme stress on their knees on every single snap. Their knees are anchoring 300+ lbs human beings, being violently pushed or pulled by other 300+ lbs human beings, often with other overgrown men either intentionally diving at their knees (penalty or not), or falling and rolling up on their knees. The psychological concerns for these men coming off a knee injury are astronomical, I'd argue more so than for skill position players.

Now don't get me wrong, his ineffective play shouldn't have been repeatedly trotted out there for all of us to see (and AD to fear). However, assuming at this early stage that Ogbuehi is a bust, or won't be a solid OT is a bit pre-mature.

(12-30-2016, 10:33 AM)AussieBengal Wrote: This to me is a very valid point, I watch a lot of other contact sports and have seen other athletes struggle for 12 months after an ACL injury has allowed them to return to the field. I've even seen the best players in a couple of sports have very average seasons following these injuries and they comment that it takes them 6-12 months to regain the confidence in that knee to allow them to compete at the level they are know for.

Maybe Ogbuehi will improve with more confidence in his knee, that being said I still do not think that will make enough difference to make him an NFL quality offensive lineman

Boys, that injury was TWO years ago. This is his second year in the NFL.

[McC]

(12-30-2016, 11:35 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: I don't think it is good to have any kind of surgery, but hey...

So, he's a rookie who got put on his ass by some of the best if not the elite in the league, and that kind of experience will be what he needs to most. Andre Smith looked like hot garbage all the way up until his last two seasons here... and that isn't saying much since it took him quite a few seasons to actually play all 16 games in one season.

(fact)-- we needed an upgrade, may not got what was advertised, but I'm not giving up on him yet, Andre got 3 seasons under him before his 4th season starting all 16 games...

The taking three or four years to produce is just such a familiar narrative for too many Bengal first rounders.  It's become  a broken record.

And how often does a guy go from totally lost and mismatched to productive?  Not saying it's impossible but man, what a long way he has to go.

[AussieBengal]

(12-31-2016, 03:21 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Boys, that injury was TWO years ago. This is his second year in the NFL.

Yes, exactly what I am saying, it is not uncommon for players to have a poor 12 months after returning from a ACL reconstruction. Ogbuehi returned on the 6th of December last year.

Do I think he should have played so many games this year? no.

Do I think he is going to make it in the NFL? no.

Do I believe there are mitigating circumstance to his performance this season? yes.

[Derrick]

(12-30-2016, 08:31 PM)pally Wrote: He was drafted to be a left tackle.  Missed all of last year and due to other injuries missed most of this year's training camp. [And is now on IR] Then we move him to the right side.  I'm willing to give him a chance at his natural position....IF AND ONLY IF we have a viable back up plan.

Apparently he is also made of glass. E.g. Eifert.

[samhain]

(12-30-2016, 08:31 PM)pally Wrote: He was drafted to be a left tackle.  Missed all of last year and due to other injuries missed most of this year's training camp. Then we move him to the right side.  I'm willing to give him a chance at his natural position....IF AND ONLY IF we have a viable back up plan.

Back up plan is the operative term here.  They can't give him more than half a season to judge whether or not he's gotten better. If he looks like he did this year for even a quarter, he needs to sit down and disappear. They need a legit backup to keep him from blowing up the line like he did this year.

[BengalChris]

(12-30-2016, 08:31 PM)pally Wrote: He was drafted to be a left tackle.  Missed all of last year and due to other injuries missed most of this year's training camp. Then we move him to the right side.  I'm willing to give him a chance at his natural position....IF AND ONLY IF we have a viable back up plan.

He didn't miss all of last year. He started the year on the PuP list and was activated when he came off that list. Also, he had more time in college at RT. The "his natural position" is just a bunch of hog wash.

None of this is an excuse for being horrible. No excuse for the coaches to run him out there start after start.

[*bengalfan74*]

Ogbuehi has HUGE BUST written all over him ! And it's not because of any of the excuses given. It's because his heart isn't in the game. Like others have said even Lapaham called him out on this. He flat out quits trying like 1 second into plays. And it's not just a taking a play off thing, he does it 3/4's of the time.

The chances that's going to change next season are very, very, slim.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(12-31-2016, 09:44 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Ogbuehi has HUGE BUST written all over him ! And it's not because of any of the excuses given. It's because his heart isn't in the game. Like others have said even Lapaham called him out on this. He flat out quits trying like 1 second into plays. And it's not just a taking a play off thing, he does it 3/4's of the time.

The chances that's going to change next season are very, very, slim.

This 

[AussieBengal]

(12-31-2016, 09:44 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Ogbuehi has HUGE BUST written all over him ! And it's not because of any of the excuses given. It's because his heart isn't in the game. Like others have said even Lapaham called him out on this. He flat out quits trying like 1 second into plays. And it's not just a taking a play off thing, he does it 3/4's of the time.

The chances that's going to change next season are very, very, slim.

I actually agree with this, but I do believe that a lot of the problems Ogbuehi is facing are psychological and relate back to his ACL injury. The giving up on plays could most definitely be because he is scared of reinjuring his knee or he is not comfortable in its stability. These are issues that can linger 12 months post return to the field, some people don't overcome them ever overcome them, but a lot of sports people return to pre injury levels 12 months after return. The Bengals drafted him knowing he had an ACL injury, I say get him to see a sports psychologist and reassess where he is at after the preseason. A backup plan is definitely needed though as I think there is a huge chance he doesn't overcome this.

For those interested here is an article about the recent study on the psychological effect of an ACL injury, I believe this is one of the hardest injuries in sport to overcome.
http://sirc.ca/blog/often-overlooked-psychological-impact-acl-injury

Often overlooked – The psychological impact of an ACL injury

Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 09:00

An anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury is one of the most common and yet one of the most devastating injuries an athlete can sustain. There is plenty of research on ACL injuries and the methods for treatment are well documented; usually when an athlete sustains this type of injury, their physical recovery is addressed well and thoroughly, and many recover enough to return to their sport. While they may be physically able to play, the psychological and emotional impacts of an ACL injury are often overlooked and can have a detrimental effect on an athlete’s performance.
An anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury is usually caused by a sudden twisting motion in the knee when an athlete lands or steps. - NIH MedlinePlus
Common psychological factors that contribute to an athlete’s reluctance to return to sport:

• A fear of re-injury or further injury
• Decreased confidence that negatively affects performance
• Stress and anxiety regarding their physical condition
• Feelings of depression