State of the Bengals: Running Back

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-04-2017, 07:38 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I love Barkley dude is legit. U see him in the Usc game?!  My problem is he always seems to have to bounce it outside though. Ur forgetting a legit DE in Damarcus Walker I prefer him to any DE in this draft. He is legit he doesn't have the number but if u look at his numbers his first 2 years to his last 2 years it's like 2 different players. And as far as lb goes we definitely need upgrade if we go Williams in first (hopefully) would love McMillan in round 2 . Admitting osu bias. Or elflien center. Would never draft fournette due to ankle issues in college. Hoping we go Walker in 2 though

Yes....Walker is a good player too.  He had a very nice bowl game to boot.

[BengalChris]

We have plenty of RBs who can do the job. Fixing the OL is more important and we can let the RB situation sort itself out in training camp.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-02-2017, 09:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You think the coaches should change their offense to fit one player?  The Patriots use two and three TE formations all day long...when was the last time you saw the Bengals do this?  

Hill requires a huge hole and a fullback lead to get 5 yards?  Great, there are lots of people that could do that, but it limits your play action and makes you predictable in those formations.  Hill just doesn't fit.  Get a RB like Gio and Rex and go with the three in a rotation.  Defenses won't know if they will be in for a pass or a rush...too damn predictable with Hill.

And it also isn't the coaches fault that Hill is poor in blitz pick up and isn't a polished route runner.  How do you not see it?  It worked for Rex with NO AJ AND NO EIFERT!!!

Hard to use 2/3 TE sets when your top 1-2 TEs are constantly hurt.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-04-2017, 12:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: Amen on that last sentence Bro.  We do need another pass rusher for sure.  I am biased on all things FSU....admittedly....but this kid is something special....as you noted.  I'd sure like to have him.  I wasn't sold on Dugans or Wilson....but I felt Warrick would make us a good wideout.  Of course...we had no one to get him the ball at the time....then injuries...so kinda hard to evaluate his time here.

If we get Cook, I do believe he would add a whole new dimension. However, where does that put Gio and Hill? I believe Gio has earned more reps than he gets, and Hill has had 2 down years.
We all have our bias opinions on players. So I understand haha.

(01-04-2017, 07:38 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I love Barkley dude is legit. U see him in the Usc game?!  My problem is he always seems to have to bounce it outside though. Ur forgetting a legit DE in Damarcus Walker I prefer him to any DE in this draft. He is legit he doesn't have the number but if u look at his numbers his first 2 years to his last 2 years it's like 2 different players. And as far as lb goes we definitely need upgrade if we go Williams in first (hopefully) would love McMillan in round 2 . Admitting osu bias. Or elflien center. Would never draft fournette due to ankle issues in college. Hoping we go Walker in 2 though

Barkley has some of the best vision and patience I've seen in awhile. Yeah, he tries to bounce plays out quite a bit, but he also creates plays and makes people miss. He's not flawless, but he's one of the best RB prospects in quite awhile.

Also, Barkley registered a 4.38 40 time at Penn State and squated 495 lbs seven times. I honestly think Barkley is going to be something special.

I've actually been watching a ton of Williams because of you. Won't even lie, I was going to put off watching more of him.

McMillian is someone I REALLY like. I'm not an OSU fan at all, so I'm probably harsher on their players than most Bengals fans. But McMillian is a very good talent. Also a fan of Elfien.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-04-2017, 06:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: If we get Cook, I do believe he would add a whole new dimension. However, where does that put Gio and Hill? I believe Gio has earned more reps than he gets, and Hill has had 2 down years.
We all have our bias opinions on players. So I understand haha.


Barkley has some of the best vision and patience I've seen in awhile. Yeah, he tries to bounce plays out quite a bit, but he also creates plays and makes people miss. He's not flawless, but he's one of the best RB prospects in quite awhile.

Also, Barkley registered a 4.38 40 time at Penn State and squated 495 lbs seven times. I honestly think Barkley is going to be something special.

I've actually been watching a ton of Williams because of you. Won't even lie, I was going to put off watching more of him.

McMillian is someone I REALLY like. I'm not an OSU fan at all, so I'm probably harsher on their players than most Bengals fans. But McMillian is a very good talent. Also a fan of Elfien.

Honestly.....I think I'd just cut bait on Hill.  His cap hit is next to nil.....and we can probably get the same production out of a three headed attack of Rex...Gio....and some back to be named later.  Preferably Cook.....lol.  All kidding aside....he has succeeded in a committee before as well.

[Jpoore]

(01-04-2017, 06:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Barkley has some of the best vision and patience I've seen in awhile. Yeah, he tries to bounce plays out quite a bit, but he also creates plays and makes people miss. He's not flawless, but he's one of the best RB prospects in quite awhile. loop

Also, Barkley registered a 4.38 40 time at Penn State and squated 495 lbs seven times. I honestly think Barkley is going to be something special.

I've actually been watching a ton of Williams because of you. Won't even lie, I was going to put off watching more of him.

McMillian is someone I REALLY like. I'm not an OSU fan at all, so I'm probably harsher on their players than most Bengals fans. But McMillian is a very good talent. Also a fan of Elfien.

what do u think about Williams? And yeah I would love either McMillan or elflien in second. If we go elflien in second then next year grab Barkley along with z and boling in the middle we got a very nice team. They say his weakness is in coverage but I've gone back and he never really gets the ball thrown to who he's covering so apparently he's good in coverage(mcmillan that is) and man can he stop the run. Yeah I think Barkley will be great for years I think if him as the agility of leshaun McCoy but the strength of blount.  He's like leshaun McCoy 2.0 just look into future for a second we draft Williams elflien and Jake but first 3 round then draft Barkley following year. Ur talking about an offense with Mike Williams and aj green Jake butt and Tyler eifert Tyler Boyd saquan Barkley and gio. Man that would be nice. But back on topic. The big question is if we go with Williams in first? Do we go with a  lb like McMillan in second or a center like elflien in second? Or if we go lb in first do we go receiver like Corey Davis in second or center like elflien in second? Ah the possibilities.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-04-2017, 02:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hard to use 2/3 TE sets when your top 1-2 TEs are constantly hurt.

A part of being a coach is being prepared for injuries.  So, what happened when Kroft, Uzomah, and Hewitt were healthy early in the season and they had all offseason to know they would not have Eifert?

And when Eifert returned?  No Uzomah, but Kroft and Hewitt?  Kroft and Hewitt may not be Eifert but they catch the ball every time it is thrown to them.  It is as though they only want plays to the TE if it is going to be a 20 yard gain or more.  Just move the damn chains!  And remember the early season red zone woes?  Where were the TEs then?  Only time I remember one being targeted was Uzomah's TD that wasn't against the steelers....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-02-2017, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I thought this might be a fun way to address off-season needs and the draft by analyzing the position groups one-by-one.  I don't want to do one every day, so I will give a few days for this subject (RB) and once it appears to be a dead thread I will start a new position group.

Here goes the first one:  I choose RB because it should be fresh in everyone's mind what we just saw out of Rex.  

I look at the Bengals current stock of running backs (Hill, Gio, Rex, Peerman...Tra Carson, last game PS acquistion) and I immediately question why in the hell the Bengals running game is so poor.  Before everyone begins shouting obscenities at Ogbuehi and Bodine, I think it is much more than just that.  

Sure, the lack of good blocking on the offensive line was a contributing factor, but it is only a piece of the puzzle.  I look at the RBs and I see two players with a similar skill set, a special teamer, and Hill.  Hill stands out because he is a "bigger back" and should be able to hit the hold hard and get the tough yards on third and two, but he simply isn't that player.  He has seemingly lost his burst and before anyone quotes the YPC for Hill and Gio being similar, if you take away the performances against Cleveland where I think any of the RBs could have had a field day, Hill likely averaged under 3 YPC.  That is just awful.

Hill is also not a very good route runner, unlike Gio and Rex.  Hill also struggles in picking up the blitz.

This isn't meant to be a 'Hill-bashing" post, but here is what I am trying to illustrate and here is my solution:  When Hill is on the field, it is usually going to be as a rushing threat.  Much more than as a receiver.  The defense knows that.  With Gio and Rex, they can be either a rush threat or a significant downfield receiving threat.  That predictability can be solved by replacing Hill with another back similar to Gio and Rex.  Rotate all three of them to keep them fresh, and the playbook should not be limited when those three would be in the game.  Peerman is obviously just special teams (and a damn good one at that) but he doesn't enter game plan discussions as a RB.  One other way to help with the offensive line issues with players already on the roster is more utilization of two TE sets, where one TE can stay in to help block, but must be accounted for as a potential receiving target.  A healthy Uzomah, Croft, and Eifert could all be very effective used in this role.  

If the big 3 of DEs are gone by selection #9.  Should the Bengals draft Delvin Cook?  

Remember, the running game is probably the Bengals single greatest weakness.  This would solve it essentially overnight.  

Furthermore, I like the idea of getting Rex and even Gio some snaps at WR when Cook would be on the field.  It just creates more mismatches against LBs.  

Thoughts?

Well, great post and thread.

I agree with your thoughts here. Hill just doesn't run physical and he is not the pass catcher out of the backfield
that i thought he would be. This makes us predictable and we have enough of that with Zamp calling plays.

Rex and Gio need to stay. What is Hill's contract right now? Is he here for another year or two? Can we trade the
guy and get an extra pick? This would be ideal, atleast better than cutting him. I think he might get some traction
in the trade department with his TD's.

All for drafting Dalvin Cook in the first if the elite pass rushers are gone. He is my favorite RB in this draft and he
ran behind a bad O-line at Florida State. He can run and catch with the best of them and has great vision and burst.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, great post and thread.

I agree with your thoughts here. Hill just doesn't run physical and he is not the pass catcher out of the backfield
that i thought he would be. This makes us predictable and we have enough of that with Zamp calling plays.

Rex and Gio need to stay. What is Hill's contract right now? Is he here for another year or two? Can we trade the
guy and get an extra pick? This would be ideal, atleast better than cutting him. I think he might get some traction
in the trade department with his TD's.

All for drafting Dalvin Cook in the first if the elite pass rushers are gone. He is my favorite RB in this draft and he
ran behind a bad O-line at Florida State. He can run and catch with the best of them and has great vision and burst.

Last I saw....Hill's cap hit is well under a mil even if we just cut him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2017, 02:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: Last I saw....Hill's cap hit is well under a mil even if we just cut him.

That isn't too bad. I would like a trade more though.

Package McCarron and Hill. Might get a couple mid round picks out of them. Yah never know.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 02:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That isn't too bad. I would like a trade more though.

Package McCarron and Hill. Might get a couple mid round picks out of them. Yah never know.

Oh yeah, for sure.

[Lawless_1]

I don't see Rex being a legit starter....... and I have been a big Rex fan since drafting him. if we want a replacement for Hill I'd throw that money at Murray from Oakland.

[reuben.ahmed]

I did a long analysis of this earlier. Hill is 32nd in the league in YPC. Rex is 11th in the league (but he doesn't have the necessary 100 carries).

[Joelist]

To me the last thing we need to be doing is wasting picks and such on RBs. Just resign Burkhead and then concentrate on fixing both the OL and the DL. You win games starting on the lines not the skill positions.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-09-2017, 02:51 AM)Joelist Wrote: To me the last thing we need to be doing is wasting picks and such on RBs. Just resign Burkhead and then concentrate on fixing both the OL and the DL. You win games starting on the lines not the skill positions.

I understand the basic premise you are trying to support, and I agree with it...to an extent.

The Bengals rushing offense looked awful this year, but when Rex got his chance it looked pretty solid.  How much of it was the RB and how much of it was the line?  Clearly, a combination of the two, but a running back like Dalvin Cook is a transcendent talent.  He fits our scheme perfectly.  

If the top 3 DEs are gone, and the Bengals slide to something like 15 or 16 and Cook is still there, he has to be given strong consideration.  Would I take him over a top 5 overall talent OT if he was still there?  No, but there will be scenarios where the Bengals should take Cook over reaching for a LB.

[Jpoore]

(01-09-2017, 06:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I understand the basic premise you are trying to support, and I agree with it...to an extent.

The Bengals rushing offense looked awful this year, but when Rex got his chance it looked pretty solid.  How much of it was the RB and how much of it was the line?  Clearly, a combination of the two, but a running back like Dalvin Cook is a transcendent talent.  He fits our scheme perfectly.  

If the top 3 DEs are gone, and the Bengals slide to something like 15 or 16 and Cook is still there, he has to be given strong consideration.  Would I take him over a top 5 overall talent OT if he was still there?  No, but there will be scenarios where the Bengals should take Cook over reaching for a LB.

I don't think there is one in this draft (top 5 overall OT). Last year was the year of the tackles. And not to bring up a certain Oklahoma rb but I will bc we can get him late instead of getting him in top 20 which is where he would be drafted if not for incident. I hope we do trade down to 15-16 get a second rounder as well and get a player like Walker/davis/mcmillan/ elflien/etc. That said if they believe mixon's issues are still there I think cook should be considered along with Davis very strongly.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-09-2017, 06:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I understand the basic premise you are trying to support, and I agree with it...to an extent.

The Bengals rushing offense looked awful this year, but when Rex got his chance it looked pretty solid.  How much of it was the RB and how much of it was the line?  Clearly, a combination of the two, but a running back like Dalvin Cook is a transcendent talent.  He fits our scheme perfectly.  

If the top 3 DEs are gone, and the Bengals slide to something like 15 or 16 and Cook is still there, he has to be given strong consideration.  Would I take him over a top 5 overall talent OT if he was still there?  No, but there will be scenarios where the Bengals should take Cook over reaching for a LB.

Definately would not be against trading back if the top 3 DE's are gone at 9.

You have to give Cook a strong consideration, the dude will be very special in the NFL and did his damage in
college behind a poor O-line. I completely understand Joelist's point about the trenches cause that is where it
starts but Cook is a BPA type that you have to consider if the elite pass rushers that fit our team are gone.

(01-09-2017, 06:35 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I don't think there is one in this draft (top 5 overall OT). Last year was the year of the tackles. And not to bring up a certain Oklahoma rb but I will bc we can get him late instead of getting him in top 20 which is where he would be drafted if not for incident. I hope we do trade down to 15-16 get a second rounder as well and get a player like Walker/davis/mcmillan/ elflien/etc. That said if they believe mixon's issues are still there I think cook should be considered along with Davis very strongly.

Hey, if get Cam Robinson in the 1st, Walker/McMillion/Elfein/Toth in the 2nd and Joe Mixon late i would be happy.