Lap's training camp report

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-29-2017, 01:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is just not true. In 3 years Jeremy Hill has averaged 1075 yards from scrimmage per year. He has carried at over 4 YPC and averaged 10 TDs per year. He was vilified for the fumble in the '15 playoff game (fighting for yards), so what does he do? He practices carrying a 3lb ball so the gameball will feel "like an egg". The result: 241 touches in 2016 and not once did he put the ball on the ground.

Folks need to stop questioning Hill just because they like Mixon. Mixon has proved absolutely nothing in the NFL, while Hill has proven to be a productive rusher with a nose for the endzone.

And the last two years Jeremy Hill has averaged 814 rushing yards at 3.7 YPC.

One really good year three years ago doesn't make up for the last two years being complete shit at anything other than a goal-line back.

Hill's Rankings by YPC (min 160 carries):

2016- 20th of 25
2015- 26th of 27

[Sled21]

(07-29-2017, 11:31 AM)jeremydc Wrote: Hill isn't going anywhere .

I never said he was. I'm not one who think he will be cut. He might be traded, but I expect he will ride out the remaining year of his contract on the sideline watching Mixon and Bernard. I do not expect him to be resigned.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-29-2017, 04:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And the last two years Jeremy Hill has averaged 814 rushing yards at 3.7 YPC.

One really good year three years ago doesn't make up for the last two years being complete shit at anything other than a goal-line back.

Hill's Rankings by YPC (min 160 carries):

2016- 20th of 25
2015- 26th of 27

The truth.

[JumboTron]

In the NFL the future is now. Especially at RB, and especially at RB for the Bengals.

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2017, 04:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And the last two years Jeremy Hill has averaged 814 rushing yards at 3.7 YPC.

One really good year three years ago doesn't make up for the last two years being complete shit at anything other than a goal-line back.

Hill's Rankings by YPC (min 160 carries):

2016- 20th of 25
2015- 26th of 27

Of course 1 good year matters. It shows you have the ability to perform. 

YPC takes a hit when it is stopped by the endzone 19 times in the last 2 years. 

I get folks like Mixon, but Hill is one of the better backs in the NFL. What team would not want a 230ish lb RB that has 19 TDS s in the last 2 years? Every offensive player on the Cincinnati Bengals took a hit last year.

To say what does he do besides score TDs seems kinda silly IMO

[BFritz21]

(07-29-2017, 12:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Exactly, call him 0 yard Hill from now on...

He always seems to be running upHill now, instead of the downHill style in his first two years before the playoff fumble.

I think he's in an upHill battle to even make the team.

(07-29-2017, 12:48 PM)jeremydc Wrote: He'll have the most Tds by rbs this year . I expect a bounce back .

If he does, it will be because he gets a bunch of TDs from inside the 5, but I'm hoping that we don't do that because who's to say that Mixon won't be good from inside the 5?  I feel like Marvin would just give it to Hill because that's what he's comfortable with and we know that he doesn't like to change things up.  I agree that you don't go with what works, but I think Mixon could be just as good from that distance, if not better because he can lower his pads and pound the ball, but he also offers more as a receiving option near the goal line (and everywhere else).  When teams load the box near the endzone, it's difficult to find backers capable of stopping a back from catching a swing pass in space and running it in or guarding said back in a route off a play action or a normal designed pass because the defense is scrambling to get to their spots and look for receivers in the endzone.

I also think that it would damage team moral and momentum to have Mixon or Gio be in on the plays that get you down there and then have Hill come in, score, and then dance like he just ran through the 85 Bears' D for a 90-yard drive.  Group celebrations aren't allowed, but even seeing Mixon in the huddle before the play would fire the linemen up and then celebrating on the sidelines would be big because it's like they were complementing each other for the entire drive.

I don't like it.  

(07-29-2017, 01:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is just not true. In 3 years Jeremy Hill has averaged 1075 yards from scrimmage per year. He has carried at over 4 YPC and averaged 10 TDs per year. He was vilified for the fumble in the '15 playoff game (fighting for yards), so what does he do? He practices carrying a 3lb ball so the gameball will feel "like an egg". The result: 241 touches in 2016 and not once did he put the ball on the ground.

Folks need to stop questioning Hill just because they like Mixon. Mixon has proved absolutely nothing in the NFL, while Hill has proven to be a productive rusher with a nose for the endzone.

I didn't think he started the 3 lb weight until this offseason?  I think that carrying the 3 lb ball would actually be harmful to him because he wouldn't be carrying the football the same way and it would be unfamiliar, and then bad things happen.

You mention the over 4 YPC, but last season, when you're praising him for not fumbling, he only averaged 3.8, and he looked timid and didn't hit the holes hard every carry.

I'm questioning Hill because it looks like the fumble killed his confidence, and not to mention he seems like he alienates his teammates when he comes in and scores from a yard out and dances like he did it the entire drive by himself, as I mentioned above.

I love Mixon because he's more complete, was the best back in this draft, and looks like he could be a great pro.

We have AJ, who always causes defenses to give him extra attention, but then we also have the speedy Ross, and not to mention other receivers, so I don't think that defenses can stop what Mixon can do and still guard all of our other weapons.

(07-29-2017, 06:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course 1 good year matters. It shows you have the ability to perform. 

YPC takes a hit when it is stopped by the endzone 19 times in the last 2 years. 

I get folks like Mixon, but Hill is one of the better backs in the NFL. What team would not want a 230ish lb RB that has 19 TDS s in the last 2 years? Every offensive player on the Cincinnati Bengals took a hit last year.

To say what does he do besides score TDs seems kinda silly IMO

Go back and watch the game films and see that Hill ran scared, as opposed to his first two years in the league where he'd run like a freight truck and just speed through defenses and plow anyone in the way.

And, to answer your question, I can think of pretty many NFL teams that don't want a back that fumbles in the biggest moment of his life and then can't run hard because he's worrying too much about fumbling.

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2017, 06:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I don't like it.  
I didn't think he started the 3 lb weight until this offseason?  I think that carrying the 3 lb ball would actually be harmful to him because he wouldn't be carrying the football the same way and it would be unfamiliar, and then bad things happen.

You mention the over 4 YPC, but last season, when you're praising him for not fumbling, he only averaged 3.8, and he looked timid and didn't hit the holes hard every carry.

I'm questioning Hill because it looks like the fumble killed his confidence, and not to mention he seems like he alienates his teammates when he comes in and scores from a yard out and dances like he did it the entire drive by himself, as I mentioned above.

I love Mixon because he's more complete, was the best back in this draft, and looks like he could be a great pro.

We have AJ, who always causes defenses to give him extra attention, but then we also have the speedy Ross, and not to mention other receivers, so I don't think that defenses can stop what Mixon can do and still guard all of our other weapons.

Go back and watch the game films and see that Hill ran scared, as opposed to his first two years in the league where he'd run like a freight truck and just speed through defenses and plow anyone in the way.

And, to answer your question, I can think of pretty many NFL teams that don't want a back that fumbles in the biggest moment of his life and then can't run hard because he's worrying too much about fumbling.

I'll let the fact that you think a bunch of teams wouldn't want Jeremy Hill on their roster speak for itself.


There was no "running scared"; that just sounds good. 

Jeremy averaged 3.8 YPC last year; Gio averaged 3.7. What do you think we should do with Gio? 

[BFritz21]

(07-29-2017, 07:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll let the fact that you think a bunch of teams wouldn't want Jeremy Hill on their roster speak for itself.


There was no "running scared"; that just sounds good. 

Jeremy averaged 3.8 YPC last year; Gio averaged 3.7. What do you think we should do with Gio? 

Is Gio our between-the-tackles back that we'd rely on to set us up with manageable second and third downs?

Apples to oranges comparison.

[BFritz21]

(07-29-2017, 07:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll let the fact that you think a bunch of teams wouldn't want Jeremy Hill on their roster speak for itself.


There was no "running scared"; that just sounds good. 

Jeremy averaged 3.8 YPC last year; Gio averaged 3.7. What do you think we should do with Gio? 

And are you trying to argue that he ran as hard last season as his first two?

I doubt it, and if he wasn't running scared, then what was it?

[SunsetBengal]

As long as Jeremey Hill remains good at scoring the football, he'll remain an active part of the Bengals offense. Anyone thinking that he'll be benched in favor of the rookie, are pretty much delusional. That is not the way Marvin operates. Sure, Mixon will get his downs, and likely make the most of them. But, don't fool yourself into thinking that the incumbent back isn't going down without a fight.

And, if Mixon DOES end up sitting the bench most of the season, it's still a win-win. As if Hill moves on in free agency, he's just getting them the next coveted comp pick, and Mixon gets a year to acclimate to the pro game.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-29-2017, 06:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course 1 good year matters. It shows you have the ability to perform. 

YPC takes a hit when it is stopped by the endzone 19 times in the last 2 years. 

I get folks like Mixon, but Hill is one of the better backs in the NFL. What team would not want a 230ish lb RB that has 19 TDS s in the last 2 years? Every offensive player on the Cincinnati Bengals took a hit last year.

To say what does he do besides score TDs seems kinda silly IMO

Or it shows you *had* the ability to perform.

So your argument is his YPC is bad because he scores too many TDs? He scored 9 rushing TDs in 2014 and had a 5.1 YPC.. he scored 9 rushing TDs in 2016 and had 3.8 YPC. Nice try.

In fact, the last two years, he has 8.65 YPC on rushing TDs. So his YPC has nothing to do with his TDs. The problem is the 3.44 YPC he's averaged the last two years on carried that WEREN'T touchdowns.

We get it, you love the guy... but he sucks as anything but as a RB inside the 10. Time to accept it like the OSU fans who were defending Nugent coming into last year.

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2017, 07:13 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And are you trying to argue that he ran as hard last season as his first two?

I doubt it, and if he wasn't running scared, then what was it?

Of course he ran as hard last season as he did the first 2.

It was a season where the vast majority of the offense had a down year to include our other RB. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2017, 07:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or it shows you *had* the ability to perform.

So your argument is his YPC is bad because he scores too many TDs? He scored 9 rushing TDs in 2014 and had a 5.1 YPC.. he scored 9 rushing TDs in 2016 and had 3.8 YPC. Nice try.

In fact, the last two years, he has 8.65 YPC on rushing TDs. So his YPC has nothing to do with his TDs. The problem is the 3.44 YPC he's averaged the last two years on carried that WEREN'T touchdowns.

We get it, you love the guy... but he sucks as anything but as a RB inside the 10. Time to accept it like the OSU fans who were defending Nugent coming into last year.

No doubt after 3 years in the NFL Jeremy is a has been.

I love Jeremy no more than I love any other player in stripes and I have zero idea what comparing him to a kicker that has been in the league for 13 years merits. Nor do I get the OSU reference (are you suggesting I'm an LSU "homer"?). 

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2017, 07:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Is Gio our between-the-tackles back that we'd rely on to set us up with manageable second and third downs?

Apples to oranges comparison.

Okey Dokey. 

[Essex Johnson]

(07-29-2017, 07:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or it shows you *had* the ability to perform.

So your argument is his YPC is bad because he scores too many TDs? He scored 9 rushing TDs in 2014 and had a 5.1 YPC.. he scored 9 rushing TDs in 2016 and had 3.8 YPC. Nice try.

In fact, the last two years, he has 8.65 YPC on rushing TDs. So his YPC has nothing to do with his TDs. The problem is the 3.44 YPC he's averaged the last two years on carried that WEREN'T touchdowns.

We get it, you love the guy... but he sucks as anything but as a RB inside the 10. Time to accept it like the OSU fans who were defending Nugent coming into last year.

this seems a bit extreme don;t you think ?? you have blasted the line numerous times so you can;t just lay his bad last two years on just him can you ?? if so I will assume we  give him all the credit for his outstanding rookie season.. correct?

Also you  he had zero fumbles last year that lead the NFL which i think shows he has the desire to get better, he could have just caved after the Steeler fumble but he did not.. kudos to him...

I don;t think we can just say Hill needs to be put out to pasture in the NFL just yet after just 3 years and no real sign of any major injury that would taking out his career.  Sure he might need a change of team to kick start his career or maybe the competition of Mixon will put him back into gear.  if he struggles and Mixon does not it will be a telling sign since they both would be playing behind the same line.. and that will be the best judgement on his ability in his 4th year.. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2017, 11:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: this seems a bit extreme don;t you think ?? you have blasted the line numerous times so you can;t just lay his bad last two years on just him can you ?? if so I will assume we  give him all the credit for his outstanding rookie season.. correct?

Also you  he had zero fumbles last year that lead the NFL which i think shows he has the desire to get better, he could have just caved after the Steeler fumble but he did not.. kudos to him...

I don;t think we can just say Hill needs to be put out to pasture in the NFL just yet after just 3 years and no real sign of any major injury that would taking out his career.  Sure he might need a change of team to kick start his career or maybe the competition of Mixon will put him back into gear.  if he struggles and Mixon does not it will be a telling sign since they both would be playing behind the same line.. and that will be the best judgement on his ability in his 4th year.. 

This is where I'm at. As I mentioned earlier Jeremy had better YPC than Gio last year. 

He is just a kid and has been productive; yet some around here are writing him off. I honestly don't get it.

I hope Jeremy, Joe, and Gio each work hard this year to outdo the other. 

[Luvnit2]

(07-29-2017, 11:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is where I'm at. As I mentioned earlier Jeremy had better YPC than Gio last year. 

He is just a kid and has been productive; yet some around here are writing him off. I honestly don't get it.

I hope Jeremy, Joe, and Gio each work hard this year to outdo the other. 

I am at a loss why some fans literally hate on players. Hill is a vet, Gio is coming back from injury and Mixon has potential with no NFL results. I hope each has a great year, if so we more than likely are back to the playoffs.

I don't get wishing ill will on player A because I like player B better.

[*Go Cards*]

(07-29-2017, 02:35 PM)McC Wrote: They did not draft this guy to sit on the bench.  He will play from day one.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[*Go Cards*]

(07-30-2017, 12:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am at a loss why some fans literally hate on players. Hill is a vet, Gio is coming back from injury and Mixon has potential with no NFL results. I hope each has a great year, if so we more than likely are back to the playoffs.

I don't get wishing ill will on player A because I like player B better.

Agree and think that all will have solid years and great years if O-line can contribute.

Mixon believe has potential to be great, yet has not played a down.

Hill will be motivated from addition of Mixon and have a good year I believe as well.

Gio compliments them both well. Should get his workload lightened and maybe remain healthy too. 

If O-line can do anything the Bengals offense should be lethal. 

[Whatever]

(07-29-2017, 11:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is where I'm at. As I mentioned earlier Jeremy had better YPC than Gio last year. 

He is just a kid and has been productive; yet some around here are writing him off. I honestly don't get it.

I hope Jeremy, Joe, and Gio each work hard this year to outdo the other. 

There's a number of reasons.  His production has dipped since his rookie year, he's been dinged up, and he fumbled away our first playoff win  in 20+ years in a situation where he simply had to stay inbounds and not fumble.

He could bounce back, but we expected him to bounce back this year after a disappointing sophomore campaign, and it didn't happen.  I hope the best man wins the job, but I don't think it will be Hill.