How and Why.

[TKUHL]

If you asked anyone 3/4 of the way through the season last year what we needed more than anything the answer would have been Oline and D line to an extent. So what gives? Why the hell is this still an issue after FA and what, 11 damn draft picks.

I know according to experts the draft wasn't loaded with talented OLinemen but is it when they say it is. It's always a crap shoot no matter what. You still have to try. We had so much to work with to improve this line, even had a backup QB along with all the draft picks to make something happen. What did we do? As little as possible, as cheap as possible.

Oline should have been the top priority this off season. But we let ourselves get fixated on skill players (who I'm sure are good) but that dosent make it the right decision. This franchise just completely flopped this offseason. No creativity whatsoever in FA with other players or our own, going into the draft having the same issues and still completely ignoring the obvious.

It's always the same arguments every year why we can't fix a repeating problem/problems. But you can't argue that we didn't have the money or ammo to make changes for the better. Whit should have retired a Bengal. We did get rid of some dead weight finally and decided to upgrade over Hill, but we have yet to find anyone to step up as a replacement to most of the players that we let go the past couple years.

Lost player. Replacement
Whit. ? OG, no need to say anymore
Zeilter. ? Hopkins who knows, are big FA signing can't even get on the field with the first string.
Nelson. ? Shaun Williams has been bad, now injured.
Maualuga ? Minter looks pretty slow out there. Still may be an upgrade.
Peko. ? Billings had a year to learn and so far it's the mental part of the game where he struggles. That's concerning.
Sanu ? Boyd, the only decent replacement so what do we do, draft a WR at #9 of course.
Marvin Jones. ? Ross, why...LaFell and Core looked good, Erickson constantly overlooked. I'm sure Ross will be fine, I just think we had more pressing needs than WR.

Now so far this pre season we have vet players looking bad like M. Johnson even Dunlap and Adkins have been quite. Then you mix in the lack of basic fundamentals such as tackling and it's hard not to be critical of this team even though it is only pre season.

So my question is How and Why. Why do both lines look like complete garbage. Why did we seem to have no urgency in the offseason to address the Oline. How do you fix this shit show in 2 weeks.

[muskiesfan]

The answer is Mike Brown and Alexander the Great. Brown believes in his joke of an OLine coach. Our OLine coach stands behind his guys regardless of their actual production. So that is the problem with the OLine.

The DLine is because Marvin cut Guenther's balls right off of him last season. Who makes the most plays the most. Mike Brown isn't going to pay someone like Michael Johnson a bunch of money to ride the pine. Last season, Guenther threatened to shake things up and start giving the young guys a shot. The very next day (if memory serves it was the next day), Lewis came out and said no, that's not how it's going to work. So our D Coordinator is willing to play best player, Lewis and Brown are not. Highest paid plays.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

This organization has a real hard time admitting mistakes, whether in trades or draft picks...they are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. See Marvin Lewis.

[*bfine32*]

Valid point about failing to address the Oline

Non-Valid point about failing to address the Dline

WTS, I believe they did not go overboard on Oline because they felt they had adequate replacements on hand. Will it pan out? Unlike many; I do not know after only the 2nd PS game, I will say I am heartened in the face that our exterior Olinemen have not given up a sack and very little pressure. The sack in the Chiefs game was not the fault of any one olineman. The Chiefs brought the house at the perfect time. Andy needs to check down to the hot back (the dude that should have picked up the late blitzer.

[THE PISTONS]

Hey...they added 2 flashy skill players in the draft. Misdirection much like a magician. Don't look at the line...we have the fastest guy in the history of the draft - Who by the way can't get on the field in preseason games because of injuries.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-20-2017, 08:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Valid point about failing to address the Oline

Non-Valid point about failing to address the Dline

WTS, I believe they did not go overboard on Oline because they felt they had adequate replacements on hand. Will it pan out? Unlike many; I do not know after only the 2nd PS game, I will say I am heartened in the face that our exterior Olinemen have not given up a sack and very little pressure. The sack in the Chiefs game was not the fault of any one olineman. The Chiefs brought the house at the perfect time. Andy needs to check down to the hot back (the dude that should have picked up the late blitzer.

It's simple.

They had no Plan B on Whitworth in free agency. They thought Whitworth was coming back. They were telling people at the combine that he was. Then he left...and Ced became Plan B.

Then, they knew Zeitler would leave. Good Guards got around $8.5 million. They weren't spending that.

So they scrambled and signed Andre Smith after they lost both.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2017, 07:07 PM)TKUHL Wrote: If you asked anyone 3/4 of the way through the season last year what we needed more than anything the answer would have been Oline and D line to an extent. So what gives? Why the hell is this still an issue after FA and what, 11 damn draft picks.

I know according to experts the draft wasn't loaded with talented OLinemen but is it when they say it is. It's always a crap shoot no matter what. You still have to try. We had so much to work with to improve this line, even had a backup QB along with all the draft picks to make something happen. What did we do? As little as possible, as cheap as possible.

Oline should have been the top priority this off season. But we let ourselves get fixated on skill players (who I'm sure are good) but that dosent make it the right decision. This franchise just completely flopped this offseason. No creativity whatsoever in FA with other players or our own, going into the draft having the same issues and still completely ignoring the obvious.

It's always the same arguments every year why we can't fix a repeating problem/problems. But you can't argue that we didn't have the money or ammo to make changes for the better. Whit should have retired a Bengal. We did get rid of some dead weight finally and decided to upgrade over Hill, but we have yet to find anyone to step up as a replacement to most of the players that we let go the past couple years.

Lost player.       Replacement
Whit.                 ? OG, no need to say anymore
Zeilter.               ? Hopkins who knows, are big FA signing can't even get on the field with the first string.
Nelson.              ? Shaun Williams has been bad, now injured.
Maualuga           ? Minter looks pretty slow out there. Still may be an upgrade.
Peko.                 ? Billings had a year to learn and so far it's the mental part of the game where he struggles. That's concerning.
Sanu                  ? Boyd, the only decent replacement so what do we do, draft a WR at #9 of course.
Marvin Jones.      ? Ross, why...LaFell and Core looked good, Erickson constantly overlooked. I'm sure Ross will be fine, I just think we had more pressing needs than WR.

Now so far this pre season we have vet players looking bad like M. Johnson even Dunlap and Adkins have been quite. Then you mix in the lack of basic fundamentals such as tackling and it's hard not to be critical of this team even though it is only pre season.

So my question is How and Why. Why do both lines look like complete garbage. Why did we seem to have no urgency in the offseason to address the Oline. How do you fix this shit show in 2 weeks.

The answer to your question is that fans, especially on message boards, like to complain, and when something doesn't work out act like it was just stupidity by the front office. No one wanted them to keep Reggie Nelson more than me, he was one of my favorite players. That said, how loudly and often do we hear people complain the younger players never get a shot at the field because the front office it too loyal to the vets? Numerous times a day!! So when they move on to the young guy, and he's not as good, the same people say that was a stupid decision. We had to add receivers this year. As much as I like Erickson and LaFell, nobody not named AJ Green could get any separation last year. Something had to give. Fan favorite bash boy Maualuga.... I suspect he will be missed this year. He never looked great on the field, but as we found out several times when he was injured, we were better with him than without him. Same with Peko. Everyone is salivating over Billings. I have high hopes for him as well, but he hasn't shown much outside the weight room and has yet to play a regular season game. Signing Whit to a 1 year deal would have been great, problem is, he wanted a 3 year deal, which is stupid at his age. Zeitler, they should have paid him. Sanu and Jones left to have a bigger role on the field, not because of money. They would never be a #1 with AJ on the team and knew it. That's no ones fault. As far as drafting an Olineman, when their aren't any, there aren't any..... though I stand by my position they should have drafted Jon Toth. As far as Atkins, Johnson etc being quiet in the pre-season, it's the pre season. They are just trying to not get hurt. 3rd game coming up this week, that's the only one where they will be going full out....

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2017, 07:07 PM)TKUHL Wrote: If you asked anyone 3/4 of the way through the season last year what we needed more than anything the answer would have been Oline and D line to an extent. So what gives? Why the hell is this still an issue after FA and what, 11 damn draft picks.

I know according to experts the draft wasn't loaded with talented OLinemen but is it when they say it is. It's always a crap shoot no matter what. You still have to try. We had so much to work with to improve this line, even had a backup QB along with all the draft picks to make something happen. What did we do? As little as possible, as cheap as possible.

Oline should have been the top priority this off season. But we let ourselves get fixated on skill players (who I'm sure are good) but that dosent make it the right decision. This franchise just completely flopped this offseason. No creativity whatsoever in FA with other players or our own, going into the draft having the same issues and still completely ignoring the obvious.

It's always the same arguments every year why we can't fix a repeating problem/problems. But you can't argue that we didn't have the money or ammo to make changes for the better. Whit should have retired a Bengal. We did get rid of some dead weight finally and decided to upgrade over Hill, but we have yet to find anyone to step up as a replacement to most of the players that we let go the past couple years.

Lost player.       Replacement
Whit.                 ? OG, no need to say anymore
Zeilter.               ? Hopkins who knows, are big FA signing can't even get on the field with the first string.
Nelson.              ? Shaun Williams has been bad, now injured.
Maualuga           ? Minter looks pretty slow out there. Still may be an upgrade.
Peko.                 ? Billings had a year to learn and so far it's the mental part of the game where he struggles. That's concerning.
Sanu                  ? Boyd, the only decent replacement so what do we do, draft a WR at #9 of course.
Marvin Jones.      ? Ross, why...LaFell and Core looked good, Erickson constantly overlooked. I'm sure Ross will be fine, I just think we had more pressing needs than WR.

Now so far this pre season we have vet players looking bad like M. Johnson even Dunlap and Adkins have been quite. Then you mix in the lack of basic fundamentals such as tackling and it's hard not to be critical of this team even though it is only pre season.

So my question is How and Why. Why do both lines look like complete garbage. Why did we seem to have no urgency in the offseason to address the Oline. How do you fix this shit show in 2 weeks.

You're right, WR was not such a need that one was needed to be selected in the top 10. However, you should know by now that the Bengals have stopped drafting for need in the first round for awhile now. Ross was considered BPA by the Bengals at that point.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2017, 08:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Valid point about failing to address the Oline

Non-Valid point about failing to address the Dline

WTS, I believe they did not go overboard on Oline because they felt they had adequate replacements on hand. Will it pan out? Unlike many; I do not know after only the 2nd PS game, I will say I am heartened in the face that our exterior Olinemen have not given up a sack and very little pressure. The sack in the Chiefs game was not the fault of any one olineman. The Chiefs brought the house at the perfect time. Andy needs to check down to the hot back (the dude that should have picked up the late blitzer.

This and maybe they also felt that this draft and FA were not particularly loaded with good OL talent either.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-21-2017, 08:54 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The answer to your question is that fans, especially on message boards, like to complain, and when something doesn't work out act like it was just stupidity by the front office. No one wanted them to keep Reggie Nelson more than me, he was one of my favorite players. That said, how loudly and often do we hear people complain the younger players never get a shot at the field because the front office it too loyal to the vets? Numerous times a day!! So when they move on to the young guy, and he's not as good, the same people say that was a stupid decision. We had to add receivers this year. As much as I like Erickson and LaFell, nobody not named AJ Green could get any separation last year. Something had to give. Fan favorite bash boy Maualuga.... I suspect he will be missed this year. He never looked great on the field, but as we found out several times when he was injured, we were better with him than without him. Same with Peko. Everyone is salivating over Billings. I have high hopes for him as well, but he hasn't shown much outside the weight room and has yet to play a regular season game. Signing Whit to a 1 year deal would have been great, problem is, he wanted a 3 year deal, which is stupid at his age. Zeitler, they should have paid him. Sanu and Jones left to have a bigger role on the field, not because of money. They would never be a #1 with AJ on the team and knew it. That's no ones fault. As far as drafting an Olineman, when their aren't any, there aren't any..... though I stand by my position they should have drafted Jon Toth. As far as Atkins, Johnson etc being quiet in the pre-season, it's the pre season. They are just trying to not get hurt. 3rd game coming up this week, that's the only one where they will be going full out....

All I want is for the Bengals to draft all good players that pan out and can replace aging vets immediately. Is that so much to ask?

[Sled21]

(08-21-2017, 09:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: All I want is for the Bengals to draft all good players that pan out and can replace aging vets immediately. Is that so much to ask?

Nope, if someone would give them a crystal ball anad the benefit of hindsight it should be easy

[THE PISTONS]

(08-21-2017, 09:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You're right, WR was not such a need that one was needed to be selected in the top 10. However, you should know by now that the Bengals have stopped drafting for need in the first round for awhile now. Ross was considered BPA by the Bengals at that point.

It's classic misdirection. They needed lineman so they drafted 2 flash skill players to distract you from the poor line and sell tickets.

WR is a need in the sense that AJ Green is 29. His years of being an elite WR are going to come to an end soon. Just as he declines, Ross hopefully will be elite.

[bengals67]

pre season games are completely meaningless

[SunsetBengal]

(08-20-2017, 09:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's simple.

They had no Plan B on Whitworth in free agency. They thought Whitworth was coming back. They were telling people at the combine that he was. Then he left...and Ced became Plan B.

Then, they knew Zeitler would leave. Good Guards got around $8.5 million. They weren't spending that.

So they scrambled and signed Andre Smith after they lost both.

I'm not so sure of that.  I really think that they were planning on Ogbuehi taking over for Whit, at the end of Whit's contract, no matter what.  However, after seeing how Ogbuehi floundered last season, they were likely hoping, if not counting on Whitworth to come back on a team friendly deal.  From how I see it, they gambled and lost.  Now, they are stuck in a position that in order to get someone better, it's going to cost them.  And we all know how they feel about making "costly" deals.

[BenZoo2]

Well this draft can't be fully graded for a couple years. I like the first two picks. Our offense was lacking playmakers outside of aj and a healthy eifert.

I liked the next 2 picks. Our pass rush needed a boost.

I was supposedly a down year for oline. Next year looks to better. They couldn't address all of our perceived needs.

I think when whit got his offer the bengals knew he was gone cuz there weren't going to match that. I just hope the line can step it up. I'm not writing them off yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-21-2017, 08:54 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The answer to your question is that fans, especially on message boards, like to complain, and when something doesn't work out act like it was just stupidity by the front office. No one wanted them to keep Reggie Nelson more than me, he was one of my favorite players. That said, how loudly and often do we hear people complain the younger players never get a shot at the field because the front office it too loyal to the vets? Numerous times a day!! So when they move on to the young guy, and he's not as good, the same people say that was a stupid decision. We had to add receivers this year. As much as I like Erickson and LaFell, nobody not named AJ Green could get any separation last year. Something had to give. Fan favorite bash boy Maualuga.... I suspect he will be missed this year. He never looked great on the field, but as we found out several times when he was injured, we were better with him than without him. Same with Peko. Everyone is salivating over Billings. I have high hopes for him as well, but he hasn't shown much outside the weight room and has yet to play a regular season game. Signing Whit to a 1 year deal would have been great, problem is, he wanted a 3 year deal, which is stupid at his age. Zeitler, they should have paid him. Sanu and Jones left to have a bigger role on the field, not because of money. They would never be a #1 with AJ on the team and knew it. That's no ones fault. As far as drafting an Olineman, when their aren't any, there aren't any..... though I stand by my position they should have drafted Jon Toth. As far as Atkins, Johnson etc being quiet in the pre-season, it's the pre season. They are just trying to not get hurt. 3rd game coming up this week, that's the only one where they will be going full out....

It's a little different when it's a vet like Maualuga and the like vs a Reggie Nelson.  You think Rey will be missed?  I don't.

I can get on board with the rest of the post, but no one picked up 58 until two days ago.  I don't keep up with Miami, but I wonder if they had an injury at the LB position.  Nelson, on the other hand, was coming off a career year, and had another solid season in Oaktown.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-21-2017, 04:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not so sure of that.  I really think that they were planning on Ogbuehi taking over for Whit, at the end of Whit's contract, no matter what.  However, after seeing how Ogbuehi floundered last season, they were likely hoping, if not counting on Whitworth to come back on a team friendly deal.  From how I see it, they gambled and lost.  Now, they are stuck in a position that in order to get someone better, it's going to cost them.  And we all know how they feel about making "costly" deals.

That's basically what I meant. They thought Whitworth would come so we didn't have to start Ced and didn't look at external free agent options to give Ced more time.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-21-2017, 06:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's basically what I meant. They thought Whitworth would come so we didn't have to start Ced and didn't look at external free agent options to give Ced more time.

As I seem to remember, with the impending "weak crop" of LT candidates expected in this past draft, not only was the LT class in the NFL free agency season lean on LTs in number, but made their prices rather high.

But yes, I do seem to remember some viable options being available after Whit elected to sign with LA.  Maybe not the caliber of player we're used to at LT, but at least some proven, known commodities, capable of starting.

Best available free agents (current)

Actually, I see a few players that could improve this team.

Ryan Clady
Dwight Freeney
Jared Odrick
Devin Taylor 
Jairus Byrd (with the recent injury to Williams)

[McC]

(08-20-2017, 09:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Hey...they added 2 flashy skill players in the draft. Misdirection much like a magician. Don't look at the line...we have the fastest guy in the history of the draft - Who by the way can't get on the field in preseason games because of injuries.

He had surgery to fix what he played all last season with.    As a result, he has missed a grand total of two preseason games and he probably could have played last week.

Can't lose all perspective over one bad preseason game.

[Rattler]

Look no further than O-line coordinator for the root of this perpetual carnie show.