So the big elephant in the room....

[impactplaya]

It's quite evident Andy Dalton and Ken Zampese just are not a good combination.
I can't exactly pin point in terms of all the intracies and schematics of the offense I will leave that to the smarter posters but my eyes tell me this not a good marriage
What got me thinking was Hue Jackson vs the Steelers last week.
DeShon Kizer 1st NFL start. Very average WR/TE core.
Yet they score 18 points vs a defense that the Bengals struggle with.
Yet I look at the Bengals output Sunday
0 pts
Red zone issues last year red zone issues game 1.
Hmmm common thread....Ken Zampese.
When Hue was OC here Dalton was automatic in the red zone
Awesome TD to Int ratio.
Sunday Dalton throws a pass he would not throw 2 years ago.
I could go on and on .but I will let the smarter posters help full in my thoughts

[*bengalfan74*]

I hear ya,

But I don't think it's just Dalton and Zampese. I mean I don't believe Zampese and __________ any QB would be a good fit. Zampese is just not an NFL level OC.

Zampese is in way over his head ! Think deer in the headlights

[GodFather]

(09-12-2017, 11:42 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I hear ya,

But I don't think it's just Dalton and Zampese. I mean I don't believe Zampese and __________ any QB would be a good fit. Zampese is just not an NFL level OC.

Zampese is in way over his head ! Think deer in the headlights

I agree, I call this a lazy hiring in the front office. When Hue left we should've actively looked for the best replacement possible but instead promoted the QB coach. Lazy....

[bambino5130]

I don't know, we can gripe about Dalton & Zampese till we are blue in the face, we can complain about Marvin or the front office, but to me the elephant in the room is still this putrid Offensive Line. They let two of the best at their positions walk & wonder why the offense is sputtering? With a great class of lineman next year, what's it going to take to get another first round pick & draft two Mamoths up front?

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-13-2017, 12:01 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I don't know, we can gripe about Dalton & Zampese till we are blue in the face, we can complain about Marvin or the front office, but to me the elephant in the room is still this putrid Offensive Line. They let two of the best at their positions walk & wonder why the offense is sputtering? With a great class of lineman next year, what's it going to take to get another first round pick & draft two Mamoths up front?

Oh I don't think there's any doubt they really, really dropped the ball ignoring our O-line woes from last season, letting our two best go and just rolling with what clearly was a poor line.

But having said that Zampese does Dalton and this line zero favors ! He doesn't know how, nor will he next week, or next month, or next year. 

Zampese would struggle calling plays for the best offenses to ever take the field. He has no clue what so ever how to even begin to overcome our problems.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-13-2017, 12:01 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I don't know, we can gripe about Dalton & Zampese till we are blue in the face, we can complain about Marvin or the front office, but to me the elephant in the room is still this putrid Offensive Line. They let two of the best at their positions walk & wonder why the offense is sputtering? With a great class of lineman next year, what's it going to take to get another first round pick & draft two Mamoths up front?

Idk...I feel like that game (wait til next draft!) could go on forever.

By the time we get settled at tackle and center, we'll have a gaping hole somewhere else.

And we've already seen what Marv and co can do when they have a stacked roster.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-13-2017, 12:15 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Oh I don't think there's any doubt they really, really dropped the ball ignoring our O-line woes from last season, letting our two best go and just rolling with what clearly was a poor line.

But having said that Zampese does Dalton and this line zero favors ! He doesn't know how, nor will he next week, or next month, or next year. 

Zampese would struggle calling plays for the best offenses to ever take the field. He has no clue what so ever how to even begin to overcome our problems.

Agree all around. Everyone saw this coming after last year and they did zilch to  make it right. This off-season was a pathetic joke. And yes, Zampese is in way over his head. 

[Thundercloud]

It is absolutely the offensive line, and they have absolutely made a series of astounding, blundering, unbelievable mistakes on putting this team together. We've all talked about it, but that's water over the dam at this point.

Who's got an idea on what to do?

I think probably the best two tackles on the team right now are Fisher and Andre Smith. Figure out which side you want them on and go forward for a few games to see how it works. In the mean time, let Duke Tobin conduct an extensive search on the best tackle who is unsigned right now. Maybe see if there's a trade out there somewhere.

Whatever we do, we can't keep trying to make something out of Ogbuehi. We went down the drain last season trying to make it work with him on the right side. He retreats too fast, has no punch and very poor lateral movement. There may be some hope for him, but he needs to elevate his level of play before he gets back in the lineup. But if he can't do it, the coaches have to face it and move on.

We saw an outburst from AJ Green last Sunday, which is very uncharacteristic for him. I think many players saw this coming, and I wonder if it isn't eating at AJ a little bit. He's a great team guy and a great player, but I'm sure he wonders what they were thinking.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Keep in mind Zampese spent a majority of his assistant days under Bob Bratkowski, that's like 7 years of bad tutelage under Bob. I'm afraid what we are seeing is basically Bratkowski 2.0.

[HarleyDog]

(09-13-2017, 06:45 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Keep in mind Zampese spent a majority of his assistant days under Bob Bratkowski, that's like 7 years of bad tutelage under Bob. I'm afraid what we are seeing is basically Bratkowski 2.0.

Good Lord your probably right. Look how long it took to get rid of Brat and he was pure awful? Marvin's been here forever and when he leaves, we know Zamp will take his spot as HC. We are doomed.

[Sled21]

(09-13-2017, 12:01 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I don't know, we can gripe about Dalton & Zampese till we are blue in the face, we can complain about Marvin or the front office, but to me the elephant in the room is still this putrid Offensive Line. They let two of the best at their positions walk & wonder why the offense is sputtering? With a great class of lineman next year, what's it going to take to get another first round pick & draft two Mamoths up front?

The "elephant in the room" is Marvin Lewis. To open with a team that you should clearly beat, who has barely any starters left uninjured, and to not have your team ready to play and get blanked all over your home field? Lewis should have been fired the next morning.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-12-2017, 11:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's quite evident Andy Dalton and Ken Zampese just are not a good combination.
I can't exactly pin point in terms of all the intracies and schematics of the offense I will leave that to the smarter posters but my eyes tell me this not a good marriage
What got me thinking was Hue Jackson vs the Steelers last week.
DeShon Kizer 1st NFL start. Very average WR/TE core.
Yet they score 18 points vs a defense that the Bengals struggle with.
Yet I look at the Bengals output Sunday
0 pts
Red zone issues last year red zone issues game 1.
Hmmm common thread....Ken Zampese.
When Hue was OC here Dalton was automatic in the red zone
Awesome TD to Int ratio.
Sunday Dalton throws a pass he would not throw 2 years ago.
I could go on and on .but I will let the smarter posters help full in my thoughts

There was a succession plan in place.  Cleveland was fantastic by not letting Hue leave without a deal.  They simply wanted him more and got him.  And we were left with Marv and Zamp.

One other thing that Marv said in his presser that made me want to vomit:  When questioned about punting on 4th and 5 on the Ratbird 45 with 10 minutes left in the game, down 20 points, he replied:  "We still got the ball back three more times".  Does he even realize the time component lost by that punt?  Is he really that stupid?  He basically had quit right there at that point and I saw a lot of fans head to the door, and a bet a lot of them never come back.  Asshole. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2017, 11:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's quite evident Andy Dalton and Ken Zampese just are not a good combination.
I can't exactly pin point in terms of all the intracies and schematics of the offense I will leave that to the smarter posters but my eyes tell me this not a good marriage
What got me thinking was Hue Jackson vs the Steelers last week.
DeShon Kizer 1st NFL start. Very average WR/TE core.
Yet they score 18 points vs a defense that the Bengals struggle with.
Yet I look at the Bengals output Sunday
0 pts
Red zone issues last year red zone issues game 1.
Hmmm common thread....Ken Zampese.
When Hue was OC here Dalton was automatic in the red zone
Awesome TD to Int ratio.
Sunday Dalton throws a pass he would not throw 2 years ago.
I could go on and on .but I will let the smarter posters help full in my thoughts

You'll find some discussion on the scheming here....

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Ken-Zampese--12368



As for the chemistry between the two, don't forget he was also Palmer's QB coach.  Both he and Dalton had some issues....especially with the out route.  It took Dalton going to Tom House to fix a lot of his problems.  Face it, dude can't coach two dogs *****, and this clown show promoted him to OC.  SMH.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-13-2017, 08:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There was a succession plan in place.  Cleveland was fantastic by not letting Hue leave without a deal.  They simply wanted him more and got him.  And we were left with Marv and Zamp.

One other thing that Marv said in his presser that made me want to vomit:  When questioned about punting on 4th and 5 on the Ratbird 45 with 10 minutes left in the game, down 20 points, he replied:  "We still got the ball back three more times".  Does he even realize the time component lost by that punt?  Is he really that stupid?  He basically had quit right there at that point and I saw a lot of fans head to the door, and a bet a lot of them never come back.  Asshole. 

Thing is, we weren't left with Zamp, we chose to promote him......the Mike Clown way.  There absolutely should have been someone brought in from outside the staff to fill that role.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I like to play the "would they" game from time to time.

"If all 32 teams were starting from scratch and every player and coach were available, would they (the person in question) be given their current job by any of the other 31 teams?"

It's not a flawless game, but it's fun to play sometimes.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-13-2017, 09:17 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I like to play the "would they" game from time to time.

"If all 32 teams were starting from scratch and every player and coach were available, would they (the person in question) be given their current job by any of the other 31 teams?"

It's not a flawless game, but it's fun to play sometimes.

HC - Yeah, probably. Probably a bottom dweller.
OC - No. Just no.
DC - Yea, most likely. Paulie has had some good defenses. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-13-2017, 09:23 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: HC - Yeah, probably. Probably a bottom dweller.
OC - No. Just no.
DC - Yea, most likely. Paulie has had some good defenses. 

Paulie is about it.....

[Hoofhearted]

(09-13-2017, 09:24 AM)Wyche Wrote: Paulie is about it.....

Marv is REALLY tough to gauge anymore. I believe his message is just stale and ignored anymore. He's not one of the worst HC out there today tho. He's certainly not the best, but I believe he would get another gig.

[Daddy-O]

(09-12-2017, 11:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's quite evident Andy Dalton and Ken Zampese just are not a good combination.
I can't exactly pin point in terms of all the intracies and schematics of the offense I will leave that to the smarter posters but my eyes tell me this not a good marriage
What got me thinking was Hue Jackson vs the Steelers last week.
DeShon Kizer 1st NFL start. Very average WR/TE core.
Yet they score 18 points vs a defense that the Bengals struggle with.
Yet I look at the Bengals output Sunday
0 pts
Red zone issues last year red zone issues game 1.
Hmmm common thread....Ken Zampese.
When Hue was OC here Dalton was automatic in the red zone
Awesome TD to Int ratio.
Sunday Dalton throws a pass he would not throw 2 years ago.
I could go on and on .but I will let the smarter posters help full in my thoughts

Yeah Zampese is a nice guy but is hanging on the family name, which worked 25 years ago but not in today's NFL.

All it took for me was watching the Saints / Vikings game the other night to see what an offense should/could look like.  Granted the Saints lost the game on the road to a very good Vikings team, but it was very evident that there is a giant distance between how they approach offense and the Bengals.  

Sadly, the Bengals are just wasting unbelievable talent with their current approach.

Zampese is obviously in over his head but he is not the only one to blame.  It starts at the top, beginning with Mike and Marvin's approach to succession - seemingly always within.  As John Madden used to say "a coach only has at best 10 years because they run out of ideas".  Not to mention the message gets stale.  Only in Bengaldome could Marvin hang around this long.  Good for him I guess...

[*ochocincos*]

(09-12-2017, 11:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's quite evident Andy Dalton and Ken Zampese just are not a good combination.
I can't exactly pin point in terms of all the intracies and schematics of the offense I will leave that to the smarter posters but my eyes tell me this not a good marriage
What got me thinking was Hue Jackson vs the Steelers last week.
DeShon Kizer 1st NFL start. Very average WR/TE core.
Yet they score 18 points vs a defense that the Bengals struggle with.
Yet I look at the Bengals output Sunday
0 pts
Red zone issues last year red zone issues game 1.
Hmmm common thread....Ken Zampese.
When Hue was OC here Dalton was automatic in the red zone
Awesome TD to Int ratio.
Sunday Dalton throws a pass he would not throw 2 years ago.
I could go on and on .but I will let the smarter posters help full in my thoughts

Certain people are good at only coaching one particular thing and struggle when changing/expanding their roles. I believe Zampese is a great example of this. He's been a fine QB coach (at least it seems), but it doesn't seem like he's very good at being an OC. That may be jumping the gun a bit because both Hue and Gruden made improvements in their second year at OC, but from what I've observed so far, he's worse than both of them.