The shortest path to winning in the NFL is to get a Top 10 QB

[THE PISTONS]

Dalton is a decent QB. With a good line and good WR's...he can be somewhere around a Top 12 to 16 QB. Maybe he has a career year and gets up to 10.

With a bad offensive line, he's going to be a bottom tier QB in the league. We're seeing that. Even when he doesn't get pressure, he expects it and makes a bad throw.

As we saw from the playoff appearances, he's an above average guy...but not good enough to transcend this horribly managed franchise and put the team on its back.

While I like Dalton, it's time to move on to McCarron to see what we have. Can he be a Top 10 QB? I doubt he can, but we need to atleast see.

If McCarron can't, chances are we're going to get a Top 5 pick and can draft one of the elite QB's.

Because, this is a QB driven league.

Without Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, etc...those teams wouldn't be elite.

We average Andy. When you're average...sometimes you're good. Sometimes you're bad. Most of the time you're average. That's not good enough.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Got yourself a problem there.

You want a top-10 QB because you have a bad OL and OC, but a top-10 QB with this OL and this OC wouldn't be a top-10 QB anymore.

[Big Boss]

Dalton is more mobile and has a faster release than McCarron. Say nothing about actual on-field experience.

I honestly don't know what some of you would expect. The pocket caves in almost immediately on what feels like every play and McCarron is not shifty or elusive enough to avoid the oncoming pressure. Put him behind this line and we're even worse off than we are now.

[740Bengal]

How about a top 30 OC?

[bengals67]

the shortest path is to have a top 5 offensive line.

Paul brown understood this. His first draft pick was a center.

Would Bodine still be our center for four years if Paul brown was in charge???

Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, etc would be floundering with our offensive line.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 11:28 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Dalton is more mobile and has a faster release than McCarron.  Say nothing about actual on-field experience.

I honestly don't know what some of you would expect.  The pocket caves in almost immediately on what feels like every play and McCarron is not shifty or elusive enough to avoid the oncoming pressure.  Put him behind this line and we're even worse off than we are now.

Dalton had a good pocket a lot last night and just missed wide open guys.

Look...Dalton isn't bad like I said. He's what 0-5 in the playoffs too. He's not a guy that can put a franchise on his back and win.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-15-2017, 11:44 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton had a good pocket a lot last night and just missed wide open guys.

Look...Dalton isn't bad like I said. He's what 0-5 in the playoffs too. He's not a guy that can put a franchise on his back and win.

Either we watched different games, or we have different definitions of "a lot".

0-4, and the other 3 QBs who have played in the postseason under Marvin Lewis are 0-3. The postseason and prime time issues have been the exact same under Lewis, regardless of who the QB was.

[Hammerstripes]

(09-15-2017, 11:26 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Got yourself a problem there.

You want a top-10 QB because you have a bad OL and OC, but a top-10 QB with this OL and this OC wouldn't be a top-10 QB anymore.

Yeah, but when you draft a QB early, you save a ton of money, you can let Dalton go and use that money to build the team around your top 5 pick.

You don't need to play him year 1.  If you fix the line and he can handle it, then you do.  Hell, maybe even think about signing a free agent O-lineman.

[CageTheBengal]

I don't see how Dalton is the problem here.

Even if we had Rodgers on the team he'd be fighting like hell and would have to make some great plays to make us competitive. 

Imo regardless of who the QB is this isn't a playoff team. Why would we move on from Dalton when he has proven he can be a great QB with the right pieces around him? Why can't we have a competition?

Getting rid of Dalton would be a rash move that doesn't help us. Especially if Marvin is still here.

[Millhouse]

Bengals could have drafted Watson instead of Ross. I know too early to know about Watson, but the kid is like a McCarron coming out of college but with legs that can run.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 11:47 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Yeah, but when you draft a QB early, you save a ton of money, you can let Dalton go and use that money to build the team around your top 5 pick.

You don't need to play him year 1.  If you fix the line and he can handle it, then you do.  Hell, maybe even think about signing a free agent O-lineman.

IF the Bengals actually used saved cap space to sign lineman that would be great.

They had $18.6 million in cap space and let Zeitler and Whitworth walk.

Guys like Ronald Leary and Mangold would help a lot. Then save the $3 million on Andre Smith. 

[Hammerstripes]

(09-15-2017, 11:47 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I don't see how Dalton is the problem here.

Even if we had Rodgers on the team he'd be fighting like hell and would have to make some great plays to make us competitive. 

Imo regardless of who the QB is this isn't a playoff team. Why would we move on from Dalton when he has proven he can be a great QB with the right pieces around him? Why can't we have a competition?

Getting rid of Dalton would be a rash move that doesn't help us. Especially if Marvin is still here.

Well, if we had an elite QB, a lot of those throws that have been way off mark this year would be completions.  An elite QB wouldn't throw the int into coverage in the end zone that Dalton did vs. Baltimore.  You can't tell me that even with a crappy line that a great QB couldn't do a ton of damage with Green, Eifert and Gio/Mixon out of the backfield.

Big Ben had a crap line for quite some time, still won.  Manning had a crap line for awhile, still won.  Rodgers hasn't always had a great line, still wins.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 11:47 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I don't see how Dalton is the problem here.

Even if we had Rodgers on the team he'd be fighting like hell and would have to make some great plays to make us competitive. 

Imo regardless of who the QB is this isn't a playoff team. Why would we move on from Dalton when he has proven he can be a great QB with the right pieces around him? Why can't we have a competition?

Getting rid of Dalton would be a rash move that doesn't help us. Especially if Marvin is still here.

Dalton has never proven to be a great QB. At his best, he's somewhere in the 12-16 range of QB's in the NFL.

Is that enough to win a Super Bowl? Only if you have one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL typically.

[Hammerstripes]

(09-15-2017, 11:50 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF the Bengals actually used saved cap space to sign lineman that would be great.

They had $18.6 million in cap space and let Zeitler and Whitworth walk.

Guys like Ronald Leary and Mangold would help a lot. Then save the $3 million on Andre Smith. 

That's exactly what should have happened.

IF, and I'm just saying IF, the Bengals are in position to draft Rosen, Darnold or Allen, they need to do it.

Spend the next 2 picks on O-line and make damn sure you have a sound line.  Teams can and have won with a rookie QB and good line play.

You would also pick up $17 million on letting Dalton go.  That would make it easy to fill ALL needs.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 11:52 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, if we had an elite QB, a lot of those throws that have been way off mark this year would be completions.  An elite QB wouldn't throw the int into coverage in the end zone that Dalton did vs. Baltimore.  You can't tell me that even with a crappy line that a great QB couldn't do a ton of damage with Green, Eifert and Gio/Mixon out of the backfield.

Big Ben had a crap line for quite some time, still won.  Manning had a crap line for awhile, still won.  Rodgers hasn't always had a great line, still wins.

Perfect post. And when you blitz Roethlisberger or Rodgers...that means you have single coverage somewhere and they find the hot read and make you pay.

Dalton missed a bunch of open throws.

Like I said...he's an average QB. He's the Marvin Lewis of QB's. We can keep him and be average. Average means sometimes you're good. Sometimes bad. Mostly average.

IF we had an elite QB, we'd be good most of the time.

[Au165]

The whole premise for this thread is flawed. Look at all the top QB's, most were drafted 10 years ago. The issue is colleges are struggling to produce legit NFL prospects anymroe. It is easy to say lets move on, but look at all the teams that have been searching for their franchise QB for the last decade let alone a top 10 one. I am not saying Andy is the answer going forward but it really isn't as easy as people like to think it is to find a QB. Think for a second how much freaking Money Kirk Cousins is getting paid then you realize the league has a QB issue.

By the way Watson doesn't look to even be a decent NFL QB, so I am not sure why everyone is so excited. Dalton looked better in his first two starts his rookie year and that was without any sort of off season program.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Sorry. This is how things like Akili Smith happen.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-15-2017, 11:47 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Yeah, but when you draft a QB early, you save a ton of money, you can let Dalton go and use that money to build the team around your top 5 pick.

You don't need to play him year 1.  If you fix the line and he can handle it, then you do.  Hell, maybe even think about signing a free agent O-lineman.

Cool story. Enjoy randomly getting someone from this list:
Blake Borltes
EJ Manuel
Rober Griffin III
Ryan Tannehill
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz

That's the QB's drafted '11-'16 in the first half of the first round. Keep in mind, you don't get to CHOOSE which one you get. You might be thinking you will be getting an Andrew Luck (marginal improvement over Dalton if at all) but you could be getting Blaine Gabbert instead. Nobody KNOWS Blaine Gabbert is Blaine Gabbert until he is already drafted and starts.


Here's my question, though. What in the world possibly makes you think that if they no longer had Dalton's salary on the books that they would use that money on improving the OL? They had like $18.6m in cap space heading into the start of the season before the Burfict extension, and this is the OL they chose to put out. They had enough cap space to sign Whitworth and a mediocre center in FA. They CHOSE not to. Why would the FO magically change?

Not to mention, Dalton is currently under one of the cheapest QB contracts in the league. If your 1st round pick QB (that odds are won't be better than Dalton, and might not play Year 1) then spends the next two years playing at a cheap cost, will then want a contract of $25-30m/yr. Meanwhile Dalton will be making like $16m.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 11:58 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Sorry.  This is how things like Akili Smith happen.

Yep...lets keep a mediocre team instead of trying to improve it. Wouldn't want to revert to the 90's.

We have McCarron to try 1st. You try him and see if he can be the guy.

If not, well then you keep him and hopefully draft a QB Top 5 this year. Play McCarron on a cheap contract next year then let him walk and start the #1 pick.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 12:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Cool story. Enjoy randomly getting someone from this list:
Blake Borltes
EJ Manuel
Rober Griffin III
Ryan Tannehill
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz

That's the QB's drafted '11-'16 in the first half of the first round. Keep in mind, you don't get to CHOOSE which one you get. You might be thinking you will be getting an Andrew Luck (marginal improvement over Dalton if at all) but you could be getting Blaine Gabbert instead. Nobody KNOWS Blaine Gabbert is Blaine Gabbert until he is already drafted and starts.


Here's my question, though. What in the world possibly makes you think that if they no longer had Dalton's salary on the books that they would use that money on improving the OL? They had like $18.6m in cap space heading into the start of the season before the Burfict extension, and this is the OL they chose to put out. They had enough cap space to sign Whitworth and a mediocre center in FA. They CHOSE not to. Why would the FO magically change?

Not to mention, Dalton is currently under one of the cheapest QB contracts in the league. If your 1st round pick QB (that odds are won't be better than Dalton, and might not play Year 1) then spends the next two years playing at a cheap cost, will then want a contract of $25-30m/yr. Meanwhile Dalton will be making like $16m.

Yep. We're doomed either way to years of rebuilding.