Daltons Pocket Presence

[Socal Bengals fan]

Check out @JoeGoodberry’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/912353744876179458?s=09

This drives me nuts. Why cant Dalton just stand straight up in the pocket n look downfield rather panicking and leaving the pocket. And why is he so bad at play action. Daltons pocket presense has to be one of the worst in the league.

[upstateBengal]

This is what worries me the most, especially with how long he has been in the league. Tony and Mo said it earlier today, his presnap reads are lacking as well. He is clearly been rattled behind this line, the question.is, can he adapt and improve?

[Murdock2420]

That is really, really bad. I get that he has happy feet because of the line breaking down at time, but that was not the case on this play. The line held it together and left him a pocket to work from, yet he bailed out and just throws it away. I really hate that above all things about Andy, scrambles and just chucks the ball out of bounds. Rodgers scrambles and throws the ball at his guys and gives them a chance to make a play. Gotta at least give them a chance.

[Socal Bengals fan]

difference between a game manager n playmaker.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Check out @JoeGoodberry’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/912359771554160640?s=09

he blew it this series.

[falsestart]

Here's the thing. The leadership role on the offence was handed to Dalton last year by Whitworth. By the looks of this offence there is no leader. At what point will the other players on that side of the ball lose confidence in their leader. And if they do, what will be the result?

[Gohards]

Its called seeing ghosts.

If you have a terrible line this is going to happen. To 80% of QBs. Not everyone can have an Aaron Rodgers.

[Joelist]

This is basically a trolling thread,

[Pat5775]

Ugh... Scary. Is this something QB's recover from? I'm seeing a lot of David Carr in Andy...

For crying out loud, old man statue Carson Palmer looked great tonight dodging defenders and zipping the ball to receivers down field.

[The Caped Crusader]

I'll repost this, since everyone wants to continue to harp on this until it gets old...


My post from the Lazor OC thread:

Quote:Lack of confidence in your offensive line will do that. It's like telling a driver to get over a bridge as it's crumbling, and try not to fall down. The offensive line makes/breaks team. The same with the defensive line. Playing 8 years at left tackle, the difference is resounding. Dalton is an easy trigger because he has the ball more than anyone on the team...but nobody understands the QB clock here. Getting hit even once can rush your internal clock, make you second guess passes, etc. You could see his frustration when he was shown the picture of the play (When he missed LaFell). 


Does that mean Dalton is free from blame? Absolutely not. But this is what we are seeing. A QB not trusting of one of the most intangible parts of the offense. 

[Stonyhands]

Wow...just wow. This shit is getting really old. People need to seriously quit making excuses for this bum. He’s not won a meaningful game his entire NFL career. Yes this year he has arguably his worst o-line but let’s not pretend that anybody outside of kool-aid drinking Bengal fans ever talked about Andy Dalton as a good quarterback prior to this season starting. Andy’s entire career his long ball has sucked he’s a quick passer because he’s a one read passer and when he senses pressure he panics, always has. He has zero ability to make plays outside of the pocket and when he tucks the ball to bail on the pocket he looks very uncoordinated and is about as agile as a 400lb nose tackle. Now that Zampese is gone we can go back to solely blaming the o-line. Rewatch any playoff game and really watch any crucial play and you’ll see Andy overthrow his receiver. If Green wasn’t such an exceptional jump ball artist, route running extraordinaire, I doubt Andy would be on the sideline Sunday mornings carrying a clipboard.

[The Caped Crusader]

(09-26-2017, 03:52 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Wow...just wow.  This shit is getting really old.  People need to seriously quit making excuses for this bum.  He’s not won a meaningful game his entire NFL career.  Yes this year he has arguably his worst o-line but let’s not pretend that anybody  outside of kool-aid drinking Bengal fans ever talked about Andy Dalton as a good quarterback prior to this season starting.  Andy’s entire career his long ball has sucked he’s a quick passer because he’s a one read passer and when he senses pressure he panics, always has.  He has zero ability to make plays outside of the pocket and when he tucks the ball to bail on the pocket he looks very uncoordinated and is about as agile as a 400lb nose tackle. Now that Zampese is gone we can go back to solely blaming the o-line.  Rewatch any playoff game and really watch any crucial play and you’ll see Andy overthrow his receiver.  If Green wasn’t such an exceptional jump ball artist, route running extraordinaire, I doubt Andy would be on the sideline Sunday mornings carrying a clipboard.

You definitely seem to know what you're talking about.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-26-2017, 01:47 AM)Joelist Wrote: This is basically a trolling thread,

Watch that video in the first tweet. It's ridiculous. And so are the attacks on anyone daring to criticize Dalton. 

[*Nately120*]

If we lose to the Browns I don't care who we put in at QB anymore. You should, however, brace yourself for AJM's amazing pocket presence to take a step back when he goes from sitting on a bench to standing behind this o-line.

[*ochocincos*]

I can't recall a time I've seen Dalton step up into a pocket when pressure comes from the sides.
He has a tendency to run either right, left, or back.
This is evident by the fact Dalton could have run back into the pocket and had a clear lane to the left of the interior OL to either scramble or pass.

[McC]

(09-26-2017, 11:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I can't recall a time I've seen Dalton step up into a pocket when pressure comes from the sides.
He has a tendency to run either right, left, or back.
This is evident by the fact Dalton could have run back into the pocket and had a clear lane to the left of the interior OL to either scramble or pass.

It has to be mentioned that there is rarely a pocket to step into with the pressure Jeffro allows right up the middle.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-26-2017, 12:04 PM)McC Wrote: It has to be mentioned that there is rarely a pocket to step into with the pressure Jeffro allows right up the middle.

Yes, I understand that, but it's also not always the case. Dalton still needs to take advantage of it when it's there.

Check out this video on Dalton's pocket presence leading up to the draft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrJWBMBfWGE

Notice how in the video he never once steps up in the pocket to throw. He always stays back when he's looking to throw. Dalton also throws flat footed a lot of the time. He doesn't step into his throws.
The only times he ever moves up in the pocket are when he decides to run. And he doesn't have the same fluid running now as he did back then. He's gotten clunkier.

Now watch this pocket presence video of Drew Breees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIP5KfOVgyo

Brees is a shorter QB like Dalton but he's a master at surviving in the pocket, stepping up when pressure comes from outside, and having enough agility/mobility needed to avoid a lot of sacks.

Dalton's lack of a strong pocket presence and awareness combined with a porous OL results in constant terrible performance even when pressure isn't always there.
The Bengals need a QB with better pocket presence than Dalton.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-26-2017, 12:47 AM)upstateBengal Wrote: This is what worries me the most, especially with how long he has been in the league. Tony and Mo said it earlier today, his presnap reads are lacking as well. He is clearly been rattled behind this line, the question.is, can he adapt and improve?

He is "shell shocked", no doubt.  Hopefully Lazor can help him out some, or it's time to move on.

(09-26-2017, 01:46 AM)Gohards Wrote: Its called seeing ghosts.

If you have a terrible line this is going to happen. To 80% of QBs. Not everyone can have an Aaron Rodgers.

Exactly, his internal clock is fubar'd.  I can't blame the guy knowing #70 is "protecting" the blind side, and Blodine is in his lap most plays.  He's rattled, big time.  He's "hearing" ghosts too.  Most people that have ever been between the hash marks know what is going on.  If he can't get it together soon, it's time to move on.

(09-26-2017, 02:32 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Ugh... Scary. Is this something QB's recover from? I'm seeing a lot of David Carr in Andy...

For crying out loud, old man statue Carson Palmer looked great tonight dodging defenders and zipping the ball to receivers down field.

'Member when young man Palmer was rushing shit after bloody noses and busted elbows cause the franchise let his line go to shit?  
'Member when he got booed out of town?  Amazing what good coaching and a little protection can do.  Even for a "quitter".

(09-26-2017, 07:17 AM)Nately120 Wrote: If we lose to the Browns I don't care who we put in at QB anymore.  You should, however, brace yourself for AJM's amazing pocket presence to take a step back when he goes from sitting on a bench to standing behind this o-line.

Me either, and if AJM can lead us to the promised land, so be it.  I just don't see it happening.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-26-2017, 12:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, I understand that, but it's also not always the case. Dalton still needs to take advantage of it when it's there.

Check out this video on Dalton's pocket presence leading up to the draft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrJWBMBfWGE

Notice how in the video he never once steps up in the pocket to throw. He always stays back when he's looking to throw. Dalton also throws flat footed a lot of the time. He doesn't step into his throws.
The only times he ever moves up in the pocket are when he decides to run. And he doesn't have the same fluid running now as he did back then. He's gotten clunkier.

Now watch this pocket presence video of Drew Breees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIP5KfOVgyo

Brees is a shorter QB like Dalton but he's a master at surviving in the pocket, stepping up when pressure comes from outside, and having enough agility/mobility needed to avoid a lot of sacks.

Dalton's lack of a strong pocket presence and awareness combined with a porous OL results in constant terrible performance even when pressure isn't always there.
The Bengals need a QB with better pocket presence than Dalton.

....or a good o line to keep him settled.  Chicken/egg.  People are comparing him to HOFers. He's not a HOFer.  However, if the Ravens can win a SB with Trent ***** Dilfer, guys like Andy Dalton can too.  You don't just find a Drew Brees, Pig Pen, A Rodgers, Brady that often.  You either have one of those guys, or you build the trenches to win.  It's that simple.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-26-2017, 12:55 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: That is really, really bad. I get that he has happy feet because of the line breaking down at time, but that was not the case on this play. The line held it together and left him a pocket to work from, yet he bailed out and just throws it away. I really hate that above all things about Andy, scrambles and just chucks the ball out of bounds. Rodgers scrambles and throws the ball at his guys and gives them a chance to make a play. Gotta at least give them a chance.

Not to excuse Dalton's poor pocket presence this season, but when he does that, how many guys are actually open? One of the reasons Dalton doesn't throw as many INTs as he did his first few years is due to him not trying to force the ball into coverage. 

I'm not saying guys are NEVER getting open, but I think it's fair to ask if anybody's open when he does that. I know sometimes there are, but most times?