Daltons Pocket Presence

[McC]

(09-26-2017, 10:50 PM)Housh Wrote: The lengths people are going through to defend this man are crazy lol

We’ve had a great o line for a couple seasons and Andy still choked


People are just deadset I’m acting like Dalton is a great QB. Rodgers had just as shitty an o line and got sacked a lot and still balled out



WE NEED A BETTER QB ANDY DALTON ISNT GOOD ENOUGH GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS


AJM is literally the only reason we ALMOST won a playoff game. Dalton didn’t even factor in

AJM was one reason.  Even though he didn't play a good game, he did step up and make a big throw when he had to.  But the defense was the best part of the Bengals team that night.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I'm pretty tired of hearing about 2015 tbh. This is a what have you done for me lately kind of league and Dalton has won a total of 6 games going all the way back to the start of last season.

[The Caped Crusader]

(09-26-2017, 11:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I'm pretty tired of hearing about 2015 tbh. This is a what have you done for me lately kind of league and Dalton has won a total of 6 games going all the way back to the start of last season.

QBs themselves win games. They block, catch, run routes, make tackles, make interceptions AND coach.


I'm glad to hear all the arm chair QBs sound off here. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2017, 05:01 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: QBs themselves win games. They block, catch, run routes, make tackles, make interceptions AND coach.


I'm glad to hear all the arm chair QBs sound off here. 

Nice strawman. 

[*ochocincos*]

(09-26-2017, 05:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Do you realize that Cam has almost the exact same stat line right now as Dalton? The same guy you said you would get rid of based on his current play? AND that Dalton's career stats are a little bit better than both Cam's AND Luck's?

I'm just saying they may have the potential to be elite and better than Dalton, however, so far, Dalton has outplayed both, statistically speaking.

Cam and Luck were still #1 overall picks and considered rare talents when coming out. And both have had playoff success. They were big parts in that playoff success too, it wasn't the rest of the team carrying them.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-26-2017, 05:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: You can't discredit what Beast Mode did for Seattle.....or Flacco getting some timely PI calls his way, or miracle plays by wideouts for the NYG.  If you're going to glaze over those factors, then you have to acknowledge our miscues as a team.

We have missed our shots when other players made plays.  Gio fumbles, AJ drops a TD, to go along with Dalton's miscues against SD.  Pig Pen has a TERRIBLE Super Bowl, The Bus, and the defense bails him out.  The problem here, and this goes back to the Palmer days, is that no one seems to be able to bail out the QB when he has an off day.  That's a coaching/organization issue

I didn't discredit anything. You assumed that.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-26-2017, 05:26 PM)Wyche Wrote:
Cam Newton is not very good anymore.  Luck is hurt.  

I would consider Luck a rare talent when healthy, but he hasn't lived up to expectations either....Newton may be washed up already.  Althleticly speaking, Cam is a rare talent, but I don't think he'll cut the mustard as his legs age.  I never did.

They were still considered rare talents when entering the draft. Both have also had more postseason success than Dalton. Dalton is also playing poorly, so pointing out that Newton is too and Luck is hurt aren't really relevant points to discussing Dalton's limitations.

Just admit there are better QBs than Dalton and if the Bengals have an opportunity to get a guy that they believe can be better, they should consider it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-26-2017, 10:55 PM)thillan Wrote: I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of Dalton, but he was seriously a contender for MVP that year. Without the injury, we had a much better chance of winning that game.

Again, I am debating cutting Andy at the end of the season, but to say 2015 Andy wasn't enough is a bit of a reach to me. He was killing it.

To say AJM literally almost won the game for us is disingenuous at best.  The defense carried the team, until they didn't, and didn't really show up until after the Shazier hit on Gio....that went for Hill too.  He ran like a man possessed, and almost carried us to victory, until he didn't.

Bottom line, folks aren't really defending Dalton so much as they are trying to get it through people's THICK SKULLS that there is a culture/coaching/organizational problem here....and friggin no one short of a super clone of Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Roger Staubach, and Fran Tarkenton are going to get it done under the supervision of this shit show.

Talk about dense......

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-27-2017, 09:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't discredit anything. You assumed that.

I mean.....the conversation was about QBs carrying a team....so the assumption was at least somewhat based in logic, because those cats didn't carry a team. The only QBs I've seen do it are Brady and Rodgers.....maybe Brett Favre. I've seen QBs carry a team to the Super Bowl (think Elway, Marino) only to get clobbered because of the surrounding cast, but the two I mentioned are really the only ones I've seen completely shoulder a team. Montana was cool under fire, but damn.....Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Randy Cross, Brent Jones, Guy McIntyre, Bubba Parris, Jessie Sapolu....shit that's just 1988 and on offense! It's a myth, largely.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-27-2017, 09:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: They were still considered rare talents when entering the draft. Both have also had more postseason success than Dalton. Dalton is also playing poorly, so pointing out that Newton is too and Luck is hurt aren't really relevant points to discussing Dalton's limitations.

Just admit there are better QBs than Dalton and if the Bengals have an opportunity to get a guy that they believe can be better, they should consider it.

I already have.  I'd take Luck over Dalton, not Cam.  My opinion, doesn't mean you or I are wrong.  That's just my opinion.  I also believe that until wholesale changes are made to this organization, it doesn't really matter who is under center.  That seems to be the issue here.....you think I'm making excuses for Dalton, I'm trying to show you it doesn't really matter who is QB as long the circus is in town.

Also, there was a second part to the post you quoted....that kinda showed my opinion on Newton and Luck.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-27-2017, 09:48 AM)Wyche Wrote: I already have.  I'd take Luck over Dalton, not Cam.  My opinion, doesn't mean you or I are wrong.  That's just my opinion.  I also believe that until wholesale changes are made to this organization, it doesn't really matter who is under center.  That seems to be the issue here.....you think I'm making excuses for Dalton, I'm trying to show you it doesn't really matter who is QB as long the circus is in town.

Also, there was a second part to the post you quoted....that kinda showed my opinion on Newton and Luck.

Then let's just keep rolling with what we have and wait for the regime to change I guess lol

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-26-2017, 12:33 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Check out @JoeGoodberry’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/912353744876179458?s=09

This drives me nuts. Why cant  Dalton just stand straight up in the pocket n look downfield rather panicking and leaving the pocket.  And why is he so bad at play action.  Daltons pocket presense has to be one of the worst in the league.

The Bengals are poor at play action because no one fears their rushing attack.  I hope Lazor stays dedicated to the run, and makes some changes on the offensive line to further develop it.   Bodine had a horrible game again, and is in his fourth year.  TJ Johnson has started, what, four games and is already better?  How about we go Johnson at Center and Westerman or Redmond at RG, and bench Ced for Andre...

Not sure if it would be wise to further stunt Fisher's development, but maybe he should be the LT and Andre at RT?  If Fisher could become the LT of the future, then getting a RT in the draft wouldn't necessitate a first round selection.

I am seriously hoping we go DT or CB in the first round instead of wasting another high pick on college offensive linemen that have no clue how to block in the NFL because they are all coming out of spread attacks.  

[Aquapod770]

Hard to have pocket presence when the pocket is collapsing withing 2 seconds


I'll be fair though, most of Daltons mistakes this year have come when the line actually did hold up and he bailed to quickly. His internal clock has been significantly shortened. It's obvious he has no faith in the line.

[muskiesfan]

I feel bad for Dalton is this isn't his last season in Cincinnati. Fans have turned on him and he doesn't get a fair shake. Honestly, a lot of those fans haven't given him a fair shake since he got here.

The first 2 weeks, he tries to force some things to make plays. "He has to cut down on the turnovers. Stop forcing it!". Week 3, he protects the ball and throws it away "He has to try and make a play! Stop throwing it away!"

The first 2 weeks he wasn't targeting Green enough "You have to get the ball to your playmakers! Throw is to Green!". Week 3, Green gets 13 targets for 10 catches and it's "He didn't throw it to the other receivers! Why isn't he using all of his best in the world weapons?!?".

The guy just can't win with our fans. Even the games/seasons that he plays very well, every single pass is dissected. Since McCarron was drafted, all we hear is how McCarron is better and can make all of the throws Dalton misses (even though McCarron's scouting report says the NFL QB he is most comparable to is Andy Dalton).

For Andy's sake, I hope he can get out of the shit show that is the Bengals. I bet if he lands on a good team, even the media narrative changes on how good of a QB Dalton is.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-27-2017, 10:08 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Hard to have pocket presence when the pocket is collapsing withing 2 seconds  


I'll be fair though, most of Daltons mistakes this year have come when the line actually did hold up and he bailed to quickly. His internal clock has been significantly shortened. It's obvious he has no faith in the line.

This is 100% on the money.

[upstateBengal]

(09-26-2017, 01:31 PM)Wyche Wrote:

I actually remember that episode....perfect gif.

LOL. I think the next group of people Batman ran into was a Salvation Army band

[*PhilHos*]

(09-27-2017, 10:28 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I feel bad for Dalton is this isn't his last season in Cincinnati. Fans have turned on him and he doesn't get a fair shake. Honestly, a lot of those fans haven't given him a fair shake since he got here.

The first 2 weeks, he tries to force some things to make plays. "He has to cut down on the turnovers. Stop forcing it!". Week 3, he protects the ball and throws it away "He has to try and make a play! Stop throwing it away!"

The first 2 weeks he wasn't targeting Green enough "You have to get the ball to your playmakers! Throw is to Green!". Week 3, Green gets 13 targets for 10 catches and it's "He didn't throw it to the other receivers! Why isn't he using all of his best in the world weapons?!?".

The guy just can't win with our fans. Even the games/seasons that he plays very well, every single pass is dissected. Since McCarron was drafted, all we hear is how McCarron is better and can make all of the throws Dalton misses (even though McCarron's scouting report says the NFL QB he is most comparable to is Andy Dalton).

For Andy's sake, I hope he can get out of the shit show that is the Bengals. I bet if he lands on a good team, even the media narrative changes on how good of a QB Dalton is.

This post is so damn accurate.

I understand wanting to get an elite QB, to get the next Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady or what have you. What I don't understand is shitting on a good QB. I mean, Dalton's not great, but he's had some great games. He's also had some horribly shitty games, true, but his good games outnumber his bad ones. 

I just don't get it.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-27-2017, 10:28 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I feel bad for Dalton is this isn't his last season in Cincinnati. Fans have turned on him and he doesn't get a fair shake. Honestly, a lot of those fans haven't given him a fair shake since he got here.

The first 2 weeks, he tries to force some things to make plays. "He has to cut down on the turnovers. Stop forcing it!". Week 3, he protects the ball and throws it away "He has to try and make a play! Stop throwing it away!"

The first 2 weeks he wasn't targeting Green enough "You have to get the ball to your playmakers! Throw is to Green!". Week 3, Green gets 13 targets for 10 catches and it's "He didn't throw it to the other receivers! Why isn't he using all of his best in the world weapons?!?".

The guy just can't win with our fans. Even the games/seasons that he plays very well, every single pass is dissected. Since McCarron was drafted, all we hear is how McCarron is better and can make all of the throws Dalton misses (even though McCarron's scouting report says the NFL QB he is most comparable to is Andy Dalton).

For Andy's sake, I hope he can get out of the shit show that is the Bengals. I bet if he lands on a good team, even the media narrative changes on how good of a QB Dalton is.

this is fake news.   we have a really good defense.  good running backs n wrs.  Dalton sucks n so does the oline.  We shouldnt need elite players all over the offense for our quarterback to be good...

[*PhilHos*]

(09-27-2017, 02:47 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: this is fake news.   we have a really good defense.  good running backs n wrs.  Dalton sucks n so does the oline.  We shouldnt need elite players all over the offense for our quarterback to be good...

Dalton doesn't suck.  Besides Green, what elite players on offense have we had during Dalton's tenure? 

[fortyyearfan]

(09-26-2017, 12:33 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Check out @JoeGoodberry’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/912353744876179458?s=09

This drives me nuts. Why cant  Dalton just stand straight up in the pocket n look downfield rather panicking and leaving the pocket.  And why is he so bad at play action.  Daltons pocket presense has to be one of the worst in the league.

Here is my take on Dalton,when QBs start having kids and get the big big contract,they will start shying away from taking big hits.Please believe this,go look at other qbs that have to bale all the time.He wants to keep playing and not get hurt,its a private thing with qbs.They now have a family,a ton of money and why should they take the risk of getting killed because of stupid coaching??? believe this, qbs will start getting fast feet the longer they are in the league,especially when they do not trust the line and he certainly does not.Paul Alexander should have been fired 15 years ago.and shame on mike brown for not keeping whit and keitler.Two top players and instead he went for saving money.sucks !!!! When family and kids become so important to the qb,he will always shy away from the big hit.In fact if you watch Dalton he will pull the ball in and crimp down when he sees its obvious the line is going to allow him to get killed.He right now protects himself in stead of trying to make a play.and the dude always runs to the right and throws it away.