The big 3 is the problem

[Joelist]

While OL play is down somewhat across the league ours is in a special category of bad - which I have heard the sportscasters in several of our games note. And that special category is the constant issue of letting defenders in unblocked. Bodine, Og, Fisher and Hopkins have all done this multiple times this season, with it being a speciality of Bodine and Hopkins.

When your line constantly whiffs and lets defenders fly in untouched guess what? It makes running impossible, makes any type of rhythm or timing in passing impossible (which especially hurts us as the offense is designed around timing routes) and yes it speeds up everyone's clock. It also can be dangerous - it's only a matter of time if this continues before we have a RB or QB carted off the field.

At this point they need to bench players aggressively, run mass protect all the time and abandon the pulls and zone blocks for simple straight ahead stuff and just try to get out of the season with no major injuries. Then open the pocketbook and restock the OL.

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-10-2017, 12:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Might as well have just come out and said, "I don't know what I'm talking about" instead of trying to mask it with this bullshit.

Whatever y'all say

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 03:45 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Whatever y'all say

I wouldn't say y'all....we had a pretty decent discussion....even found some common ground.  Differing opinions make this board a good place to discuss. :andy:

[Shake n Blake]

(11-10-2017, 03:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: I wouldn't say y'all....we had a pretty decent discussion....even found some common ground.  Differing opinions make this board a good place to discuss. :andy:

This. If we all agreed, it'd be pretty dang boring.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-10-2017, 06:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This. If we all agreed, it'd be pretty dang boring.

I disagree.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-10-2017, 03:45 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Whatever y'all say

Don't get discouraged, anyone can see that you love the team.  We just happen to have some very knowledgeable fans on here, that don't mind to mix it up a bit.  Everyone's take on a situation is different, it's what makes each fan unique. 

[*Synric*]

(11-10-2017, 07:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't get discouraged, anyone can see that you love the team.  We just happen to have some very knowledgeable fans on here, that don't mind to mix it up a bit.  Everyone's take on a situation is different, it's what makes each fan unique. 

Steelers fans come off an assembly line. Last I heard they had a shortage of brains only one in fifty have one.

[Stonyhands]

(11-09-2017, 07:17 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Insults? Bitterness? Butt hurt? I'm sorry, it's hard to take anything serious, including an intellectual debate when a grown adult uses the word, 'butt hurt'. I feel like we are on a playground again.

I don't see any of that. Actually everything was fine until you made a remark on my post, the same post that stated how unoriginal, repetitive and unnecessary this was.

If you can actually breakdown why AJ McCarron is a better QB than Andy Dalton, I'd happily listen. Unfortunately, besides his footwork and accuracy, I haven't really seen that. The same team that Dalton had led to the playoffs, with an MVP caliber performance, McCarron came in and played...average? Furthermore, draft analysis and breakdowns say he has the same intangibles, skill level and familiarity of Andy Dalton.







Dalton's Draft Profile




Should be noted that Dalton didn't play behind an all team Collegiate line.


I know. I'm really, really butt hurt with all these facts and breakdowns, some I'm sure you didn't even read because your decision was made up with a monotonous post.

If I’ve learned anything from draft experts on QBs, it is that they are full of crap. It’s hard to tell who is going to do what really because at the collegiate level there’s a huge parity in talent and so many different factors play into how successful QBs are going to be moving to the NFL after being good in college. Plus it’s hard to not laugh when reading a scouting report about Dalton how poised and relaxed Dalton is in the pocket when I see him panicking and bailing early nearly ever dropback.

Did AJ face much tougher defenses? Sure. He also had a lot of talent surrounding him. But that doesn’t tell you whether or not he would have or wouldn’t have lit up defenses if he was playing for TCU. Plus AJ played well enough to be the starter that won at the highest level in college football. Maybe he wasn’t asked to do much but he still had way better statistics in college than did Andy.

When Bledsoe went down I don’t remember Brady coming in and absolutely lighting it up but he did enough to win games.

Well so did AJ when asked to come in and play. He still had to deal with the same Lewis/Bengals antics that’s plagued any other QB who has taken a snap under Lewis. But for all intents and purposes he had us in the best position to win our first playoff game in two decades. Andy had his opportunities and his 2 TD and 6 ints are what he has to show for it. AJ darn near beat Denver, the eventual Suoerbowl Champs, whose defense beat Brady in regulation and absolutely destroyed Cam Newton.

This season is lost. Why not see what we have in McCarron? He’s said all the right things and he’s been a team player. As it stands we look to lose him and get nothing. He could go in and light it up. In that scenario we tag him or resign him and trade Dalton or maybe he does ok or bad and we finally answer that question.

[RunKijanaRun]

(11-09-2017, 05:28 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Sorry your feelings are hurt ,I'm sure the Dalton army will swarm in by tomorrow and say I'm a dumb ass, and to jump ship if I don't like Dalton and it's all o line cause he only has .5 seconds to release,and everything will be all better and Superbowl bound when we spend a couple years on the o line drafting absolute studs lol

You’re not wrong. Dalton stinks. FAR from the only problem, but he’s definitely one of them.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-10-2017, 08:16 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: If I’ve learned anything from draft experts on QBs, it is that they are full of crap.  It’s hard to tell who is going to do what really because at the collegiate level there’s a huge parity in talent and so many different factors play into how successful QBs are going to be moving to the NFL after being good in college.  Plus it’s hard to not laugh when reading a scouting report about Dalton how poised and relaxed Dalton is in the pocket when I see him panicking and bailing early nearly ever dropback.  

Did AJ face much tougher defenses?  Sure.  He also had a lot of talent surrounding him.  But that doesn’t tell you whether or not he would have or wouldn’t have lit up defenses if he was playing for TCU.  Plus AJ played well enough to be the starter that won at the highest level in college football.  Maybe he wasn’t asked to do much but he still had way better statistics in college than did Andy.  

When Bledsoe went down I don’t remember Brady coming in and absolutely lighting it up but he did enough to win games.  

Well so did AJ when asked to come in and play.  He still had to deal with the same Lewis/Bengals antics that’s plagued any other QB who has taken a snap under Lewis.  But for all intents and purposes he had us in the best position to win our first playoff game in two decades.  Andy had his opportunities and his 2 TD and 6 ints are what he has to show for it.  AJ darn near beat Denver, the eventual Suoerbowl Champs, whose defense beat Brady in regulation and absolutely destroyed Cam Newton.  

This season is lost.  Why not see what we have in McCarron?  He’s said all the right things and he’s been a team player.  As it stands we look to lose him and get nothing.  He could go in and light it up.  In that scenario we tag him or resign him and trade Dalton or maybe he does ok or bad and we finally answer that question.

Meh.....McCarron turned it over in the playoffs and struggled too....I find it more of a whole team issue versus 3 players.

[*Nately120*]

(11-10-2017, 08:16 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: This season is lost.  Why not see what we have in McCarron?  He’s said all the right things and he’s been a team player.  As it stands we look to lose him and get nothing.  He could go in and light it up.  In that scenario we tag him or resign him and trade Dalton or maybe he does ok or bad and we finally answer that question.

Dalton could "light it up" this season, too.  Hell, I'd wager Dalton, who has actually lit it up before has more of a chance of lighting it up in 2017 than McCarron does.  Furthermore, our o-line is so bad and our WRs that aren't AJ Green are so awful that we could play McCarron the rest of the year and his supporters would insist that we can't judge him based on his performance in such a hopeless situation.

Sort of the way we clamored for Mixon to be the feature back and now that he is and he's putting up numbers that make Trent Richardson look like Jim Brown we aren't pulling the plug on him.  Then again, the season is lost and we know Mixon will be here in 2018 so why not spend the rest of the season putting no-name RB's on the field and seeing if one can be the next Arian Foster?

I must say though if this organization puts Dalton in such a hopeless situation and then benches him because "the season is lost" we may as well just let him walk out the door.  That's some lowdown dirty stuff there.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-10-2017, 07:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree.

Way to make the boards terrible, Phil. 

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-10-2017, 08:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Dalton could "light it up" this season, too.  Hell, I'd wager Dalton, who has actually lit it up before has more of a chance of lighting it up in 2017 than McCarron does.  Furthermore, our o-line is so bad and our WRs that aren't AJ Green are so awful that we could play McCarron the rest of the year and his supporters would insist that we can't judge him based on his performance in such a hopeless situation.

Sort of the way we clamored for Mixon to be the feature back and now that he is and he's putting up numbers that make Trent Richardson look like Jim Brown we aren't pulling the plug on him.  Then again, the season is lost and we know Mixon will be here in 2018 so why not spend the rest of the season putting no-name RB's on the field and seeing if one can be the next Arian Foster?

I must say though if this organization puts Dalton in such a hopeless situation and then benches him because "the season is lost" we may as well just let him walk out the door.  That's some lowdown dirty stuff there.

Difference is,I shouldn't even have to say it but mixon is a rook and gio and hill aren't having any success behind our run blocking. The season isnt really lost,it just feels tgat way because we know marvin will not do the right things,and in my opinion dalton hasnt been good enough either . 

In 2015 I got off his back because he came in with more passion and had improved his game under house. I think he even had a pump fake sometimes. But... 2016 he went back to his usual self,hue wasn't around and he didn't have his 2nd and 3rd receivers he was so familiar with plus key injuries did us in later.

[Stonyhands]

(11-10-2017, 08:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Dalton could "light it up" this season, too.  Hell, I'd wager Dalton, who has actually lit it up before has more of a chance of lighting it up in 2017 than McCarron does.  Furthermore, our o-line is so bad and our WRs that aren't AJ Green are so awful that we could play McCarron the rest of the year and his supporters would insist that we can't judge him based on his performance in such a hopeless situation.

Sort of the way we clamored for Mixon to be the feature back and now that he is and he's putting up numbers that make Trent Richardson look like Jim Brown we aren't pulling the plug on him.  Then again, the season is lost and we know Mixon will be here in 2018 so why not spend the rest of the season putting no-name RB's on the field and seeing if one can be the next Arian Foster?

I must say though if this organization puts Dalton in such a hopeless situation and then benches him because "the season is lost" we may as well just let him walk out the door.  That's some lowdown dirty stuff there.

I’m sorry I’m not going to start feeling sorry for Dalton. Maybe this team has issues evaluating talent but it’s not for lack of trying. They’ve drafted talent early and have put a lot of pieces in place for Andy to succeed and he just hasn’t been able to win a playoff game. He’s been given ample chances and in big games he just doesn’t play big. He’s really only had a Superbad offensive line one year and it’s only exasperated his weaknesses. This team has a history of sticking with players that can’t get the job done...why does the QB get a pass from so many Bengals fans? I don’t get it.

I honestly have never liked the guy. I feel like he came in and they built a skilled offense around him. You take any part of that offense away and boom our offense stalls. It’s a new excuse year after year after year. Yet Andy misses the same throws and has the same tendencies he’s had since day 1. Seriously what aspect of his game can anyone seriously point to and say he’s improved from his rookie year? Every QB deals with adversity as nobody plays year in and year out with no pressure and talented skilled position teammates. Yes us Dalton haters always use guys like Brady and Rodgers as examples of players who overcome and still play great. We get laughed at because we’re told we’re comparing our QB with arguably the best QB to ever play. What’s wrong with wanting that? What’s wrong with wanting us to have a QB that makes everybody around him better no matter the circumstances. We can all agree Andy isn’t that guy. And we are not making progress to getting that guy if we are sitting around making excuses for Andy and trying to put an all-pro cast around Andy that can peak at the same time while staying healthy.

QBs like Andy CAN win Championships but it takes a one in twenty seasons type defense that just dominates and a genius of a coach and that’s just not going to happen here.

[bengalsfansince93]

(11-09-2017, 04:12 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Ownership , Coaching , and yeah QB also . Im especially frustrated with Coaching and Qb i want them both to just go away. I know Dalton has a army of die hard supporters who will fight to the death for him. But i cant stand his inaccuracy any longer. That one throw he missed up the sidelines to Aj is not a hard throw for a NFL qb to make. If you launch that out of bounds ,I have no hope for you. Every week it's a hand full of throws you can just check mark down that will be overthrown . These are the same throws he came in with in preseason his rookie year,his accuracy is just that inconsistent and bad for your starter ,I don't care what stats people bring up. I see it with my own eyes each game. Also watch the all 22 with goodberry and not only accuracy but he never climbs the pocket when it's available.

With this said , Marvin has been married to Dalton since he drafted him. He's going to go down with Dalton. The coach is in control of who plays on the roster,and I think Marvin has more control then people think. Everything he does is with familiararity . He won't even make a trade unless it's with one of his buddies like Hue Jackson. I do not trust ANYTHING Marvin Lewis says either. He's lied and been wrong so much in his tenure it's like he's a compulsive liar. I don't trust any talent judgement the man does,on Ross , O line, or even kicker. He puts Dre Kirkpatrick on a speed guy when we have a faster cornerback on the bench. He doesn't use Evans at all , he trots MJ back out on defensive end and he didn't get any pressure,I think Lawson got 16 snaps.

Judging the o line talent , he's the coach he could replace Bodine with someone but he won't, he could switch things up some how some way. He's too stubborn and complacent. The best team we ever had,we had a elite qb and a great o line with a elite offense. And Marvin isn't a offense mind or coach so I'm thinking that was the coaching around him and talent on the team. Similar where he had all the defensive talent in Baltimore where he ran into success.

It's going to have to start with Marvin leaving for us to really have a chance at winning,I know that's depressing because we are at like midseason . There's still 8 more games ,two months to go to watch the bafoonery. And just like the Marvins way he will change some things up at the last minute to give fans false hope at the end of the season kind of like 2010 and last year. Then look to the draft where people actually get excited about the first round pick that won't play. No free agents worth a damn either.

Furthermore like Dave Lapham said, the jags had 3/5 o lineman that were undrafted free agents,and same goes for Pitt. And if I'm not mistaken the Pats have done that too. I always hear "we got to draft o lineman 1st ,2nd and 3rd round to make things right. Not really!! You need coaches to teach proper technique ,and judge talent correctly and play the right guys and be willing to change things up . You think Marvin and his coaches would do that? No he goes with familiar guys and vets most of the time. Just like the straight incompetence and laziness of going out to get Winston again. You mean there's nobody else out there that's even on the same level as Winston? I doubt it and he looked bad in preseason.

I'm really wanting off this ride with Marvin but I just havnt done it yet. I know for sure I will not put my time into the Bengals with Marvin again next year.

P.s I hope McCarron does get a look this year ,I'm just not a big fan of Dalton or believer. And that's my reason. I think McCarron would be more accurate on throws and more of a leader with better footwork. Not saying he is the answer, I'd actually like to go to the draft this year and just trade Dalton for what you can get.id throw a party to get rid of both him and lewis.

(11-09-2017, 05:38 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Yeah all the insults and bitterness= butthurt over Dalton. The usual.

Both of these are accurate. Well done!! 

[bengalsfansince93]

(11-09-2017, 07:17 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Insults? Bitterness? Butt hurt? I'm sorry, it's hard to take anything serious, including an intellectual debate when a grown adult uses the word, 'butt hurt'. I feel like we are on a playground again.

I don't see any of that. Actually everything was fine until you made a remark on my post, the same post that stated how unoriginal, repetitive and unnecessary this was.

If you can actually breakdown why AJ McCarron is a better QB than Andy Dalton, I'd happily listen. Unfortunately, besides his footwork and accuracy, I haven't really seen that. The same team that Dalton had led to the playoffs, with an MVP caliber performance, McCarron came in and played...average? Furthermore, draft analysis and breakdowns say he has the same intangibles, skill level and familiarity of Andy Dalton.







Dalton's Draft Profile




Should be noted that Dalton didn't play behind an all team Collegiate line.


I know. I'm really, really butt hurt with all these facts and breakdowns, some I'm sure you didn't even read because your decision was made up with a monotonous post.

do you watch the games or do you and Shake just look at stats?  Really starting to wonder?  Or its reached the point where you've defended so long AD  that you'll come up with whatever you can to defend AD.  

[bengalsfansince93]

(11-09-2017, 10:51 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We could put Tom Brady behind the Cincinnati offensive line and he would look terrible.

This is where your so wrong.  Ever notice you never hear about New England having Oline issues that's because Tom Brady is really good and his ability masks it.  Every year the excuses change for Dalton. Not hearing many using Lazor as an excuse even though the offense is still struggling.  Guess Dalton supporters used zampese so much that it just wouldn't look right . Before it was oline and Zampese now its just the oline.  You guys are a joke sorry but its ridiculous.

[bengalsfansince93]

(11-09-2017, 12:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ownership here is Management and they are responsible for correcting problems 2 and 3.

yea ownership throws the ball out of bounds and 3 feet over receivers heads.

[Mer]

Why do people bring up pre draft analysis? Dalton is a 6+ year vet. Is it possible he's different now? Better or worse?

[*Nately120*]

(11-10-2017, 09:28 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: yea ownership throws the ball out of bounds and 3 feet over receivers heads.

Mike Brown overthrows receivers and Andy Dalton refuses to hire NFL-caliber coaches and/or a GM and we all wear hats on our feet and hamburgers eat people.