The big 3 is the problem

[bengalsfansince93]

(11-10-2017, 11:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Mike Brown overthrows receivers and Andy Dalton refuses to hire NFL-caliber coaches and/or a GM and we all wear hats on our feet and hamburgers eat people.

That was good!

[THE PISTONS]

(11-10-2017, 09:28 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: yea ownership throws the ball out of bounds and 3 feet over receivers heads.

Yeah...ownership is great. They let the 2 best players on a struggling offensive line go in free agency with no replacement. And they had some $21 million in cap space.

Owner$ship

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-10-2017, 09:25 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: This is where your so wrong.  Ever notice you never hear about New England having Oline issues that's because Tom Brady is really good and his ability masks it.  Every year the excuses change for Dalton. Not hearing many using Lazor as an excuse even though the offense is still struggling.  Guess Dalton supporters used zampese so much that it just wouldn't look right . Before it was oline and Zampese now its just the oline.  You guys are a joke sorry but its ridiculous.

What’s your “fix” for the Cincinnati offense then?

[The Caped Crusader]

(11-10-2017, 09:14 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: Both of these are accurate. Well done!! 

You and the OP weirdly respond, act and even type in the same way...also, the only person to agree with him...just saying.

(11-10-2017, 09:18 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: do you watch the games or do you and Shake just look at stats?  Really starting to wonder?  Or its reached the point where you've defended so long AD  that you'll come up with whatever you can to defend AD.  

You've never read my post(s) before then. I've time and time again provided in depth analysis from my years of playing, outside of statistics but with actual Football knowledge. No, I've never, EVER claimed to be something I wasn't, and I don't always believe stats tell the true story. Rarely do I use them, and in fact, I haven't really used a single stat in this thread, outside of using several other analysis thoughts on the players...because at the end of the day, isn't that what we are doing now!?

(11-10-2017, 10:07 PM)Mer Wrote: Why do people bring up pre draft analysis? Dalton is a 6+ year vet. Is it possible he's different now? Better or worse?

You're 100% correct. Players grow, adapt and change. That being said, I don't see a single post that I've done in this thread where I've sighted a draft analysis that wasn't incorrect to what we are seeing now. Strengths/weaknesses have aligned to what we have seen from these QBs.

Evaluating players is entirely subjective. 

(11-11-2017, 12:40 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: What’s your “fix” for the Cincinnati offense then?

He seems to be spearheading the idea with AJM. Which, I don't believe to be the fix.

As I've stated over, over and over, to the boy I've been blue in the face. I've received dozens of rep points for simply stating that games are WON and LOSS in the trenches. Football is made with the fat guys up front, both sides of the ball dictate the game going forward. If you have 5 seconds to pass the ball. You're going to win football games. If you can create a crease, and get 5 to 8 yards a play, you're going to win games. IF you can rush four, successfully, you're going to win football games. Period. Games are won and loss with line play (I'll throw in Houston's previous loss, when they traded away a pro bowl tackle, who was replaced...who eventually gave up a strip sack).


When you have a team with THREE pretty good to above average running backs, and you can't even muster more than 50 yards on a team that is DEAD LAST in run defense...You have issues. Pointing at Dalton, and blaming him is the short sighted issue. 

[Joelist]

This nonsense makes me wonder if one of the anti-Andy posters used to be Hammerthis on the old boards...

And unfortunately, those posters are in the process of ruining this forum like they did the old one by spamming their stuff all over the place - it made the old forum almost unreadable. Hopefully it is not allowed to do so here.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-10-2017, 09:18 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: do you watch the games or do you and Shake just look at stats?  Really starting to wonder?  Or its reached the point where you've defended so long AD  that you'll come up with whatever you can to defend AD.  

Stats get posted because they're facts. Facts that often refute biased and subjective opinions of what people claim to see. Frankly, people are often full of crap or hold Dalton to unrealistic standards based on Madden or watching ESPN highlights of Rodgers and Brady.

Just for example, people often say Dalton sucks throwing deep. If you watch other non-Bengals games and focus on QB play, you'll see TONS of missed deep balls. It's a low percentage play...otherwise, teams would throw deep 10-20 times every game. 

If you look at deep ball percentages, they're typically around 33% give or take. A couple QBs per year might get as high as 50%...which is exceptional. Some might fall as low as say 17%. Check out Big Ben's deep ball % the last 2 years if you want a laugh.

Dalton is typically middle of the pack in deep ball % and rating, yet some think he's awful because he doesn't hit 60% of them, or some of them go out of bounds...as if the incompletion is somehow worse for it.

If you watch other QBs, they miss deep just as badly. Overthrowing or underthrowing. Missing out of bounds. Throwing picks. It's not an Andy thing...It's a deep ball thing. It's as if anti-Andy guys don't see other good QBs make bad throws, or notice how often it happens.

So yeah, it's not that pro-Andy guys think he's perfect. We see the bad throws. We just realize that good QBs can and do make bad throws. We also realize that Andy is surrounded by shit right now, so it's hard to judge him...not that he's having a terrible season.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-11-2017, 12:27 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: That was good!

You familiar with Dante Scarnecchia?

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-11-2017, 02:24 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Stats get posted because they're facts. Facts that often refute biased and subjective opinions of what people claim to see. Frankly, people are often full of crap or hold Dalton to unrealistic standards based on Madden or watching ESPN highlights of Rodgers and Brady.

Just for example, people often say Dalton sucks throwing deep. If you watch other non-Bengals games and focus on QB play, you'll see TONS of missed deep balls. It's a low percentage play...otherwise, teams would throw deep 10-20 times every game. 

If you look at deep ball percentages, they're typically around 33% give or take. A couple QBs per year might get as high as 50%...which is exceptional. Some might fall as low as say 17%. Check out Big Ben's deep ball % this year if you want a laugh.

Dalton is typically middle of the pack in deep ball % and rating, yet some think he's awful because he doesn't hit 60% of them, or some of them go out of bounds...as if the incompletion is somehow worse for it.

If you watch other QBs, they miss deep just as badly. Overthrowing or underthrowing. Missing out of bounds. Throwing picks. It's not an Andy thing...It's a deep ball thing. It's as if anti-Andy guys don't see other good QBs make bad throws, or notice how often it happens.

So yeah, it's not that pro-Andy guys think he's perfect. We see the bad throws. We just realize that good QBs can and do make bad throws. We also realize that Andy is surrounded by shit right now, so it's hard to judge him...not that he's having a terrible season.

I'm not big on stats,because in football it doesn't tell the whole story. When you are a starter in the national football league you will accumulate some stats over time . I looked up some I think last year where,Tony Romo and Ryan tannahill and some others had nice stat years. But it doesn't tell the whole story. Here's one I looked up being funny in my group ,because I have people in my group that's die hard Dalton supporters and they always bring up the STATS. Here's one this year Alex Smith is #1 in qb rating ahead of #2 tom Brady. Now who would you bet on kc vs the pats? I would think Brady would be the favorite  Alex Smith has 0 rings. I looked up 2013 qb rating because 2013 was a good year for us and Dalton during the regular season. Josh MCCOWN was #1 Lol Jay Cutler was #4 , Dalton was like #19. Yes I would say Dalton is better then those two,but still isn't good enough to really win. Nick foles was on that list in the top ten and I don't even think he's starting anymore. 

Now that's just qb rating because I do hear qb rating a lot when it comes to Dalton after his decent games that turn into wins. Now if you want to get into passing yards and attempts , that gets more complicated, because it can just be the scheme and the play calling,or if your team is down and have to come back . Or you can pick up garbage time stats .it all plays together. This is why I'm usually not a stat person. But people go by it like it's the bible of sports. Baseball is more of a stat line game then football to me with the batting averages. 

Furthermore about Daltons deep ball ,has he connected deep balls in his time of course. But there is times he sucks at it like this season just last game he sailed,not just one,but they tried 3 times going deep,all 3 were overthrown. Beginning of the season he missed Cody core twice in the same game ,then they took Cody core out for Daltons short comings. 

Do I think McCarron is the answer , I don't know I'm not saying he is for sure he has a slower release and holds the ball longer then Dalton and he's better at footwork and scanning but he don't throw as fast as Andy and when I watched him last time he plays it to safe sometimes and holds it. Also not as mobile as Andy. I would like to see him 2-3 games and how things would look with this certain team compared to Andy. 

Like I said to you before, Andy's strengths are fast get the ball out quick passes ,predetermined throws like the greenbay game they came out with that game plan. But every oc we have had asks him to do his weakness and that's drop back and scan and be a true pocket passer. The past two games they put him under center and are using playaction and wanting him to sit back and make reads. This isn't his strong suit I'm telling you. That's more aj McCarron game.plus the accuracy on the long ball has not been there for Dalton this year. His accuracy has been pretty poor this year.

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-11-2017, 01:48 AM)Joelist Wrote: This nonsense makes me wonder if one of the anti-Andy posters used to be Hammerthis on the old boards...

And unfortunately, those posters are in the process of ruining this forum like they did the old one by spamming their stuff all over the place - it made the old forum almost unreadable. Hopefully it is not allowed to do so here.

Because im not posting roses and sunshine im ruining the boards lol you are a joke dude. You hear bad about andy and it gets you so mad doesnt it. Well guess what never winning a playoff game gets me mad.

[bengalsturntup5532]

(11-11-2017, 01:21 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: You and the OP weirdly respond, act and even type in the same way...also, the only person to agree with him...just saying.


You've never read my post(s) before then. I've time and time again provided in depth analysis from my years of playing, outside of statistics but with actual Football knowledge. No, I've never, EVER claimed to be something I wasn't, and I don't always believe stats tell the true story. Rarely do I use them, and in fact, I haven't really used a single stat in this thread, outside of using several other analysis thoughts on the players...because at the end of the day, isn't that what we are doing now!?


You're 100% correct. Players grow, adapt and change. That being said, I don't see a single post that I've done in this thread where I've sighted a draft analysis that wasn't incorrect to what we are seeing now. Strengths/weaknesses have aligned to what we have seen from these QBs.

Evaluating players is entirely subjective. 


He seems to be spearheading the idea with AJM. Which, I don't believe to be the fix.

As I've stated over, over and over, to the boy I've been blue in the face. I've received dozens of rep points for simply stating that games are WON and LOSS in the trenches. Football is made with the fat guys up front, both sides of the ball dictate the game going forward. If you have 5 seconds to pass the ball. You're going to win football games. If you can create a crease, and get 5 to 8 yards a play, you're going to win games. IF you can rush four, successfully, you're going to win football games. Period. Games are won and loss with line play (I'll throw in Houston's previous loss, when they traded away a pro bowl tackle, who was replaced...who eventually gave up a strip sack).


When you have a team with THREE pretty good to above average running backs, and you can't even muster more than 50 yards on a team that is DEAD LAST in run defense...You have issues. Pointing at Dalton, and blaming him is the short sighted issue. 

Heres the thing, i never posted saying it's squarely on Dalton. But I have included him as part of the problem. With a better qb I think we have more wins . I just hate seeing the dude overthrow and make bad passes too many times it's not normal or a good thing. You got to give your receiver a chance to make a play,and he DOESN'T MOST THE TIME. If you think he does then you clearly are not watching or your just a HUGE DALTON PERSON. Maybe you took a pic with the guy and had a convo with him and that's why you support the guy so much, is he a good guy personally yeah ,I like Andy the person,but the guy to GRT us far,I don't see it,even if you try to get a all beast line,which I doubt this organization would do. 

Anyways it's going to have to start with Marvin leaving,because he don't have the balls to bench Andy.  The new coach would have to want to move on. Unless Dalton got hurt then the backup would play. But Dalton only gets hurt when top seed is on the line ,seemed fixed but that's another subject.

One more thing, Dalton runs out of clean pockets ever since he got here so he will never sit back there and wait for someone to get open. He leaves the pocket if it's past his time limit in his head,he's not good at extending plays at all.

[CanadianBengal]

(11-09-2017, 06:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: The whole accuracy comment and how Joe Goodberry is the end all be all on this and the fact you said you don't care about stats really throws me off. I'm guessing completion percentage means nothing. I know this is a waste of my time, but here we go.

Andy Dalton career completion percentage - 62.7%. Using only 2011-2017 here are some other QBs (no, I didn't look up everyone. I just tried to keep it recent)

Andrew Luck - 59.2%
Cam Newton - 58.8%
Joe Flacco - 61.5%
Eli Manning - 61.4%
Jameis Winston - 60.0%
Blake Bortles - 58.9%
Carson Wentz - 61.8%
Derek Carr - 61.5%
Alex Smith - 62.3%
Matthew Stafford - 61.5%
Jared Goff - 57.7%
Carson Palmer - 62%
Marcus Mariota - 62%
Brian Hoyer - 59.3%
DeShone Kizer - 52.1%
CJ Beathard - 50.9%
Trevor Siemian - 60.2%
Brock Osweiler - 59.4%
Jacoby Brissett - 61.2%
Josh McCown - 62.6%
Jay Cutler - 62.6%

While I agree completion percentage obviously doesn't equal top QB. I'm just saying of these guys are at or below Dalton. If Dalton is inaccurate because of your eye test and Goodberry's word, does that make all of this other QBs inaccurate as well? I just want to see if this is strictly a Dalton thing or if we're going to apply it to everyone.

That's actually a pretty sad looking QB list. Most of whom are replaceable on their current teams. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-09-2017, 05:21 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Oh, another thread talking about 'issues' but really is a thread disguised so we can ***** about Dalton some more.

No doubt. We need to cut back on all these "Andy Hate" threads so we have more room for threads that provide a critical analysis of the oline and HC.

[*Synric*]

Andy is accurate the numbers say so. Andy has a decent deep ball the numbers say so. Andy has one of the quickest releases in the NFL the numbers say so. Andy Dalton is a proven winner the numbers says so...


Andy Dalton is not a closer....the numbers say so...

[BengalsRocker]

(11-09-2017, 04:12 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Ownership , Coaching , and yeah QB also . Im especially frustrated with Coaching and Qb i want them both to just go away.

Judging the o line talent , he's the coach he could replace Bodine with someone but he won't, he could switch things up some how some way.

Furthermore like Dave Lapham said, the jags had 3/5 o lineman that were undrafted free agents,and same goes for Pitt. And if I'm not mistaken the Pats have done that too. I always hear "we got to draft o lineman 1st ,2nd and 3rd round to make things right. Not really!! You need coaches to teach proper technique ,and judge talent correctly and play the right guys and be willing to change things up .

I see that you're more frustrated by the Coach and the QB.  You really know who is the major one of the 3.

For some reason you feel that those are changeable variables, and that's because Mike Brown is the owner who won't go away.

Your later statement about the O-Line and coaching is all you really need to know.

Alexander is not only the O-Line coach but also the assistant head coach.

This guy was here through the most miserable times and continues to have terrible run blocking year in and out.

This tells me that adjustable variables are thrown in the trash.

I think Marvin's hands are tied for the most part.  He knows it.  He takes the money and tows the company line.

As long as Brown keeps Paul Alexander in his position(with added power), he'll pick whatever line talent and coach them as he pleases.

The only thing YOU personally can hang any hope on is that Mike let's these unsigned coaches on the staff to walk.

If Mike ever wanted to step away this would be his best chance.

Let Katie and others hire personnel of their choice and decide what players to keep or move.

Allow them to put their own thumb print on the team.

Of course from what we've seen, this seems like pure fiction, but for those of you who despise current coaching and players this is about the only thing you've got.

[BengalsRocker]

I love when names like Brady and Rodgers get thrown in convo involving Dalton's shortcomings.

Hell even Big Ben doesn't deserve that.

Those two are Hall of Fame and probably the best who've played in many many years.

Maybe toss Drew Brees in there too.

Out of those three maybe Rodgers could overcome a really bad line for a little while.

That's because he's actually had to try and do it with a injury riddled one before.

He's go mobility, vision, and great knowledge of the game.

We should just go right out and pick up or just draft one of the best to play the game.

Easy peasy.

Oh wait... nevermind... we have McCarron!! Hurray!!

[*bfine32*]

(11-09-2017, 10:51 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We could put Tom Brady behind the Cincinnati offensive line and he would look terrible.

You could put Tom Brady behind a High School offensive line and he would not look terrible. 

The above is a comparison that has been made far too many times in this forum. There are a good many current QBs that would do just fine behind this oline. Russell Wilson has played behind terrible protection and no rushing game and is having a fine season. Aaron Rodgers was getting killed (got killed) and had a WR as a RB. Kirk Cousins has no oline or WRs and his RB is someone called Fat Rob. Hell even Josh McCown with absolutely nothing in NYJ currently has a passer rating in the high 90s.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-11-2017, 06:15 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: 1. I'm not big on stats,because in football it doesn't tell the whole story. 2. When you are a starter in the national football league you will accumulate some stats over time . 3. I looked up some I think last year where,Tony Romo and Ryan tannahill and some others had nice stat years. But it doesn't tell the whole story. Here's one I looked up being funny in my group ,because I have people in my group that's die hard Dalton supporters and they always bring up the STATS. 4. Here's one this year Alex Smith is #1 in qb rating ahead of #2 tom Brady. 5.  Now who would you bet on kc vs the pats? I would think Brady would be the favorite  Alex Smith has 0 rings. 6. I looked up 2013 qb rating because 2013 was a good year for us and Dalton during the regular season. Josh MCCOWN was #1 Lol Jay Cutler was #4 , Dalton was like #19. Yes I would say Dalton is better then those two,but still isn't good enough to really win. Nick foles was on that list in the top ten and I don't even think he's starting anymore. 

7. Now that's just qb rating because I do hear qb rating a lot when it comes to Dalton after his decent games that turn into wins. Now if you want to get into passing yards and attempts , that gets more complicated, because it can just be the scheme and the play calling,or if your team is down and have to come back . Or you can pick up garbage time stats .it all plays together. This is why I'm usually not a stat person. But people go by it like it's the bible of sports. Baseball is more of a stat line game then football to me with the batting averages. 

8. Furthermore about Daltons deep ball ,has he connected deep balls in his time of course. But there is times he sucks at it like this season just last game he sailed,not just one,but they tried 3 times going deep,all 3 were overthrown. Beginning of the season he missed Cody core twice in the same game ,then they took Cody core out for Daltons short comings. 

9. Do I think McCarron is the answer , I don't know I'm not saying he is for sure he has a slower release and holds the ball longer then Dalton and he's better at footwork and scanning but he don't throw as fast as Andy and when I watched him last time he plays it to safe sometimes and holds it. Also not as mobile as Andy. I would like to see him 2-3 games and how things would look with this certain team compared to Andy. 

Like I said to you before, Andy's strengths are fast get the ball out quick passes ,predetermined throws like the greenbay game they came out with that game plan. But every oc we have had asks him to do his weakness and that's drop back and scan and be a true pocket passer. The past two games they put him under center and are using playaction and wanting him to sit back and make reads. This isn't his strong suit I'm telling you. That's more aj McCarron game.plus the accuracy on the long ball has not been there for Dalton this year. His accuracy has been pretty poor this year.

1. You're right, they don't. Biased opinions of what we saw don't tell the whole story either. We all have a bias, whether we want to admit it or not. Stats are subjective. Some "see" stuff that just isn't happening.

2. Career stats? Sure. Season stats? No. A good season is a good season. Efficiency stats aren't improved by playing a long time, either.

3. Do you look at actual performance or reputation? It seems reputation has a heavy influence on you. Tannehill and especially Romo had some great seasons.

4. Alex Smith is having a better season than Tom Brady. I'd take Smith over Brady in 2017. Just this year. Smith is playing lights out. Again, seems you're only looking at reputations (i.e. Smith sucks and Brady is the awesomest QB evah).

5. The Chiefs beat the Patriots 42-27 in Foxboro this year. Primarily due to the play of Alex Smith.

6. Nick Foles led the league in passer rating in 2013, not McCown. Dalton was 15th, not 19th. Cutler finished 13th, not 4th. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2013
Passer rating isn't the only stat you can look at though. Dalton had 4300 yards and 33 TD's that year, setting franchise records in both categories. I'm not sure what your point is with Nick Foles not starting anymore. He was a flash in the pan. It happens all the time. This doesn't make his 2013 season any less fantastic. Nor is it a good comparison for Dalton, who has proven to have staying power in this league.

7. Scheme and playcalling is always subjective, but I doubt many would claim Dalton has had great coaching through his career. He also hasn't had the benefit of garbage-time stat padding, as he's (mostly) been on the winning end. Plus Marv is uber-conservative with a lead, which actually hurts Dalton's stats. Look...nobody is claiming stats are a flawless way of judging a player, but I'll take them over someone's opinion...especially when Dalton has been in the league for 7 years. Stats become more of a concrete way to judge a career as the years pile up.

Foles having a fluke year is one thing...if he had played 7 years with good/great stats, no one would be laughing.

8. Dalton is having a bit of a down year with the deep ball. I acknowledge that. People have been ripping Dalton's deep ball since the beginning though. People heard some say his arm was weak, and it all snowballed from there. Now it's all reputation. You'd think Big Ben with his big arm would have better deep ball stats...right?

Andy since 2012 (when ESPN started tracking these stats) on throws over 30 yards (through the air):

43/125 (34.4%)
16 TDs to 6 INTs
2089 yards
102.4 rating

Ben since 2012 on the same throws:

45/171 (26.3%)
20 TDs to 13 INTs
2156 yards
86.5 rating

9. We'll just have to disagree. What I saw of McCarron, he wasn't scanning the field any more than Dalton. If you watch these highlights, he was always throwing to the first guy he looked at:





That's been our offense. Read the defense pre-snap and figure out the best option then, rather than scanning the field after snap. Scanning only happens when the primary (not always AJ Green) is covered or gets bumped off his route. If anything, the quick time-to-throw for Dalton proves he's better at scanning the field than McCarron. They both primarily make a lot of predetermined throws based on pre-snap reads. 

Mac took sacks at a much higher rate and held the ball longer because he needed more time to scan the field when things broke down, IMO. It could also mean that he's more easily confused than Dalton.

Apologies for the novel. Hopefully someone actually took the time to read it all.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-11-2017, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You could put Tom Brady behind a High School offensive line and he would not look terrible. 

The above is a comparison that has been made far too many times in this forum. There are a good many current QBs that would do just fine behind this oline. Russell Wilson has played behind terrible protection and no rushing game and is having a fine season. Aaron Rodgers was getting killed (got killed) and had a WR as a RB. Kirk Cousins has no oline or WRs and his RB is someone called Fat Rob. Hell even Josh McCown with absolutely nothing in NYJ currently has a passer rating in the high 90s.

This is a comparison that has been made far too often in this forum. Wilson has been sacked once every 14.6 attempts. Dalton has been sacked once every 9.8 attempts. Huge difference. If you average out those rates to 500 attempts, Wilson would be sacked 34 times and Dalton 51 times. Dalton is pressured/sacked at a far higher rate.

The Seahawks average 30 more rush yards per game and their YPC is a respectable 3.8, compared to a dismal 3.1 for the Bengals.

[*bfine32*]

(11-11-2017, 12:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is a comparison that has been made far too often in this forum. Wilson has been sacked once every 14.6 attempts. Dalton has been sacked once every 9.8 attempts. Huge difference. If you average out those rates to 500 attempts, Wilson would be sacked 34 times and Dalton 51 times. Dalton is pressured/sacked at a far higher rate.

The Seahawks average 30 more rush yards per game and their YPC is a respectable 3.8, compared to a dismal 3.1 for the Bengals.

Maybe, just maybe Wilson is a little better escaping pressure than Andy. Of course one could just ignore the obvious similarities and simply post sack stats and a .7 Yards per rush stat. 

EDIT: I assume some would be more comfortable with a Jocoby Brissett comparison, but something tells me the conversation would have then been directed toward passer rating or what they have done historically

[Shake n Blake]

(11-11-2017, 06:55 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: That's actually a pretty sad looking QB list. Most of whom are replaceable on their current teams. 

Really? Which of these guys do you think will be replaced soon? Keep in mind you said "most".

Andrew Luck - 59.2%
Cam Newton - 58.8%
Joe Flacco - 61.5%
Eli Manning - 61.4%
Jameis Winston - 60.0%
Blake Bortles - 58.9%
Carson Wentz - 61.8%
Derek Carr - 61.5%
Alex Smith - 62.3%
Matthew Stafford - 61.5%
Jared Goff - 57.7%
Carson Palmer - 62%
Marcus Mariota - 62%
Brian Hoyer - 59.3%
DeShone Kizer - 52.1%
CJ Beathard - 50.9%
Trevor Siemian - 60.2%
Brock Osweiler - 59.4%
Jacoby Brissett - 61.2%
Josh McCown - 62.6%
Jay Cutler - 62.6%


By my count, there's at least 12 QB's (out of 21) on that list that have been "good" at the very least.