{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[Essex Johnson]

(11-22-2017, 03:52 AM)Utts Wrote: Wow. He's really on a tear. 

he has been playing well.. thank you for supporting my post

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2017, 08:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: no he has Tate and Jones

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-DALTON-ON-THE-RISE-IN-QB-STATS?pid=471498#pid471498

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2017, 12:57 PM)sandwedge Wrote: It's not always about being sacked, but pressure.  AD is constantly under siege. You watch Brady and he can step up into the pocket, where as Andy has nowhere to step up into.

This is not me saying I am as good as Tom Brady, but when I watch him play against the likes of the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins, I swear I could put up some good numbers, too.

Those teams play them just like the Bengals play everyone:  scared of giving up a big play.  No one blitzes, no one can cover their underneath routes, and they just throw a lot of 5 yard passes that turn in to 10-15 yard plays.  It is so friggin easy. 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 03:52 AM)Utts Wrote: Wow. He's really on a tear. 

He kinda is. No sarcasm necessary. Over last 8 games:

@Packers: 124.1 rating, 2 TDs
@Browns: 146.0 rating, 4 TDs
vs Bills: 77.1 rating, 1 TD (better than stats suggest)
@ Steelers: 63.2 rating, 2 TDs
vs Colts: 108.8 rating, 2 TDs
@ Jags: 79.9 rating, 0 TDs
@ Titans: 100.3 rating, 2 TDs
@ Broncos: 117.3 rating, 3 TDs

Total rating of 103.8, with a 32 TD - 8 INT pace.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

The coaches and FO wasted Dalton's first two games this season. Should of fired Zampese after last season and hired
Lazor as the OC. This team would have a much better record right now, probably 6-4 and not 4-6. The coaches also
continue to start less talented players and Dalton has the worst running game in the NFL and our HC handcuffs our OC
and makes him take the gas off every 2nd half.

I mean, you cannot say enough about Dalton considering all the failures he has been around this year and last year.

[*bfine32*]

(11-21-2017, 08:20 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: good point.. what QB in the last 7 years would you consider elite ??  I say zero.. i like Wilson a lot but I don;t consider him elite.. do you ??

Stafford.. nope.. Luck nope... etc

I have these QBs at elite " Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, " that is it.. so yes I don't see Dalton as Elite but outside of 4 teams.. 28 other teams can say the same thing.. 

It's hard to go last 7 years due to turn over. For instance would Peyton Manning or Tony Romo be an elite QB from the last 7 years? If I were to give a current top 5 "elite" I'd go with the ones you liked and I would throw in Matty Ice or Wilson 

A couple I've always felt that are under-rated "near elite" are Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins. Smith has only had a passer rating of under 90 once in the past 7 years (first year at KC), while  Andy has only had a passer rating of over 90 twice in those same 7 years. Kirk Cousin has never had a passer rating of less than 97 since he's been a starter and he's done it with a terrible supporting cast.

If current trend continues we may have to talk about Wentz, but it's still a little early.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 03:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's hard to go last 7 years due to turn over. For instance would Peyton Manning or Tony Romo be an elite QB from the last 7 years? If I were to give a current top 5 "elite" I'd go with the ones you liked and I would throw in Matty Ice or Wilson 

A couple I've always felt that are under-rated "near elite" are Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins. Smith has only had a passer rating of under 90 once in the past 7 years (first year at KC), while  Andy has only had a passer rating of over 90 twice in those same 7 years. Kirk Cousin has never had a passer rating of less than 97 since he's been a starter and he's done it with a terrible supporting cast.

If current trend continues we may have to talk about Wentz, but it's still a little early.

Andy is over 90 right now. So that would be 3 times in 7 years. 

You're right that there is a LOT of turnover though. Guys have retired. Many QB's people claimed were better than Andy (guys like Foles, Kaepernick, Mariota, Bortles, RGIII, Bridgewater, etc) come and go, or fall off. Even guys like Newton, Carr and Flacco have fallen off. 

That's why I like looking at career passer rating. It gives you an accurate picture of how Dalton has truly performed compared to his peers.

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 04:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Andy is over 90 right now. So that would be 3 times in 7 years. 

You're right that there is a LOT of turnover though. Guys have retired. Many QB's people claimed were better than Andy (guys like Foles, Kaepernick, Mariota, Bortles, RGIII, Bridgewater, etc) come and go, or fall off. Even guys like Newton, Carr and Flacco have fallen off. 

That's why I like looking at career passer rating. It gives you an accurate picture of how Dalton has truly performed compared to his peers.

You have mentioned this before. It ties him with matt Schaub.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 04:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You have mentioned this before. It ties him with matt Schaub.

Well actually, he's above Matt Schaub now. He's also above:

Derek Carr
Carson Palmer
Matt Stafford
Andrew Luck
Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Jameis Winston
Cam Newton
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning

I realize what you're trying to do by bringing up Schaub, but Schaub was an excellent QB for 6 years in Houston, until he pulled a Rick Ankiel. His good passer rating has been preserved by not playing over the last 4 years. Every other QB in the top 20 or so is still considered a good QB. Schaub was truly an anomaly.

[Brownshoe]

(11-22-2017, 03:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's hard to go last 7 years due to turn over. For instance would Peyton Manning or Tony Romo be an elite QB from the last 7 years? If I were to give a current top 5 "elite" I'd go with the ones you liked and I would throw in Matty Ice or Wilson 

A couple I've always felt that are under-rated "near elite" are Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins. Smith has only had a passer rating of under 90 once in the past 7 years (first year at KC), while  Andy has only had a passer rating of over 90 twice in those same 7 years. Kirk Cousin has never had a passer rating of less than 97 since he's been a starter and he's done it with a terrible supporting cast.

If current trend continues we may have to talk about Wentz, but it's still a little early.

What?? Terrible supporting cast? lol give me a break. He's had an above average to good running game most of the years he's started. He's had players like Pierre Garcon, DeaSean Jackson, Jordan Reed, Jamison Crowder, and Vernon Davis. To say he's had a terrible supporting cast is just crazy.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 05:00 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: What?? Terrible supporting cast? lol give me a break. He's had an above average to good running game most of the years he's started. He's had players like Pierre Garcon, DeaSean Jackson, Jordan Reed, Jamison Crowder, and Vernon Davis. To say he's had a terrible supporting cast is just crazy.

Even this year, he has:

Jamison Crowder, who has put up very Marvin Jones-like numbers through 3 years.
Chris Thompson, who is having a better season than Gio has ever had.
Vernon Davis/Jordan Reed, a better TE duo than Dalton has ever had.
Terrell Pryor, a 1000 yard receiver last year.
Josh Doctson, a 1st round pick who is starting to show potential (300 yards + 3 TDs in last 8 games)
Ryan Grant, who has proven serviceable, on pace for 550 yards and 5 scores
A "decent" run game that ranks 18th in yards (102.6), 24th in YPC (3.9) and 9th in TDs (9)
Better pass blocking (sacked every 13.8 attempts, compared to every 11.0 attempts for Dalton)

This isn't a "great" supporting cast, but it's far from "terrible". Especially compared to what Dalton is dealing with.

[Brownshoe]

(11-22-2017, 05:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Even this year, he has:

Jamison Crowder, who has put up very Marvin Jones-like numbers through 3 years.
Chris Thompson, who is having a better season than Gio has ever had.
Vernon Davis/Jordan Reed, a better TE duo than Dalton has ever had.
Terrell Pryor, a 1000 yard receiver last year.
Josh Doctson, a 1st round pick who is starting to show potential (300 yards + 3 TDs in last 8 games)
Ryan Grant, who has proven serviceable, on pace for 550 yards and 5 scores
A "decent" run game that ranks 18th in yards (102.6), 24th in YPC (3.9) and 9th in TDs (9)
Better pass blocking (sacked every 13.8 attempts, compared to every 11.0 attempts for Dalton)

This isn't a "great" supporting cast, but it's far from "terrible". Especially compared to what Dalton is dealing with.

His receivers are one of the best units in the league. He's got an decent run game and a decent OL. He has Jay Gruden, who some around here give a lot of credit on how well Dalton started out. Not to mention he road the bench until the middle of his 3rd season, so he didn't have to go through rookie growing pains. I think Kirk Cousins is underrated, but to say that he's had a terrible supporting cast is just silly to me and in this context just trying to break Dalton down.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 06:47 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: His receivers are one of the best units in the league. He's got an decent run game and a decent OL. He has Jay Gruden, who some around here give a lot of credit on how well Dalton started out. Not to mention he road the bench until the middle of his 3rd season, so he didn't have to go through rookie growing pains. I think Kirk Cousins is underrated, but to say that he's had a terrible supporting cast is just silly to me and in this context just trying to break Dalton down.

I'm big on Kirk Cousins myself. I think he's near elite status.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Cousins is nowhere near elite status..

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 07:14 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Cousins is nowhere near elite status..

2015: 4166 yards, 29 TDs, 101.6 rating
2016: 4917 yards, 25 TDs, 97.2 rating
2017: 4473 yards, 27 TDs, 101.8 rating *at current pace

You must have some pretty tough standards if you think he's "nowhere near".

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 05:00 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: What?? Terrible supporting cast? lol give me a break. He's had an above average to good running game most of the years he's started. He's had players like Pierre Garcon, DeaSean Jackson, Jordan Reed, Jamison Crowder, and Vernon Davis. To say he's had a terrible supporting cast is just crazy.

List the runners that Cousins has had during his career:

Did you start laughing at yourself while you were typing Pierre Garcon, Jamison Crowder, and DeShaun Jackson?

Let me guess: You list Jordan Reed as an asset for Cousins, but would probably say we cannot consider Eifert as an asset for Dalton because of injury.

Cousins has made magic with nothing, anyone outside of this forum would tell you that. No need to slight him in efforts to pump up Andy.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Cousins is underrated, but i think so is Dalton.

Cousins has a very good O-line coach and Jay as his HC.

Dalton is hindered here compared to Cousins where we have a shitty O-line and a defensive minded HC that sticks his nose in the Offense.

Just don't understand why the Skins don't give Cousins a decent contract. He deserves it.

And i agree with Brownshoe, Cousins has had lots of very good weapons if not great.

Jordan Reed when healthy might be the most underrated TE in the game. Love Eifert but we all know his injury history is worse than Reed's.

But that doesn't mean Cousins isn't borderline elite all by himself. His numbers support this, very consistent.

[Shake n Blake]

Just because you haven't heard of the names doesn't mean the players are bad. If Jamison Crowder were a Bengal, we'd have people touting him as a weapon. In 41 games, he's produced 165 catches, 1871 yards and 9 TDs.

In Marvin Jones first 41 games, he produced 137 catches, 1814 yards and 15 TDs. (that's not counting games he didn't play). Chris Thompson was having a season that would make Gio proud, before breaking his leg this week.

Jordan Reed was drafted the same year as Eifert and has missed 13 less games (and counting) than Eifert. Vernon Davis has proven a capable replacement. I don't know anyone who would laugh at DJax and Pierre Garcon as weapons. They both have multiple 1000 yard seasons on their resume's, and DJax is one of the league's most respected deep threats. Both signed big contracts this offseason. That was viewed as one of the best tandems in the NFL before they left.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-22-2017, 09:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just because you haven't heard of the names doesn't mean the players are bad. If Jamison Crowder were a Bengal, we'd have people touting him as a weapon. In 41 games, he's produced 165 catches, 1871 yards and 9 TDs.

In Marvin Jones first 41 games, he produced 137 catches, 1814 yards and 15 TDs. (that's not counting games he didn't play). Chris Thompson was having a season that would make Gio proud, before breaking his leg this week.

Jordan Reed was drafted the same year as Eifert and has missed 13 less games (and counting) than Eifert. Vernon Davis has proven a capable replacement. I don't know anyone who would laugh at DJax and Pierre Garcon as weapons. They both have multiple 1000 yard seasons on their resume's, and DJax is one of the league's most respected deep threats. Both signed big contracts this offseason. That was viewed as one of the best tandems in the NFL before they left.

Nice post as usual Shake, i don't just watch the Bengals. These guys are all pretty well known to me.

But that also doesn't mean that Cousins isn't a very good QB.

Dalton i think is a very good QB as well and could be elite with a good O-line, somewhat of a running game
and a coach that knows you need Receivers that get SOME seperation besides just one guy. Experience isn't
everything in the NFL, you also need talent and need to know how to use that talent to the best of its ability.

All i am saying is that Dalton is handcuffed more than Cousins so it is unfair to judge Dalton in ways.

If anything you have to give him the benefit of the doubt with this shit.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-22-2017, 10:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post as usual Shake, i don't just watch the Bengals. These guys are all pretty well known to me.

But that also doesn't mean that Cousins isn't a very good QB.

Dalton i think is a very good QB as well and could be elite with a good O-line, somewhat of a running game
and a coach that knows you need Receivers that get SOME seperation besides just one guy. Experience isn't
everything in the NFL, you also need talent and need to know how to use that talent to the best of its ability.

All i am saying is that Dalton is handcuffed more than Cousins so it is unfair to judge Dalton in ways.

If anything you have to give him the benefit of the doubt with this shit.

Thanks, and I agree with you. I like Cousins a lot. I'd trade Dalton for him. 

I just find it interesting when someone claims Cousins has had a terrible cast around him, yet I've never seen this person being fair to Andy about the actual crap that surrounds him, especially this season. There is no comparison between his current cast and what Cousins has dealt with.