ML Article

[PDub80]

I feel like Marvin should NOT have amnesia at this point.

He should really try to remember the reasons he F'd up so that he can fix them. Ignoring them like they didn't happen hasn't seemed to work.

[masonbengals fan]

No doubt he should have been fired after last year. But I will give the organization credit when it's due. So far so good this offseason. Just need to nail this draft now.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-26-2018, 01:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Who has an argument anyone who feels ML should have been fired is whining?

Let's just all hope all of us who wanted him gone are happy after 2018 season. 

I doubt Marv gets fired with a year left on his deal and new coaches he just hired. I think we're in for 20 years of Marv, at least.

It's been so long since this became ridiculous, that sometimes I have to remind myself how ridiculous it is that Marv is still here. You almost become numb to it.

I'll just hope that by some miracle Marv figures out how to make the playoffs (half the time) AND win a playoff game. He's not going anywhere.

(03-26-2018, 07:33 PM)McC Wrote: I wonder if a new coach would have gotten the things accomplished so far that Marvin has.  He probably was our best chance for change, as much as it pains me to say it.

You put Tom Coughlin in his place, and I think he accomplishes at least the same with more playoff wins. For several years, we had enough talent and Merv just couldn't get these guys up for a playoff game. It's ridiculous. This post is just mental gymnastics to make yourself feel better about Merv still being here. That's not me trying to knock you at all, I just think people get to a point where they want to find reasons to be positive. 

"It could be worse" is a terrible reason to be positive.

Fwiw, as good as I feel about this offseason, I don't think it was true "change" so much as a reboot 3.0 (sans the QB trade demand). Mike does these reboots because he'd rather do that than fire Marvin Lewis, who is basically family to him now.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

The Front Office has never made him go 0-7 in postseason, or pathetic against the Steelers, or pathetic in prime-time games. Or close up the team with a lead at halftime into the most conservative football around.

So I don't really buy how much real change can occur.

[sonofstat]

(03-27-2018, 01:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I doubt Marv gets fired with a year left on his deal and new coaches he just hired. I think we're in for 20 years of Marv, at least.

It's been so long since this became ridiculous, that sometimes I have to remind myself how ridiculous it is that Marv is still here. You almost become numb to it.

I'll just hope that by some miracle Marv figures out how to make the playoffs (half the time) AND win a playoff game. He's not going anywhere.


You put Tom Coughlin in his place, and I think he accomplishes at least the same with more playoff wins. For several years, we had enough talent and Merv just couldn't get these guys up for a playoff game. It's ridiculous. This post is just mental gymnastics to make yourself feel better about Merv still being here. That's not me trying to knock you at all, I just think people get to a point where they want to find reasons to be positive. 

"It could be worse" is a terrible reason to be positive.

Fwiw, as good as I feel about this offseason, I don't think it was true "change" so much as a reboot 3.0 (sans the QB trade demand). Mike does these reboots because he'd rather do that than fire Marvin Lewis, who is basically family to him now.

I think with the amount of churn we've had in the coaching staff there will inevitably be change - certainly a change in scheme/focus, deployment of personnel, etc.   

Now the culture, overall game management, conservativeness might remain the same as much of that is more attributable to the HC/owner but I can't imagine with basically two new co-ordinators and a slew of new position coaches that it all stays the same.

What I think is interesting is to consider whether Marvin truly instigated these changes or not.   e.g. If Zampese was still the OC and not Lazor would Alexander still be here....I think that was Lazor showing some stones and demanding a change if he's permanent OC.

I'll also think Lazor (and maybe Pollak?) also probably pushed for the Glenn trade.

On Defense if Gruden does not go to Raiders then I think Paulie G stays and thus not a lot would have changed that side either.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-26-2018, 10:24 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know ML is not popular, but a lot of fans have applauded a different off season thus far with the one exception they kept ML. Here is article from Bengals website.

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Upbeat-Lewis-salutes-changes/6748d0d3-6dd0-4ccc-bef5-43c3d06c5fd5

I have still have my reservations, but I went from numb and don't care to now I will wait and see. how about you?

It definately seems different, but Merv is still here and that is not a good thing. Wink, wink.

I think if we get a top Center we could honestly take away his weaknesses, i have said this before, with a good running game
playing not to lose would work. It isn't a coincidence that the last two times where we definately looked like a team to beat the
O-line was decent, 2005 and 2015. Just imagine how it could look under a guy like Frank Pollack.

[Hammerstripes]

It's amazing how ONE trade can make people feel like things have changed.

To me, the reality is that nothing has really changed. We signed one of our own guys (Eifert) and signed a couple of bargain bin types (Brown and Baker) and now claim that they have to cut some salary after the draft (Lord knows why when we still have $18 million under the cap)

The Glenn trade was a nice change, but it really wasn't too far from the norm. We've traded late rounders for guys before. We still refuse to make any moves in free agency because they will harm our comp picks. We still have major holes on the roster where we will be relying on long term backups or rookies to fill in week 1.

Hopefully we see a C drafted early - or it's going to be another long year. Hopefully we can see another interior guy drafted early that can play or we are going to see the same crap that we did last.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-27-2018, 02:02 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It's amazing how ONE trade can make people feel like things have changed.

To me, the reality is that nothing has really changed.  We signed one of our own guys (Eifert) and signed a couple of bargain bin types (Brown and Baker) and now claim that they have to cut some salary after the draft (Lord knows why when we still have $18 million under the cap)

The Glenn trade was a nice change, but it really wasn't too far from the norm.  We've traded late rounders for guys before.  We still refuse to make any moves in free agency because they will harm our comp picks.  We still have major holes on the roster where we will be relying on long term backups or rookies to fill in week 1.

Hopefully we see a C drafted early - or it's going to be another long year.  Hopefully we can see another interior guy drafted early that can play or we are going to see the same crap that we did last.

How so? They traded a pick to move back nine spots and got an above-average talent at a position of desperate need. This is one of the smartest moves the Bengals have made in terms of acquiring talent from outside the organization, and its significance shouldn’t be downplayed.

[sandwedge]

(03-27-2018, 02:02 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It's amazing how ONE trade can make people feel like things have changed.

To me, the reality is that nothing has really changed.  We signed one of our own guys (Eifert) and signed a couple of bargain bin types (Brown and Baker) and now claim that they have to cut some salary after the draft (Lord knows why when we still have $18 million under the cap)

The Glenn trade was a nice change, but it really wasn't too far from the norm.  We've traded late rounders for guys before.  We still refuse to make any moves in free agency because they will harm our comp picks.  We still have major holes on the roster where we will be relying on long term backups or rookies to fill in week 1.

Hopefully we see a C drafted early - or it's going to be another long year.  Hopefully we can see another interior guy drafted early that can play or we are going to see the same crap that we did last.

I really like the Brown pick up personally, I wouldn't call him a bargain pick up. 
I do agree to some extent, we are getting better players than we had before and that will go along way, but Lewis needs to change his approach to games more than anything. Will that happen?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-27-2018, 02:14 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: How so? They traded a pick to move back nine spots and got an above-average talent at a position of desperate need. This is one of the smartest moves the Bengals have made in terms of acquiring talent from outside the organization, and its significance shouldn’t be downplayed.

You know it HH. To say that trade wasn't too far from the norm is idiotic. Never seen a move like this before. LT was our
biggest weakness on our team besides Center and we will be going with a proven LT in Glenn and from everything i hear a
top tier Center in the Draft to replace Bodine.

Preston Brown was the tackling leader last year in the NFL, he is a great run stopper and a thumper that is a 3 down backer
and is in his prime unlike our normal LB signing in FA.

If this is a bargain bin type of signing, i want to see more of them.

Marvin Lewis is still here and i don't like it but if he didn't come back who knows if these things would of happened.

A new HC might of just been in the same place Merv was when he first got here. Handcuffed with no say in FA.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-26-2018, 07:33 PM)McC Wrote: I wonder if a new coach would have gotten the things accomplished so far that Marvin has.  He probably was our best chance for change, as much as it pains me to say it.

Mike said himself that he wanted to get the line shored up, so I would venture to say that would still of been a point of focus even with a new HC. I would say that he probably did have a better feel on what to ask for in regards to players, tho. He knows they aren't getting Norwell or any other "premium" player. Marv knows 1,000% how MB works now, so he can pitch various ideas to him that he knows is in his wheelhouse. I still get sorta deflated realizing that it's still Marv running the team, so even with all these very smart moves, we have a guy who is the most non-clutch guy i've ever known.  :giggle:

[Benton]

I think Marvin is just as comfortable heading into this season as he was the last.

The problem there is, there's no fear of failing. There's questionable motivation or drive when you get to do a bad job and don't get reprimanded. If we go to the SB this year or if we only win four games, Marvin's just going to shrug it off and say "hey, we tried" while not answering for "how much."

[Hammerstripes]

(03-27-2018, 02:14 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: How so? They traded a pick to move back nine spots and got an above-average talent at a position of desperate need. This is one of the smartest moves the Bengals have made in terms of acquiring talent from outside the organization, and its significance shouldn’t be downplayed.

Mainly because it's something that they've done before - granted it's been awhile (Delta O'Neil).  But it's still a move that ensures that they don't lose any of their precious comp picks.

(03-27-2018, 02:24 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I really like the Brown pick up personally, I wouldn't call him a bargain pick up. 

I do agree to some extent, we are getting better players than we had before and that will go along way, but Lewis needs to change his approach to games more than anything. Will that happen?

I think anyone that comes in on a 1-year deal is a bargain pickup.  Obviously there wasn't much of a market for him, otherwise he would have gotten a long term deal somewhere.  Very similar to the Minter deal, which I also viewed as a bargain pickup.

And don't get me wrong, I love both moves and I'm glad they pulled the trigger on them.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-27-2018, 01:25 PM)sonofstat Wrote: I think with the amount of churn we've had in the coaching staff there will inevitably be change - certainly a change in scheme/focus, deployment of personnel, etc.   

Now the culture, overall game management, conservativeness might remain the same as much of that is more attributable to the HC/owner but I can't imagine with basically two new co-ordinators and a slew of new position coaches that it all stays the same.

What I think is interesting is to consider whether Marvin truly instigated these changes or not.   e.g. If Zampese was still the OC and not Lazor would Alexander still be here....I think that was Lazor showing some stones and demanding a change if he's permanent OC.

I'll also think Lazor (and maybe Pollak?) also probably pushed for the Glenn trade.

On Defense if Gruden does not go to Raiders then I think Paulie G stays and thus not a lot would have changed that side either.

When I said "change" I'm referring to change at the organizational level. The front office. How they view free agency. The patience they have with position coaches. People see these offseason moves and think Marvin Lewis finally got through to Mike. I don't see that. I see reboot 3.0 that was done purely as a means of selling tickets and generating hype while also keeping Marv around, which is a very unexciting move.

They shuffle everything else so they can keep Marv. It's very similar to our 2011 offseason, where we finally canned a hated coach (Bratkowski) and brought in a few exciting new players. We kept Marv though (obviously).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-27-2018, 02:26 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Mike said himself that he wanted to get the line shored up, so I would venture to say that would still of been a point of focus even with a new HC. I would say that he probably did have a better feel on what to ask for in regards to players, tho. He knows they aren't getting Norwell or any other "premium" player. Marv knows 1,000% how MB works now, so he can pitch various ideas to him that he knows is in his wheelhouse. I still get sorta deflated realizing that it's still Marv running the team, so even with all these very smart moves, we have a guy who is the most non-clutch guy i've ever known.  :giggle:

Merv is the exact opposite of Doug Pederson, that is for sure.

(03-27-2018, 02:34 PM)Benton Wrote: I think Marvin is just as comfortable heading into this season as he was the last.

The problem there is, there's no fear of failing. There's questionable motivation or drive when you get to do a bad job and don't get reprimanded. If we go to the SB this year or if we only win four games, Marvin's just going to shrug it off and say "hey, we tried" while not answering for "how much."

Hope you are wrong and there is some urgency Benton. These moves do not seem to support this point thankfully.

(03-27-2018, 02:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Mainly because it's something that they've done before - granted it's been awhile (Delta O'Neil).  But it's still a move that ensures that they don't lose any of their precious comp picks.


I think anyone that comes in on a 1-year deal is a bargain pickup.  Obviously there wasn't much of a market for him, otherwise he would have gotten a long term deal somewhere.  Very similar to the Minter deal, which I also viewed as a bargain pickup.

And don't get me wrong, I love both moves and I'm glad they pulled the trigger on them.

Been awhile alright, nice in bringing up Deltha O'Neil who i forgot about honestly.

Preston Brown is still getting paid right around 5 mil for one year. I think the re-signing of Geno needs to be done first or even
Dunlap and then we will see a long term deal with the man. Cincy is his home and is a big reason why Preston wanted to come
here over other places. A sure tackling player that led the league in tackles and was a 3 down backer that is in his prime is
different than the normal AJ Hawk, Carlos Dansby signings we usually see IMHO.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-27-2018, 01:25 PM)sonofstat Wrote: I think with the amount of churn we've had in the coaching staff there will inevitably be change

I can't imagine with basically two new co-ordinators and a slew of new position coaches that it all stays the same.

After the 2013 season, the Bengals lost Jay Gruden and Mike Zimmer. So not "basically" two new ones, but literally two new ones.

In 2013 they embarrassingly lost in the wild card round of the playoffs.
In 2014 they embarrassingly lost in the wild card round of the playoffs.

[fredtoast]

(03-27-2018, 02:34 PM)Benton Wrote: I think Marvin is just as comfortable heading into this season as he was the last.

The problem there is, there's no fear of failing. There's questionable motivation or drive when you get to do a bad job and don't get reprimanded. If we go to the SB this year or if we only win four games, Marvin's just going to shrug it off and say "hey, we tried" while not answering for "how much."

Sorry, but I just can not imagine a guy being motivated enough to become an NFL head coach and then not give a shit about his reputation.

There are a few things to criticize Marvin for, but I don't see lack of effort being one.  You think you get upset because your favorite team has a losing record, just imagine how you would feel if you were a huge public persona and your entire identity was defined by that teams record.  It has to kill Marvin that he can't win these big games.  The fact that he doesn't pitch a fit like a child does not mean he does not care.

Marvin was not handed a coaching job because of his family name or because he was a famous NFL player.  He had to work his ass off to get where he is.  And I believe he has too much pride in his reputation to just half ass do his job.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-27-2018, 02:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Mainly because it's something that they've done before - granted it's been awhile (Delta O'Neil).  But it's still a move that ensures that they don't lose any of their precious comp picks.


I think anyone that comes in on a 1-year deal is a bargain pickup.  Obviously there wasn't much of a market for him, otherwise he would have gotten a long term deal somewhere.  Very similar to the Minter deal, which I also viewed as a bargain pickup.

And don't get me wrong, I love both moves and I'm glad they pulled the trigger on them.

Not really disagreeing much, but it could be more that the offers he got weren't as big as he wanted, so he took a one year deal to try and cash in next year. Suh just did the same thing, but I'm pretty sure plenty of teams would've offered him a multi year deal at less money than he wanted. 

It's also possible that he wanted to "come home" and left lengthier deals on the table to come to Cincinnati.

[fredtoast]

And I find it funny how some people here will go off on huge rants about the front office until they get to a Marvin Lewis thread then it is all "No blame on the front office".

[BengalChris]

(03-27-2018, 02:34 PM)Benton Wrote: I think Marvin is just as comfortable heading into this season as he was the last.

The problem there is, there's no fear of failing. There's questionable motivation or drive when you get to do a bad job and don't get reprimanded. If we go to the SB this year or if we only win four games, Marvin's just going to shrug it off and say "hey, we tried" while not answering for "how much."

Mike Brown is a failure himself, so no reason to expect him to demand success from anyone else.