The QB position

[BengalChris]

(05-11-2018, 01:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll never understand the logic of blaming Marvin for 0-7, but also holding Dalton accountable for 0-4. If you think we're losing because Marv is doing something wrong, wouldn't that also affect Dalton? 

Aren't our other QB's 0-3 with a 59.6 rating overall? Marv can't set any QB up to play well. He also can't coach the rest of the team to play well.

I saved this old post and feel it fits pretty well here:


Marvin can't get anyone to play well in the playoffs. Poor Andy is just a cog in a wheel that's been turning for 15 years.


When did Dalton's 2015 season get shortened to 8 games?

He played 12 full games that year, with only 2 games with a rating under 95.6. 

Center to everything has been the one and only Mike Brown who finds all of this completely acceptable. My post was pinning it all on Mike Brown for accepting these "0 fors" as okay with him.

Dalton's playoff stats are so bad that you can't lay them on the coach. Lewis didn't throw those INTs or cough up the ball the way Dalton did. 

Lewis' playoff stats are so bad and so consistently bad that you can't blame the players because he's managed to consistently field unprepared teams with completely different personnel.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-11-2018, 05:04 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: The excuses for Dalton are hilarious. They get more and more outlandish each season.  

No, they don't. They're the same "excuses" that have always been there. 

(05-11-2018, 05:04 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: At this point nobody can ever blame anything on Dalton because it is always someone else's fault.  

False. But, if it that's what you have to tell yourself to keep from admitting that Dalton is an above average quarterback, well, I ain't your psychiatrist and not in charge of fixing your delusions.

(05-11-2018, 05:04 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Which is why there is no point to even having a discussion about him.

Then why are you here?

[BengalChris]

(05-11-2018, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kraft kept QB Drew Bledsoe even those his numbers through his first 4 postseason games (830 passing yards, 49.1 rating) were worse than Dalton's (873 yds, 57.8 rating)

He changed coaches, and I am pretty certain that my memory in that department is solid.

The coach then changed QBs.

I am also certain that Robert Kraft's expectations have risen the year 2000. Before they won a SB he wanted to win one, but after they've consistently won and been in a huge number of SBs, he knows it is possible to dominate for years at a time without much of any let down.

Can you say that about Mike Brown?????

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-11-2018, 05:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sorry CB, the Dalton hate is hilarious, especially when all these so called Dalton Army dudes bring up stats that
support the claim that he has been one of the better QB's in the league since coming into it. Everyone from our
HC to our entire team has failed in the Playoffs so it is not just Dalton's fault.

He has played bad but so has everyone else except for Burfict in the Steelers game pretty much.

Look at the run game stats that Shake shown, we have been absolutely terrible running the ball in Playoff games
and a good running game is a QB's best friend.

Dalton has been our best runner for heck sake. Dalton is not the problem.

A better run blocking O-line under Pollack can help take some pressure off of Dalton. We have a good running
attack in a Playoff game and Dalton throws the game away and i will be right with you. Doubt it happens tho, if
he has a good running game he should thrive as should the entire team.

I am going to be a selfish bastid and bump my own post that was buried so CB might acknowledge it.

Or maybe just read it. Dalton needs a running game, hopefully Pollack can coach up the guys to give him one in
the Playoffs cause PA sure is hell couldn't.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-11-2018, 01:36 PM)Okeana Wrote: I am going to try to be positive on Dalton this year, but I will always consider him an average quarterback at best. Fact is we had years where our team was amazingly stacked with talent and simply could not translate that to post season success because of several factors but mainly Dalton. I will say that Dalton looks more muscular this year so maybe that's a positive. This season could turn out to be amazing if Ross has a breakout and Mixon flourishes behind a newly redesigned line. People win superbowls all the time behind average quarterbacks we just need the other stars to step up and some draft choices to pan out.

Idk about “all the time”

Seems like it’s fairly rare to me. It’s mostly the Brady’s, Big Bens’, Brees’, Rodgers’, Wilson’s, and Manning’s of the world that are winning the majority of the Super Bowls. It’s only every once in a while you get a Flaaco or a Foles.

[CornerBlitz]

Again, all I hear are excuses. It's either the coaching staff, the running game, or the o line. As I've stated several times, there is no point in having a discussion because regardless of what point is brought up, you guys will continue to excuse him. I haven't had an Andy Dalton debate in quite a while and this was a perfect reminder of why i'm going to try my best to refrain from any further discussion.

Q: How can one have an objective discussion about a player when regardless of how he plays the other person will excuse him?

A: You can't, so there is no point.

[Steve]

(04-29-2018, 10:46 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Lamar Jackson fits the mold of the one hit wonder QBs. Vick, RG3, etc. 

I expect him to turn some heads early, but break down into a worthless turnover machine over time.

Jackson won the Heisman award one yr & was the runner up the next yr....
he's not a "one hit wonder"....
in time he will be the #1 best QB in the NFL.....
pro bowl every yr....he's got a very strong arm & can run like the wind....but yet many ppl diss him....SPEED KILLS...

imo, the Bengals had to draft a Center at 21 but I wish they would of moved up like the Rat birds did to pick Jackson....
Brilliant move by the Ravens.......
ppl act like all we have is Dalton.....Driscoll is a fine QB....he could start & our Offense will be fine....but w/ Dalton's contract going higher & higher we could let him walk in a yr or two....Balt should of done that w/ Flacco 2 yrs ago....
Big Ben is trending DOWN.....old & SLOW, just like Flacco....
this should be the last yr for both Ben & JOE...& maybe Dalton too b/c of his future contract is just too high...

[*PhilHos*]

(05-12-2018, 07:38 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Again, all I hear are excuses.  It's either the coaching staff, the running game, or the o line.  As I've stated several times, there is no point in having a discussion because regardless of what point is brought up, you guys will continue to excuse him. I haven't had an Andy Dalton debate in quite a while and this was a perfect reminder of why i'm going to try my best to refrain from any further discussion.

Q: How can one have an objective discussion about a player when regardless of how he plays the other person will excuse him?

A: You can't, so there is no point.

Except no one's excusing him. This is why we can't have a debate; people like you who can't handle the facts and stats are provided and so instead cry "excuses" when everyone defending Dalton has said he's played poorly in the playoffs and needs to be more consistent.

The "excuses" you bemoan are to point out that the fault for the playoff losses do not rest squarely on Dalton. That's not to say Dalton doesn't share the blame, but whenever this is pointed out to people like you, you stick your fingers in your ear and whine that we're excusing Dalton and it's not worth discussing about him.

So, the way I see it, you have a choice. Either recognize that no one's excusing Dalton's poor play AND that he's not the sole reason we lost in the playoffs and engage in fruitful discussion with the rest of us or continue to think Dalton sucks even though the facts say otherwise and keep your thoughts to yourself. Those aren't your only 2 choices, to be sure, but it'll at least spare the rest of us your pathetic crying. Thanks.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2018, 07:38 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Again, all I hear are excuses.

No, you hear explanations.  Nomatter what facts are put in front of you you refuse to acknowledge them.  It is a game you love to play.  


That is why you have made at least a dozen posts about how you don't like these discussions and won't take part iun them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-12-2018, 07:38 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Again, all I hear are excuses.  It's either the coaching staff, the running game, or the o line.  As I've stated several times, there is no point in having a discussion because regardless of what point is brought up, you guys will continue to excuse him. I haven't had an Andy Dalton debate in quite a while and this was a perfect reminder of why i'm going to try my best to refrain from any further discussion.

Q: How can one have an objective discussion about a player when regardless of how he plays the other person will excuse him?

A: You can't, so there is no point.

Hey man, i call out Dalton when he plays bad.

I don't play favorites never have, but you have some clear Dalton hate that seems to be blinding you from seeing
when he plays well. The truth is a QB needs a good O-line and a good running game is a QB's best friend. When
Dalton had his best season in 2015 he had a decent O-line and a decent running game and he was an MVP candidate.

We were 8-0 at one point and were an elite team, then the O-line went to shit and look what happens, Dalton doesn't
play near as well. Brady wouldn't play well behind that shit O-line we have had the last few years coached by PA.

Just watch this season if Pollack gets the O-line fixed. Dalton will have his best season and you probably won't be
around here to admit you were wrong about him.

[Joelist]

(05-12-2018, 01:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey man, i call out Dalton when he plays bad.

I don't play favorites never have, but you have some clear Dalton hate that seems to be blinding you from seeing
when he plays well. The truth is a QB needs a good O-line and a good running game is a QB's best friend. When
Dalton had his best season in 2015 he had a decent O-line and a decent running game and he was an MVP candidate.

We were 8-0 at one point and were an elite team, then the O-line went to shit and look what happens, Dalton doesn't
play near as well. Brady wouldn't play well behind that shit O-line we have had the last few years coached by PA.

Just watch this season if Pollack gets the O-line fixed. Dalton will have his best season and you probably won't be
around here to admit you were wrong about him.

Sadly we have three posters here who do what you are describing. 

I was thinking back to 2005 when we had a killer offense and it had some things we cannot claim to have now and in fact have consistently lacked:

a) A legitimate #2 WR - TJ was critical to the success of that offense especially on third down.

b) Legit interior line players. Bobbie Williams, Steinbach and Braham were a sound interior line and we have not had one since then.

c) A sound TE - he may not have been flashy but Reggie Kelly was reliable and played the position well. 

d) An actual running game. Again the running game has been AOL for a while now.

I agree that if our trade with Buffalo for Glenn, the Price pick and above all dumping Piano Man for Pollack work out we could start coming back as we may FINALLY be back to solid OL play. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-12-2018, 10:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No, you hear explanations.  Nomatter what facts are put in front of you you refuse to acknowledge them.  It is a game you love to play.  


That is why you have made at least a dozen posts about how you don't like these discussions and won't take part iun them.

Don't play like he has a monopoly of refusing to acknowledge facts because of bias. You and others have been presented with endless facts that illustrate Andy Dalton is nothing more than an average NFL QB, but you come up with BS like "fumble rate" and applaud his rushing TDs without acknowledging he has one of the worst rushing YPC in the NFL for a starting QB.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2018, 06:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't play like he has a monopoly of refusing to acknowledge facts because of bias. You and others have been presented with endless facts that illustrate Andy Dalton is nothing more than an average NFL QB, but you come up with BS like "fumble rate" and applaud his rushing TDs without acknowledging he has one of the worst rushing YPC in the NFL for a starting QB.

Okey Dokey.

Endless facts include

"There are only 24 starting QBs in the NFL"

"2015 never happened"

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-12-2018, 02:59 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sadly we have three posters here who do what you are describing. 

I was thinking back to 2005 when we had a killer offense and it had some things we cannot claim to have now and in fact have consistently lacked:

a) A legitimate #2 WR - TJ was critical to the success of that offense especially on third down.

b) Legit interior line players. Bobbie Williams, Steinbach and Braham were a sound interior line and we have not had one since then.

c) A sound TE - he may not have been flashy but Reggie Kelly was reliable and played the position well. 

d) An actual running game. Again the running game has been AOL for a while now.

I agree that if our trade with Buffalo for Glenn, the Price pick and above all dumping Piano Man for Pollack work out we could start coming back as we may FINALLY be back to solid OL play. 

So true Joelist, all of this. Starts with the trenches and that was a very sound interior line as you say. With Boling, Price
and Westerman/Redmond we could be back to those good old days and we will see what Dalton can really be. I don't
understand the dudes that slam him when any QB besides maybe Rodgers would look bad behind these lines.

I can understand why people slam Dalton for throwing the ball away on 4th down. This is unacceptable but his overall
play considering the O-line has been good and he is not the problem.

Like you said in the Price thread, Dalton might die of shock from finally having a pocket to step into. He just might
panic a little bit at the sight of it.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-12-2018, 06:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't play like he has a monopoly of refusing to acknowledge facts because of bias. You and others have been presented with endless facts that illustrate Andy Dalton is nothing more than an average NFL QB, but you come up with BS like "fumble rate" and applaud his rushing TDs without acknowledging he has one of the worst rushing YPC in the NFL for a starting QB.

While I will admit there are some Dalton defenders who will refuse to acknowledge certain facts about Dalton, no one has presented "endless facts" that illustrate Dalton is nothing more than an average NFL QB. I have seen SOME stats (or facts) that could be used to suggest so, but I have mostly seen OPINION to suggest that he's nothing more than average. I have, though, seen far more stats (or facts) presented that illustrate Dalton is an ABOVE average NFL QB, but you still see you and others claim otherwise. 

[XenoMorph]

(05-12-2018, 06:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't play like he has a monopoly of refusing to acknowledge facts because of bias. You and others have been presented with endless facts that illustrate Andy Dalton is nothing more than an average NFL QB, but you come up with BS like "fumble rate" and applaud his rushing TDs without acknowledging he has one of the worst rushing YPC in the NFL for a starting QB.

And do you purpose to know who would be an upgrade? Based on play on the field in the NFL and is available?

[*bfine32*]

(05-14-2018, 05:43 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: And do you purpose to know who would be an upgrade? Based on play on the field in the NFL and is available?

I have never called for Andy to be replaced on a permanent basis. There are games that I have suggested he should be required to take a seat and watch the game, but NEVER have called for him to be replaced.

I did say this past draft that I would have liked us to go a little earlier in the draft for QB. 

[Steve]

(05-09-2018, 09:52 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Dalton still sucks can we move on.  unless he has a perfect supporting staff, he is a below average quarterback who shrinks in the spot light

that's just your opinion....
& I for one disagree....
it's hard to be a pro bowl QB when your O-line sucks & you're running for your life on every pass play....

[HarleyDog]

(05-14-2018, 08:32 PM)Steve Wrote: that's just your opinion....
& I for one disagree....
it's hard to be a pro bowl QB when your O-line sucks & you're running for your life on every pass play....

I agree. Dalton has not been stellar by any means, but to not consider what he must work with is not reasonable.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I’ve read through this entire thread and then I watched about 30 minutes of Andy Dalton videos on YouTube. I’m sticking with Andy.