QB Index by Gregg Rosenthal

[CornerBlitz]

(09-10-2015, 04:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132?campaign=fb-nf-sf12966187-sf12966187

Interesting, sort of.

He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.

This is the "top shelf" under Rodgers.

2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Andrew Luck
4. Tom Brady
5. Matt Ryan
6. Philip Rivers
7. Drew Brees
8. Tony Romo
9. Russell Wilson
10. Peyton Manning

This is the "next level".

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick

Andy is included with the "stuck in the middle" crowd.

20. Alex Smith
21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles

"The rookies"

25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

Finally, "the question marks"

27. Derek Carr
28. Kirk Cousins
29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
30. Tyrod Taylor
31. Josh McCown
32. Brian Hoyer

People always seem to have interesting things to say about Rosenthal's objectivity. I'm not sure if he's being biased, but I disagree with a handful of his rankings. Some of these seem strange. I won't get to really look much more into this until later though, but figured I'd post it before I had to go for a while.

His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

While I don't agree with the list entirely; I concede that Dalton is probably in the right spot.

[jj22]

(09-11-2015, 01:43 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't think most people want to continue to try have an intelligent conversation with another who personally attacks them and in particular their intellect.

But you keep up with your I am the smartest poster in the forum mantra by trying to dismiss others thoughts and opinions. It is who you are and those of us who know it, expect it from you.

Well that's DJ for you. He is who he is.

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 03:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: I know, I know. Teams make playoffs, but a qb loses them I remember the rules. But remember all Dalton had most of the season/playoffs was Hill. And still got 10 wins. And you can't credit the defense. So if you can't understand how crazy it is that a below average qb can do what an elite qb can't then sorry about that.

And by the way Dalton never had the benefit of the defenses Flacco had during his playoff runs/wins early in his career.

I never said the QB loses them. I will tell you if a QB plays well or poorly in a game, but I'm not running around handing a "playoff appearance" stat to a QB. That's silly.

Why can't I credit the defense? Are you saying they DIDN'T play well in some of the games that we won last year? I also never said that Andy shouldn't get some of the credit for the wins, when he plays well, he certainly deserves it. You're just making up weird arguments to fit your narrative that make zero sense. What did a below average QB do that an elite QB can't? I don't even know what you're talking about, because you're just spewing more BS.

Matt Ryan lost some players to injury and still had a good statistical season. Andy lost some players to injury and didn't have a good statistical season. Team records mean nothing when we're discussion individual accomplishments. Do you comprehend that?

Honestly, what's so hard to figure out about judging an individual's performance separately from the team's performance?

Saying that the 12 best QBs in the league are whoever happen to be starting for the 12 teams that make the playoffs is waaaaay too broad of a view to look at anything like this. That's casual fan shit there, and that's not what any of these discussions are about. Sorry, but we like to go more in depth than "whoever is on the playoff teams is obviously #1-#12!!!"

[xxlt]

(09-10-2015, 04:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.







His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

The first ranking above is arguably correct. The rest of the list was complete garbage. And the above assessment of Dalton is beyond way off.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-11-2015, 10:48 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I always hate how people have Smith over Dalton, and how Stafford and Newton are always so high. Stafford has a big arm and always has the best receivers in the league. Stafford is very inaccurate, but has a powerful arm (some of his best years in accuracy are like Dalton's worst). Every time I watch him I think he's playing a game of "jackpot" just throws the ball down the field to Calvin Johnson, and Johnson normally snatches the ball easily. Cam Newton had a great rookie year, but has been getting worse every year. Dalton has had better stats than Newton every year other than their rookie year. Smith... lol his career high is like 3300 yards and 23 TDs, and thats with Jamaal Charles having a majority of those stats.

I agree about Stafford, and I think he is yet to win a playoff game, either.  He has seemingly "leveled off" in terms of his production.  He had a lot of injuries early, but has been pretty durable of late.  I see a lot of similarities between him and Dalton, and this year might be Stafford's first with a pretty good running game. 

Smith has had a long time to turn in to a "serviceable" QB, but he did show pretty well in the playoffs, albeit in a loss.

Your examples fly in the face of the criticism of Dalton, who seems to be only remembered for his poor games and not his good ones....which do outnumber the bad ones significantly. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-11-2015, 12:05 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Flacco has a Super Bowl ring.  So yes, in the eyes of anyone outside of Bengaldom, that makes him a clearly better quarterback.  Like it or not, the playoffs is what truly define a player.  Those are the biggest games, on the biggest stage.

This is true.  So, if Andy goes on a run in the postseason and wins a Super Bowl, then he is, essentially Joe Flacco. 

Largely inconsistent, but one great season that results in a ring. 

I wouldn't care what he was labeled.  I would just love to see him get that ring....this year. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-11-2015, 01:43 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't think most people want to continue to try have an intelligent conversation with another who personally attacks them and in particular their intellect.

But you keep up with your I am the smartest poster in the forum mantra by trying to dismiss others thoughts and opinions. It is who you are and those of us who know it, expect it from you.

This board got a lot better when I realized it had an ignore feature.  Had never had cause to use one before, but it really made this a great place. 

[The Caped Crusader]

I think these are all terrible. Just thought I'd share.

[*Synric*]

(09-11-2015, 10:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Newton is quite the dynamic playmaker though. He's not a typical pocket passer and he doesn't rack up a ton of yardage overall, but he's pretty good.

Some people really overrate Stafford, he's definitely not a bad QB, but he reminds me of a guy like Jay Cutler. Rocket arm, can rack up volume with good receivers, but isn't that great. People have been lowering Cutlers stock quite a bit over the past couple of years, but for some reason a lot of lists still see Stafford either in or right by the top 10. I don't get it honestly.

I used to think Alex Smith was pretty good, but he just doesn't do much. Their offense last year was almost funny to watch.

Stafford, Bradford, Palmer, and Kaepernick I just don't understand.

PS. I think Andrew Luck deserves to be in the top category.

[BleedNOrange]

(09-11-2015, 06:05 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is true.  So, if Andy goes on a run in the postseason and wins a Super Bowl, then he is, essentially Joe Flacco. 

Largely inconsistent, but one great season that results in a ring. 

I wouldn't care what he was labeled.  I would just love to see him get that ring....this year. 

I don't care if you call him Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, or Joe Montana...as long as he gets a ring (with the Bengals that is).

[jj22]

Watching Matt Ryan last night all I could think of is those INT and almost fumble was Dalton like. But as usual the National media will ignore them. He almost cost them the game as thing turned after that. Not surprising Dalton doesn't get away with play like that with the National media, what is, is that Bengals fans act like they don't see it. Same with a lot of the of the other so called elite qb's this past weekend. Mulitple INT games, fumbles etc. Things folks seem to ignore.

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 09:13 AM)jj22 Wrote: Watching Matt Ryan last night all I could think of is those INT and almost fumble was Dalton like. But as usual the National media will ignore them. He almost cost them the game as thing turned after that. Not surprising Dalton doesn't get away with play like that with the National media, what is, is that Bengals fans act like they don't see it. Same with a lot of the of the other so called elite qb's this past weekend. Mulitple INT games, fumbles etc. Things folks seem to ignore.

Is this the only card you ever pull?

"waaaahhhh, they ignore everything even though they don't, waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Come on, man. You're better than this. None of us fans "IGNORE" when that stuff happens. We just look at things more in depth than you do and you don't seem to like that. Stop painting with such a broad brush and maybe you'll start to understand where we come from in these debates.

Stop acting like nobody has acknowledged that these great QBs have played poorly at times and that Andy has played excellent games in the past. Nobody "IGNORES" it, we all admit it, you just don't seem to care to acknowledge it. You only see and hear what you want to so that you can cry about this shit and play the "Andy is always the victim" card.

Guys like Matt Ryan aren't ranked above Andy for the reasons you may think. Ryan plays at a medium to great level more consistently than Andy does. That's why he's considered to be a better QB if you want a broad answer. There is a LOT more to it than you care to delve into. This shit is chess, not checkers. The sooner you realize that the better.

[jj22]

^^^^see

Excuses. Interceptions/fumbles etc are what they are. No need to give excuses for them to outside qb. Unless that is, you do the same for Dalton.

Ryan threw some bad picks last night. Picks that would have you slamming Dalton. It's okay to admit it. If you are going to protect any qb as a Bengals fan it should be ours. Clearly you are willing to ignore his play to maintain this idea that he's elite. Just like Eli, just like Stafford, just like Flacco etc. Most of us see it tho. If Dalton made the mistake Eli made.......I can't help to think what would be said about him.

Your post proved my point.

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 09:43 AM)jj22 Wrote: ^^^^see

Excuses. Interceptions/fumbles etc are what they are. No need to give excuses for them to outside qb. Unless that is you do the same for Dalton.

When did I excuse anybody?!? Holy shit. Do you have a reading disability?

I was talking about the past. Their careers.

Matt Ryan is considered a better QB thus far in his career because he's consistently a better QB. You're confused by that and you want everyone screaming from a mountaintop that Matt Ryan sucks ass because he threw an interception.

Do you really not understand the point of my post? You seem upset that people are "ignoring" things whenever they aren't ignoring anything. Aaron Rodgers throws bad passes sometimes, Tom Brady has had some awful games as a pro. Do you want to talk about them? I have no issue discussing anything, you're just sounding like a baby with this victim shit.

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 09:43 AM)jj22 Wrote: Ryan threw some bad picks last night. Picks that would have you slamming Dalton. It's okay to admit it. If you are going to protect any qb as a Bengals fan it should be ours. Clearly you are willing to ignore his play to maintain this idea that he's elite. Just like Eli, just like Stafford, just like Flacco etc. Most of us see it tho.

Dude what the **** are you talking about?

Where did I protect or ignore ANYTHING?

When did I call Eli, Stafford, Flacco, OR Matt Ryan elite??

"omg I'm JJ and Andy is the victim!!!!!!!! STOP IGNORING EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[jj22]

Don't get your panties in a bunch now. Truth hurts.

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 09:51 AM)jj22 Wrote: Don't get your panties in a bunch now. Truth hurts.

Man, you used to make solid points on the old board, did you just come here to troll? Seriously, what is this shit? Why are you acting like this now?

Andy played better in week 1 than almost every QB in the league. You're putting words in my mouth when I've NEVER said Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, or Eli are elite. I've NEVER excused them of anything that I've bashed Andy for.

So just because I said that Matt Ryan is better in his career thus far than Andy has been, that proves your shitty points? Go play your victim bullshit elsewhere, child.

[jj22]

It'll be okay Dj. You can call me all the names you want. It's never bothered me. That's more reflective of you then it is me. Who said I was even talking about you initially to begin with. Anyway my point remains. If you watch Ryan, it isn't just one game, he tends to make those mistakes at bad times and gets a pass for them. Why, cause he's a top pick with a perceived strong arm. Ideal built and that tends to do it. It's why Stafford and Bradford got passes for years. While they were calling for Dalton's head his sophomore year.

[CoCoNuT]

(09-15-2015, 09:53 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Man, you used to make solid points on the old board, did you just come here to troll? Seriously, what is this shit? Why are you acting like this now?

Andy played better in week 1 than almost every QB in the league. You're putting words in my mouth when I've NEVER said Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, or Eli are elite. I've NEVER excused them of anything that I've bashed Andy for.

So just because I said that Matt Ryan is better in his career thus far than Andy has been, that proves your shitty points? Go play your victim bullshit elsewhere, child.

It's a little early for a good 'ol fashion board fight, but man panties in a bunch are not the worse thing in the world. Apparently a lot of NFL players wear them so maybe JJ was just trying to complement your natural competitive spirit?


FYI NO ONE PLAYED BETTER THAN ANDY DALTON WEEK 1! 

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 10:21 AM)jj22 Wrote: It'll be okay Dj. You can call me all the names you want. It's never bothered me. That's more reflective of you then it is me. Who said I was even talking about you initially to begin with. Anyway my point remains. If you watch Ryan, it isn't just one game, he tends to make those mistakes at bad times and gets a pass for them. Why, cause he's a top pic with a perceived strong arm. Ideal built and that tends to do it.

But now you're just lying again.

He doesn't get a "pass" for them. People recognize his turnovers. He's just considered to be a better QB than guys that make those mistakes at a higher rate than he does, and he's considered better because he puts on better performances at a higher rate than some other guys.

Do you comprehend that much at least?