We Might Have Missed BIG Time (2017 Draft)

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-06-2018, 02:58 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: I do not believe in playing the hindsight game.

As for the QB issues.... everyone wants to anoint the young QBs thats stand out as the next big thing because they are a unknown that jump onto the scene.  At the end of the day I really withhold my judgements on QBs till their 4-5th year.  So many rising stars get brought back to reality in their 2nd or 3rd year.

Absolutely !

You can't judge a QB until he has a couple seasons under his belt probably 3 really ? So many things weigh into it. The O'line, the weapons he has, the OC and HC, great D gigving him a lot of favorable field position and so on. 

Mahomes looks for all the world like the real deal and I'd say he is. I wouldn't bet real high on the rest of them though.

[Shake n Blake]

Honestly it's way too soon to declare this a home run move by the Chiefs. People are suggesting that Mahomes is that elite QB to take them to the Super Bowl, but they forget how the Chiefs started last year, with Smith in the early MVP discussion. We also haven't seen Mahomes actually take the Chiefs anywhere they haven't already been. We'll just have to wait and see on that one.

And what if we drafted one of the many busts out there? Then you have a wasted 1st round pick rotting on the bench on a team with a shrinking window.

Plus it's not like Dalton is Flacco. He didn't need a fire lit under his ass, he just needed a line that wasn't historically bad.

[Beaker]

Shouldnt this thread be in the draft forum?

[Bengalsrob]

(10-02-2018, 12:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: Remember when RG3 was the next great QB? How about when Dak was the next great QB? Okay, so let's wait until the sophomore year that notoriously derails QB's to just make sure before we crown him. He has looked good in a short period, but like everything people adapt and adjust. I'm sure someone will reply saying this time is different, but honestly everyone thinks that...until its not.

Side note, the whole looking back at drafts in hindsight thing is pointless. Most people passed on Rodgers, everyone passed on Brady 5 times, everyone passed on Drew Brees. It happens you move on.

Yep, much easier to pick after the fact. I actually wanted Kaepernick when we took Andy. Who knows, Mayfield may be better than all of them in the end; and maybe not. Ross, on the other hand, is a teeny, super fast, but apparently fragile WR who can't seem to keep his head in the game. We got what we have, and it ain't bad, I have personally quit worrying about it...it makes life a lot easier!

[coachmcneil71]

(10-06-2018, 04:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly it's way too soon to declare this a home run move by the Chiefs. People are suggesting that Mahomes is that elite QB to take them to the Super Bowl, but they forget how the Chiefs started last year, with Smith in the early MVP discussion. We also haven't seen Mahomes actually take the Chiefs anywhere they haven't already been. We'll just have to wait and see on that one.

And what if we drafted one of the many busts out there?  Then you have a wasted 1st round  pick rotting on the bench on a team with a shrinking window.

Plus it's not like Dalton is Flacco. He didn't need a fire lit under his ass, he just needed a line that wasn't historically bad.

Looks like a good move thus far, but we all know how that can go. If Hill and or Kelsey were to go down, that offense would be much different. They would try to run the same plays for Conley and the like, but those other pieces arenta nearly as talented as the two I mentioned.

Right now the kid is in a good place and playing well. I find it hard to believe that Im actually typing this, but at this point I like Andy's experience. It's really beginning to show thus far, this season.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-07-2018, 10:20 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Looks like a good move thus far, but we all know how that can go. If Hill and or Kelsey were to go down, that offense would be much different. They would try to run the same plays for Conley and the like, but those other pieces arenta nearly as talented as the two I mentioned.

Right now the kid is in a good place and playing well. I find it hard to believe that Im actually typing this, but at this point I like Andy's experience. It's really beginning to show thus far, this season.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the Chiefs made a mistake. I'm just seeing a lot of people praising KC after 4 games (now 5). I even saw PFT claim KC is destined for multiple SB's. The hype train is out of control. I'm just saying pump the brakes for now, and let's revisit that talk after the season. For all we know, he'll fall off quite a bit and KC will do their typical late season dive.

If that happens, will people still be praising KC as much as they are now? Will people admit that maybe QB wasn't all that held KC back from SB glory?

Just to throw this in, Mahomes went 22/38 with 0 TDs and 2 INTs today. 

[Bengalbug]

(10-07-2018, 08:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just to clarify, I'm not saying the Chiefs made a mistake. I'm just seeing a lot of people praising KC after 4 games (now 5). I even saw PFT claim KC is destined for multiple SB's. The hype train is out of control. I'm just saying pump the brakes for now, and let's revisit that talk after the season. For all we know, he'll fall off quite a bit and KC will do their typical late season dive.

If that happens, will people still be praising KC as much as they are now? Will people admit that maybe QB wasn't all that held KC back from SB glory?

Just to throw this in, Mahomes went 22/38 with 0 TDs and 2 INTs today. 

He also played against the best defense in the NFL.

If you can’t tell this kid is special, well... I don’t know

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-07-2018, 08:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: He also played against the best defense in the NFL.

If you can’t tell this kid is special, well... I don’t know

Bears might have the best defense at this point.

[YsCascadia]

(10-07-2018, 08:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: He also played against the best defense in the NFL.  

If you can’t tell this kid is special, well... I don’t know

This is what drives me nuts with the hype train.

Why is he special?  Cause he makes dumb decisions that have turned out OK?  Throwing passes that DCs salivate over.  He has gotten away with a few things.  The left handed pass, the throwing across his body to the other side of the field, they have worked so people are giving him props.  However if he can be baited to do throws like that then they will lead to disaster.  He should've had a few more INTs against Denver, and lucky for him they were dropped.

I am impressed with what the kid has done so far and he will continue to give the NFL highlight reels, however you have to pump the brakes with the "special" talk since, as others have stated, he hasn't done anything that KC hasn't done in previous years.  Can he throw the ball far?  Yep, does he have accuracy?  Yep.  He also takes risk.  Everyone is fine when those risk pay off.  If they lead to multiple losses at the worst time, then people will move on from him.

[Bengalbug]

(10-07-2018, 09:00 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: This is what drives me nuts with the hype train.

Why is he special?  Cause he makes dumb decisions that have turned out OK?  Throwing passes that DCs salivate over.  He has gotten away with a few things.  The left handed pass, the throwing across his body to the other side of the field, they have worked so people are giving him props.  However if he can be baited to do throws like that then they will lead to disaster.  He should've had a few more INTs against Denver, and lucky for him they were dropped.

I am impressed with what the kid has done so far and he will continue to give the NFL highlight reels, however you have to pump the brakes with the "special" talk since, as others have stated, he hasn't done anything that KC hasn't done in previous years.  Can he throw the ball far?  Yep, does he have accuracy?  Yep.  He also takes risk.  Everyone is fine when those risk pay off.  If they lead to multiple losses at the worst time, then people will move on from him.

He makes throws that 95% of the qbs cant.

That’s not hype. That’s just me watching him

[Shake n Blake]

(10-07-2018, 08:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: He also played against the best defense in the NFL.  

If you can’t tell this kid is special, well... I don’t know

Meh. Elite QB's often overcome elite defenses and don't always go 22/38 with 0 TDs and 2 picks.

Next time Andy throws a couple picks against an elite defense, I'll have to remember this.

"It wasn't his fault he faced a great defense!"

(10-07-2018, 09:18 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: He makes throws that 95% of the qbs cant.

That’s not hype.  That’s just me watching him

Carson also made throws 95% of QB's couldn't make. Never won a damn thing and often made dumb decisions. 

There's more to it than arm, and that's what some don't seem to realize. I'm not sure why so many people who seem intelligent look at QB's in such a primitive way.

Just to clarify, I like Mahomes. He seems like an awesome kid. I just remember this same hype train with Deshaun Watson and Jimmy G last year. Or Colin Kaepernick and RGIII (everyone was IN LOVE with the athleticism) a few years back. My how quickly people forget. Maybe Mahomes IS special...but I've heard that about a lot of QB's through the years when guys were saying we should dump Dalton. Maybe this one will actually work out.

[Joelist]

Mahomes is just the latest NFL hype train candidate. Like DeShaun Watson - I watched him tonight and it wasn't pretty. The Texans basically won on their defense having its way with the Dallas OL as corrupted by Piano Man.

[YsCascadia]

(10-07-2018, 09:18 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: He makes throws that 95% of the qbs cant.

That’s not hype.  That’s just me watching him

For now.

What will happen when he is being baited into those throws and has more INTs than TDs?

The reason guys like, RGIII, Kaepernick, Watson, Prescott, Bridgewater and others are no longer the darlings is because they couldn't keep making the throws that are costly.  Mahomes SHOULD appear special right now.  He has had some easier outings than it appears.  I wonder which is harder, playing Jags in Jacksonville or in KC?  Who is a better HC, Jeff Fisher or Andy Reid?  Who is a better playmaker, Hill or Ross?  Better security blanket, Kelce or Eifert?

I could go on, but the point is simple.  With everything around Mahomes, he should be doing the things he is doing.  I keep hearing how Dalton needs players and the right circumstances to be successful,  I argue every QB needs that.  Mahomes is benefiting off of the situation he is in.  Wilson did the same and now look at Seattle, no legion of boom, no OLine, no TE, no WR, no Beast Mode.  The shine has dulled on the SB win and close repeat, Wilson is no longer the super star QB they were claiming him to be.  Can he dazzle with some good plays?  Yep, but he hasn't produced the Wins that he was getting earlier in his career.

[thillan]

Well, that was fun to witness. Ross did nothing, while Mahomes played at an MVP level.

[*Synric*]

(10-22-2018, 01:04 AM)thillan Wrote: Well, that was fun to witness. Ross did nothing, while Mahomes played at an MVP level.

Mahomes had a fantastic game and a fantastic season....but I'd rather have Andy Reid.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Reid would never put up with Mikey

[thillan]

(10-22-2018, 01:11 AM)Synric Wrote: Mahomes had a fantastic game and a fantastic season....but I'd rather have Andy Reid.

True, though he hasn't really done much in the postseason either. 

I lived near the KC area, and how many fans thought of their team was pretty much the same as we think of ours. Can be competitive but gets beat by better teams when it counts, loses in 1st round of playoffs even when they are a better team, and don't seem to be able to string together a dominate season.

How a young QB changes things.

I guess we have to keep waiting until the league "figures Mahomes out." Only way that happens is if you put a horrible O-line and bad talent around him.

[MentalRage]

While I do think Mahomes will be a really damn good QB for a long time, I don't think he would be the same player if the Bengals drafted him.

Do we really think Marvin Lewis and Ken Zampese/Bill Lazor would get the most out of Mahomes like Reid has so far? I certainly don't. Time will tell whether or not he is as good as advertised but there is zero chance he'd perform as well if Marvin was his coach.

[impactplaya]

Mahomes and Reid are a perfect marriage.
he allows Reid to keep on adding to the playbook
starting on Monday.
Mahomes can process coverage like a 5 yr vet.
and hes still learning.
yeah we missed out in a HOF talent qb

[thillan]

(10-22-2018, 11:23 AM)MentalRage Wrote: While I do think Mahomes will be a really damn good QB for a long time, I don't think he would be the same player if the Bengals drafted him.

Do we really think Marvin Lewis and Ken Zampese/Bill Lazor would get the most out of Mahomes like Reid has so far? I certainly don't. Time will tell whether or not he is as good as advertised but there is zero chance he'd perform as well if Marvin was his coach.

While I agree that I don't think he'd be putting up the same numbers, I think he'd be a major upgrade. The guy has rare arm talent, and is so dang mobile for his size. Unreal potential.

Oh well. We get to enjoy watching other teams explode onto the scene, while we struggle to keep up. Wish we had our 2015 squad this year!