Another change that needs to happen

[JungleRock85]

(01-16-2019, 07:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: For me a lot of the moves made by the final four teams are looked back at more fondly than when they make them. No one was clapping for the Tams for signing CJ Anderson when they did it. Kyle Van Noy was a bit of a throw away when the Patriots signed him but he’s been productive. Sure there have been a couple big name ones that worked but a lot of their signings were Preston Brown types or lower they just have the luxury of looking at them favorably after the team won.

CJ Anderson was not a big move since it took place in season which is why I didn’t mention that one but picking up Whitworth, Talib, Cooks, Suh, Fowler, and the trade up for Goff is HUGE part of their team and since we are hiring a guy from the Rams staff then hopefully that is who we try to emulate.

[hotweales]

(01-16-2019, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm pretty sure that you can point to at least 1 impactful FA acquisition that the Patriots did every year they have gone to a Super Bowl. They aren't always the highest profile guys, but there's always at least one who plays really well and makes a difference.

They will pilfer Erickson from the Bengals next!

[CornerBlitz]

I'd be shocked if the Bengals are aggressive in free agency. I highly doubt it will happen; MB doesn't want to spend the money.

[XsandOs]

(01-16-2019, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm pretty sure that you can point to at least 1 impactful FA acquisition that the Patriots did every year they have gone to a Super Bowl. They aren't always the highest profile guys, but there's always at least one who plays really well and makes a difference.

Every NE Super Bowl win has been with a RB that was drafted by another Team.

Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon and LeGarret Blount were all drafted by someone else.

They do the same with their WRs (Welker, Cooks, Moss, Amendola, etc.)

They are very active in FA. Harrison, Vrabel, Seau, Gilmore, Revis, etc were all FA signings.

[Atomic Orange]

Yeah we need that and a great HC it seems.

[Bronxbengal]

(01-17-2019, 12:39 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Every NE Super Bowl win has been with a RB that was drafted by another Team.

Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon and LeGarret Blount were all drafted by someone else.

They do the same with their WRs (Welker, Cooks, Moss, Amendola, etc.)

They are very active in FA. Harrison, Vrabel, Seau, Gilmore, Revis, etc were all FA signings.

So the question is what does NE do with their draft picks? I get irritated the Bengals put strong emphasis using higher draft picks on skilled positions like WR and RB. I think the Patriots put more emphasis on linemen, LB and TE but someone should verify


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[*SHRacerX*]

(01-16-2019, 05:50 PM)mon4078 Wrote: I think you build your core through the draft but you have to bring in some key free agents every few years to get you over the hump. The problem we have is we have a few bad drafts the have hurt the core group and our star players are getting older.

This.  The wfiff on Ogbuehi and Fisher draft forced the Bengals to basically do a re-do this past year, getting the LT and C they needed.  They STILL struggled at RT so that whiff isn't totally off the books just yet.

One thing I hope that would happen by adopting a bit more aggressive stance in FA is that the current players on the roster might sense that they are always fighting for their jobs.  I believe the Pats do this best....always making small upgrades and never overpaying.  They will cut average and bring in slightly above average to improve the position.  

I don't know if I am making any sense, but it seems there are far too many Bengals with jobs that should be afraid of losing their jobs.  The release of Iloka was such a surprise because it seemed so anti-Bengal, but it made the team better. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-17-2019, 08:50 AM)Bronxbengal Wrote: So the question is what does NE do with their draft picks?  I get irritated the Bengals put  strong emphasis using higher draft picks on skilled positions like WR and RB.  I think the Patriots put more emphasis on linemen, LB and TE but someone should verify


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They spend some picks on skill positions. Gronk and Michel are the obvious ones. But they use most of them on the OL and front seven. 
All of their starting OL except for their LT was drafted by them. And their LT (Trent Brown) was just a 7th round pick by the 49ers a few years ago who was traded to the Patriots after Nate Solder left in FA last year.
Out of their front seven, they drafted everyone except for Lawrence Guy.

[Atomic Orange]

(01-17-2019, 09:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  The wfiff on Ogbuehi and Fisher draft forced the Bengals to basically do a re-do this past year, getting the LT and C they needed.  They STILL struggled at RT so that whiff isn't totally off the books just yet.

One thing I hope that would happen by adopting a bit more aggressive stance in FA is that the current players on the roster might sense that they are always fighting for their jobs.  I believe the Pats do this best....always making small upgrades and never overpaying.  They will cut average and bring in slightly above average to improve the position.  

I don't know if I am making any sense, but it seems there are far too many Bengals with jobs that should be afraid of losing their jobs.  The release of Iloka was such a surprise because it seemed so anti-Bengal, but it made the team better. 

I believe they whiffed as well but did they or were they just terrible at coaching up high draft picks thus ruining them forever? I have a hard time believing all three players are that bad. I mean you would think we could at least get "decent" out of them. And then the new guys we brought in weren't that great either.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2019, 11:26 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I believe they whiffed as well but did they or were they just terrible at coaching up high draft picks thus ruining them forever? I have a hard time believing all three players are that bad. I mean you would think we could at least get "decent" out of them. And then the new guys we brought in weren't that great either.

It's possible, I guess, but even with Pollack they went in a different direction (and Hart isn't an overwhelming talent to lose a spot to).  Ogbuehi had a lot of knocks coming out of college and Fisher came out of the Oregon offense where it is a one-read, ball-out playing style.  

[HarleyDog]

(01-17-2019, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: They spend some picks on skill positions. Gronk and Michel are the obvious ones. But they use most of them on the OL and front seven. 
All of their starting OL except for their LT was drafted by them. And their LT (Trent Brown) was just a 7th round pick by the 49ers a few years ago who was traded to the Patriots after Nate Solder left in FA last year.
Out of their front seven, they drafted everyone except for Lawrence Guy.

The lineman are key positions and I think MB has not ranked their importance highly enough in past years. Trying to hit home run draft picks in QB,RB & WR positions, even if they are a gem, sometimes you just have a team that sucks but a few players get a lot of fantasy points and fanfare but that’s all. Makes sense why NE does what they do. Makes your 2nd and 3rd strings more serviceable because of the support surrounding them.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-18-2019, 08:57 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: The lineman are key positions and I think MB has not ranked their importance highly enough in past years. Trying to hit home run draft picks in QB,RB & WR positions, even if they are a gem, sometimes you just have a team that sucks but a few players get a lot of fantasy points and fanfare but that’s all. Makes sense why NE does what they do. Makes your 2nd and 3rd strings more serviceable because of the support surrounding them.

Ehh, they drafted lineman in the first round in 15 and 18, with 15 being back to back o-line picks. I don't think they don't value them, but they have just missed on them more than they've hit. They get either Fish or OG to be at least a serviceable starter, things look a lot better. But the 15 whiff just makes it look a lot worse than it really is. And not getting a late round gem to pan out like some other teams have kinda hurts. It would be nice to find a Jason Kelce, Seantrel Henderson in the later rounds.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2019, 09:54 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Ehh, they drafted lineman in the first round in 15 and 18, with 15 being back to back o-line picks. I don't think they don't value them, but they have just missed on them more than they've hit. They get either Fish or OG to be at least a serviceable starter, things look a lot better. But the 15 whiff just makes it look a lot worse than it really is. And not getting a late round gem to pan out like some other teams have kinda hurts. It would be nice to find a Jason Kelce, Seantrel Henderson in the later rounds.

Yep. What hurt the franchise the past few years were the selections of players who were more potential-based that needed some good coaching rather than getting guys who were more NFL-ready. And then the part they failed at was developing those players. This was especially evident with the OL and LBs. Coaches whose methods were bad and/or outdated.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-18-2019, 08:57 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: The lineman are key positions and I think MB has not ranked their importance highly enough in past years. Trying to hit home run draft picks in QB,RB & WR positions, even if they are a gem, sometimes you just have a team that sucks but a few players get a lot of fantasy points and fanfare but that’s all. Makes sense why NE does what they do. Makes your 2nd and 3rd strings more serviceable because of the support surrounding them.

I think they were doing really well in the lineman category for a while (Levi Jones, Andrew Whitworth, Zeitler, Boling, Andre Smith, Willie Anderson) but when it came time to have replacements ready (something they were proactive about) the drafting of Ogbuehi and Fisher were huge misses.

If even one of those two panned out at LT, we would have been much, much better off.   They wouldn't have had to make the move on Glenn and maybe they draft a guard or go after one in FA.  

But they did miss....big time.  Now they have Glenn but need a RT.  And likely a player to try and develop behind Glenn.  A lot is going to depend on what is available in the draft but I STILL go with the duo of Westerman and Redmond at RG because i feel the run blocking behind them is pretty solid, but the pass blocking suffers with Hart on the outside of them.  I know Redmond had a ton of penalties, but as a rookie, he did show drive blocking ability.  Put a superior talent at RT and I think the line soars in year two under Pollack and with a better scheme. 

[JungleRock85]

(01-18-2019, 10:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think they were doing really well in the lineman category for a while (Levi Jones, Andrew Whitworth, Zeitler, Boling, Andre Smith, Willie Anderson) but when it came time to have replacements ready (something they were proactive about) the drafting of Ogbuehi and Fisher were huge misses.

If even one of those two panned out at LT, we would have been much, much better off.   They wouldn't have had to make the move on Glenn and maybe they draft a guard or go after one in FA.  

But they did miss....big time.  Now they have Glenn but need a RT.  And likely a player to try and develop behind Glenn.  A lot is going to depend on what is available in the draft but I STILL go with the duo of Westerman and Redmond at RG because i feel the run blocking behind them is pretty solid, but the pass blocking suffers with Hart on the outside of them.  I know Redmond had a ton of penalties, but as a rookie, he did show drive blocking ability.  Put a superior talent at RT and I think the line soars in year two under Pollack and with a better scheme. 

Pollack is gone now but I agree that the biggest need by far on the line is Right Tackle. I would give Westerman an actual shot to win the job at Right Guard this year unless someone they like falls to them in the mid rounds at Guard.

[grampahol]

The Antonio Bryant fiasco made the Bengals super gun shy with free agency. I'm not truly convinced they've ever gotten over it. 

[SladeX]

Mike Brown sure has trouble getting past things . His dad's firing keading to unwillingness to part ways with coaches, whiffing on a FA or two leading to timidity in FA. I wonder if he didn't have to, would he even draft anyone? Geez louise. If he over flosses one time, does he stop brushing his teeth? Brain freeze eating ice cream, no more Ben an Jerry's? Where does the madness end?