ND Mom was right

[Beaker]

A mother of 4 boys wrote a letter about girls wearing leggings and was flamed by most on social media. This woman thinks she was correct:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-mom-upset-over-leggings-at-notre-dame-was-right

I agree with this assessment from her:

"Are women entitled to wear what they please? Absolutely. But they're not entitled to wear what they please and then demand everyone in their midst pretend they don't notice."

[*michaelsean*]

Quote:So do tank tops worn in the manner I saw this past weekend, when I had difficulty focusing on the face of the waitress who served my husband and me. Her breasts and her cleavage were so purposefully accentuated that my eyes naturally gravitated in that direction.

Well it's called Hooters for a reason.

I agree. Wear what you want, but then don't get offended if people are looking.

[Au165]

No, she (ND Mom) isn't right. Her last paragraph opens with the below line, and that basically sums up the real motive and why she got all the backlash she got.

"Could you think of the mothers of sons the next time you go shopping and consider choosing jeans instead?"

[XenoMorph]

(04-03-2019, 10:10 AM)Au165 Wrote: No, she (ND Mom) isn't right. Her last paragraph opens with the below line, and that basically sums up the real motive and why she got all the backlash she got.

"Could you think of the mothers of sons the next time you go shopping and consider choosing jeans instead?"

dude I have seen things that cant be unseen...  I would like women to wear actual pants not yoga pants outside of yoga class cause most of these people wearing them have never done yoga.   (also leggings are worn under something not as pants.)


I will say though those things seem to be able to hold in ungodly amounts of flesh.

[fredtoast]

(04-03-2019, 12:18 AM)Beaker Wrote: "Are women entitled to wear what they please? Absolutely. But they're not entitled to wear what they please and then demand everyone in their midst pretend they don't notice.

What does "pretend they don't notice" mean?

Not grab their asses?

Not call them whores?

Not start behaving inappropriately in public?

[sandwedge]

(04-03-2019, 10:28 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: dude I have seen things that cant be unseen...  I would like women to wear actual pants not yoga pants outside of yoga class cause most of these people wearing them have never done yoga.   (also leggings are worn under something not as pants.)


I will say though those things seem to be able to hold in ungodly amounts of flesh.

You got that right! 

[Beaker]

You simply cannot dismiss basic biology. Men are visual in respect to sexuality. If a woman wears clothing that accentuates or reveals more of her body, men will immediately be aware....every time. That does not mean that they will (or should) act upon their basic instincts, but primally driven thoughts will occur. I agree that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. But to claim that men shouldn't notice, or that they will not be distracted by seeing women dressed certain ways is dismissive of nature. Yes, they can control themselves, and are to blame if they don't, but they will all still look at a woman dressed that way and have sexual thoughts just as their biology dictates.

[HarleyDog]

(04-06-2019, 01:50 PM)Beaker Wrote: You simply cannot dismiss basic biology. Men are visual in respect to sexuality. If a woman wears clothing that accentuates or reveals more of her body, men will immediately be aware....every time. That does not mean that they will (or should) act upon their basic instincts, but primally driven thoughts will occur. I agree that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. But to claim that men shouldn't notice, or that they will not be distracted by seeing women dressed certain ways is dismissive of nature. Yes, they can control themselves, and are to blame if they don't, but they will all still look at a woman dressed that way and have sexual thoughts just as their biology dictates.

Your right. When I was in puberty years, there would be situations where I would get an erection when I didn’t want one. I prayed it would happen, I tried for it not to happen by thinking of negative things with no success. But a simple thing like cleavage was a bad situation for the dog. Nothing worse than having a hot teacher ask you to the board and you can’t get up, because you were already standing. It wasn’t my fault. I was doing everything to prevent it. Never really had an issue with girls who wore long, loose dresses to the ankles.

Most women dress to be noticed. The don’t prefer or wish to be boring. Might be why some don’t wear the same clothes twice to an event or meeting. They want to be noticed, but not with a boner. It’s wierd that some can be offended by the very thing they create. Oh well, can’t hate who we are just because a few do.

[fredtoast]

(04-06-2019, 01:50 PM)Beaker Wrote: You simply cannot dismiss basic biology. Men are visual in respect to sexuality. If a woman wears clothing that accentuates or reveals more of her body, men will immediately be aware....every time. That does not mean that they will (or should) act upon their basic instincts, but primally driven thoughts will occur. I agree that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. But to claim that men shouldn't notice, or that they will not be distracted by seeing women dressed certain ways is dismissive of nature. Yes, they can control themselves, and are to blame if they don't, but they will all still look at a woman dressed that way and have sexual thoughts just as their biology dictates.

Agree with all of this.  But have to add that other women actually pay more attention to what women wear than men do.  I remember what was showing, but I do not remember specific outfits like other women will.

Women dress to impress other women.

[Benton]

(04-06-2019, 02:15 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: When I was in puberty years, there would be situations where I would get an erection when I didn’t want one.

Hell, for me it didn't take women to be around. Still doesn't. I'll just randomly start thinking about boobs and Bam.

As to the op, I disagree. Everyone thinks they know how everyone else should live, what is acceptable for everyone else to say. Stop it, the universe doesn't revolve around you. If you dont like chicks wearing yoga pants.... Don't look. Avert your eyes and worry about your dang self.


If 99% of the people realized it's not just their world, we'd be a lot better off.

[jfkbengals]

(04-06-2019, 01:50 PM)Beaker Wrote: You simply cannot dismiss basic biology. Men are visual in respect to sexuality. If a woman wears clothing that accentuates or reveals more of her body, men will immediately be aware....every time. That does not mean that they will (or should) act upon their basic instincts, but primally driven thoughts will occur. I agree that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. But to claim that men shouldn't notice, or that they will not be distracted by seeing women dressed certain ways is dismissive of nature. Yes, they can control themselves, and are to blame if they don't, but they will all still look at a woman dressed that way and have sexual thoughts just as their biology dictates.

Only when their are trained by society that a woman's body is taboo to show.

There are plenty of places where young boys are subjected to breasts or nudity at a young age and don't react that way.  Be it tribal cultures or places in South America or around the Mediterranean, they don't have a reaction to women the way men and boys in the U.S. do because they have been subjected to it all their lives.

[Beaker]

(04-06-2019, 09:46 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Only when their are trained by society that a woman's body is taboo to show.

There are plenty of places where young boys are subjected to breasts or nudity at a young age and don't react that way.  Be it tribal cultures or places in South America or around the Mediterranean, they don't have a reaction to women the way men and boys in the U.S. do because they have been subjected to it all their lives.

You're claiming to know the thoughts of those males in other cultures. They may not be distracted by boobs because they are used to seeing them every day. Different cultures consider different things to be sexual or arousing. So how do you know what they are thinking, or the degree to which they notice or are distracted, when females of their culture dress in a way that accentuates the things that make them look sexy in their culture? It is still basic male biology to be visually stimulated by females....whatever your culture determines that stimulus to be. 

The ND mom simply wrote that leggings were distracting to boys and asked if women might take that into consideration when choosing what to wear. If you think about it, nothing was truly wrong or inaccurate about either of those. She was ASKING women to consider....not demanding it, or calling for a dress code. The woman who wrote the article I posted was contending that the ND mom was not wrong and did not deserve the flaming she was getting on social media.  

As a teacher, I took interest in the debate because I see and deal with it on a daily basis. Bottom line....the boys notice. And just like the girls should not be shamed for choosing to wear leggings, the boys should not be expected not to notice. They should be expected to be able to handle it with proper decorum, but not to not notice. Trust me, teenage boys are distracted when cute girls are wearing pants that leave very little to the imagination about what those body parts look like when not covered.

[fredtoast]

Leggings are not different from tight jeans or a snug sweater. If a boy is going to be distarcted by the female body it does not have to be in leggings.

So where do we draw the line? How could ND mom object to leggings and not tight jeans or t-shirt. What about not wearing a bra?

[*Synric*]

Would this mean I wouldnt be allowed to wear my Friday Night Bar jeans that makes my junk look bigger?

[Beaker]

(04-07-2019, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Leggings are not different from tight jeans or a snug sweater.  If a boy is going to be distarcted by the female body it does not have to be in leggings.

So where do we draw the line?  How could ND mom object to leggings and not tight jeans or t-shirt.  What about not wearing a bra?

Firstly, I disagree, leggings are way more form fitting than most other clothes. Secondly, It isn't about drawing any lines. She was simply asking girls to consider their choices for different situations like classrooms and church, vs going out to a party or club. She said women are free to do as they choose. 

I think too many people who flamed her came with the "I'll do whatever I want and you won't tell me otherwise" attitude, when a "let's have an open discussion about the realness of this" would have been a better way to look at it.

[Beaker]

(04-07-2019, 02:43 PM)Synric Wrote: Would this mean I wouldnt be allowed to wear my Friday Night Bar jeans that makes my junk look bigger?

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2019, 03:52 PM)Beaker Wrote:  She was simply asking girls to consider their choices for different situations like classrooms and church, vs going out to a party or club. She said women are free to do as they choose. 

Yes.  I know what she asked.  My question is "What is tha harm?"

We all agree that peoples rights can be limited if there is smoe sort of harm to be prevented.  So If you are going to suggest women limit thie wardrobe you have to be able to tell them "Why".

So what is the harm?

[Beaker]

(04-07-2019, 04:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  I know what she asked.  My question is "What is tha harm?"

We all agree that peoples rights can be limited if there is smoe sort of harm to be prevented.  So If you are going to suggest women limit thie wardrobe you have to be able to tell them "Why".

So what is the harm?

Again, who is speaking of limiting anyone's rights? Considering when to wear different outfits is hardly limiting of rights. Most people of either sex have to consider their attire choices every day. And each time you usually have to consider how you will be perceived by others. As a lawyer, you have attire that's appropriate for the courtroom, for working in your office, or working in your yard. Taking into consideration how you will be viewed in each of those situations is not limiting your rights. 

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2019, 11:22 PM)Beaker Wrote: Again, who is speaking of limiting anyone's rights? Considering when to wear different outfits is hardly limiting of rights. Most people of either sex have to consider their attire choices every day. And each time you usually have to consider how you will be perceived by others. As a lawyer, you have attire that's appropriate for the courtroom, for working in your office, or working in your yard. Taking into consideration how you will be viewed in each of those situations is not limiting your rights. 

Maybe "rights" is not the correct term, but whatever you call it ND mom is trying to control someone else's decisions.

When you tell someone they can not do what they want to do you should provide a reason  Girls should be allowed to wear leggings unless you can give them a reason not to.  If all you have is "distracting" then we are headed down the road to burkas.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-06-2019, 09:46 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Only when their are trained by society that a woman's body is taboo to show.

There are plenty of places where young boys are subjected to breasts or nudity at a young age and don't react that way.  Be it tribal cultures or places in South America or around the Mediterranean, they don't have a reaction to women the way men and boys in the U.S. do because they have been subjected to it all their lives.

Which is why the statement that was said on, "Eurotrip," is super apt, even today: