Okay is everyone done crying and moaning?

[*jason*]

So... In summation; we are not done crying and moaning.

[THE Bigzoman]

Meh, there’s a pretty big difference between expressing heat of the moment frustration in a gameday thread and constantly bringing negativity in thread after thread.

That said, idgaf what you all post. Personally, I’ve had the season written off as below .500 WITh Williams.

Not really sure if I’m just done with football in general. I’ll still follow the team, I just think the Dalton Green era is on its last legs and i’m ready for the next generation.

Bye Dalton and Green. Hello Tua and Joe.

[THE Bigzoman]

(07-03-2019, 10:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And I have never seen "fans" try so hard to shit on wins by their own team.

Bengals win a close game it is all "luck".  Bengals lose a close game it is because Bengals suck.

Bengals win over Colts doesn't count because Luck was recoverying from an injury, but when Bengals lose players to injury it does not matter because "every team has injuries".

But that stretch in particular was lucky as hell.

I’ll give you the Colts and Ravens. Bengals just played better.

But flukey turnovers gave us the W against Miami, Atlanta’s defense was non existent and it still took a dumb ass rookie mistake to sneak out with a W.

Should’ve been 2 and 2.

[Joelist]

(07-07-2019, 04:31 PM)jason Wrote: So... In summation; we are not done crying and moaning.

Just shows its easier to live in the past and cry and moan about things you have no control over than to look forward and wait to see what the new staff presents us. We'll get a good preview in just a few weeks as preseason starts up. 

[*jason*]

(07-07-2019, 04:48 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: But that stretch in particular was lucky as hell.

I’ll give you the Colts and Ravens. Bengals just played better.

But flukey turnovers gave us the W against Miami, Atlanta’s defense was non existent and it still took a dumb ass rookie mistake to sneak out with a W.

Should’ve been 2 and 2.

Are turnovers flukey when the Bengals commit them?

[samhain]

(07-06-2019, 05:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: That’s dismal. How can you judge ZT already when he hasn’t coached a game for the Bengals yet? If you go by his past, then you may have trust issues in people, like they don’t learn and grow. I think ZT will come in and show us what it’s like to be competitive in the NFL. He’s been praised by his peers for his intelligence.

Too many people give up too easy and lose hope. That’s not a cheap shot by any means at you, but the negative feedback on whatever this team does to try and get better is baffling. If ZT walks in and stinks up the house, then so be it. At least we tried to fix what hasn’t been working for 16yrs.

I just hope that if he doesn’t do well as HC, that we don’t hang on more than 3-4. I would like to feel the joy of a SB before I die.

I think they almost have to give him 3-4 years.  If they are as bad as I think they'll be, he should get to pick his own quarterback and get a shot to groom him,  That's how he made his name.  Beyond that, he'll officially be in a rebuilding phase and will need to stock the roster with players he sees as ideal for his system.

Since free agency won't be used in any meaningful way to do this, it's going to take more than a couple of offseasons to build a roster.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-07-2019, 06:17 PM)Joelist Wrote: Just shows its easier to live in the past and cry and moan about things you have no control over than to look forward and wait to see what the new staff presents us. We'll get a good preview in just a few weeks as preseason starts up. 

We had $50+ million in cap space and spent most of it and didn't really feel major needs.

You can talk about the new staff all you want, but free agency and the draft was same old.

Remember how Marvin brought in a new DC last year and a new offensive line coach? Didn't see to help us improve. You need talent to win in the NFL. The concept that coaches can do something with nothing is a forum myth.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-07-2019, 07:04 PM)samhain Wrote: I think they almost have to give him 3-4 years.  If they are as bad as I think they'll be, he should get to pick his own quarterback and get a shot to groom him,  That's how he made his name.  Beyond that, he'll officially be in a rebuilding phase and will need to stock the roster with players he sees as ideal for his system.

Since free agency won't be used in any meaningful way to do this, it's going to take more than a couple of offseasons to build a roster.

The bad part of a rebuild, is guys like Green and Atkins only have probably 2-3 years left being elite. If that. We really could be stuck in a bad spot for quite some time if this season goes bad.

[BengalsRocker]

(07-07-2019, 11:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We had $50+ million in cap space and spent most of it and didn't really feel major needs.

You can talk about the new staff all you want, but free agency and the draft was same old.

Remember how Marvin brought in a new DC last year and a new offensive line coach? Didn't see to help us improve. You need talent to win in the NFL. The concept that coaches can do something with nothing is a forum myth.

The past is known.

The present is known.

The future anyone can guess.

A slightly educated guess points to not doing enough to improve the team in roster spots and unforeseen medical issues hindering the team entering the season.

As far as coaching goes it's a big question mark.

So there is nothing wrong with assessing 2018 roster from the past, and the current situation the front office has failed to address at the moment.

There is a strong reason to be concerned without donning the rosey Bengal glasses of blind faith.

[Whatever]

(07-07-2019, 11:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We had $50+ million in cap space and spent most of it and didn't really feel major needs.

You can talk about the new staff all you want, but free agency and the draft was same old.

Remember how Marvin brought in a new DC last year and a new offensive line coach? Didn't see to help us improve. You need talent to win in the NFL. The concept that coaches can do something with nothing is a forum myth.

The Bengals were much better at run blocking last year and improved from 19th to 12th in sacks allowed.  I don't see how anyone can try to argue that they didn't improve.  

You need talent, but you also need coaching.  On top of that, you need talented players that fit your scheme.  There are reasons why numerous free agents change teams every year and either improve or fall flat on their faces.  You have the attitude that a player's PFF rating is like a Madden rating and you can just plug them into your system and they'll produce at the same rate.  It doesn't work like that.  Marvin was fired because they didn't feel like players were playing to their talent level.  If you think Marvin was getting the most out of the roster he was given, then you should think that he should have kept his job.  Why were we having great drafts when Gruden and Zimmer were here, but they suddenly got worse as those guys left?  The draft process didn't change.  

Cincinnati is never going to be a desired high end FA destination.  If that's what you want out of your team's off season, you should probably pick another team to cheer for, cuz it isn't happening here no matter how many threads you start about it.

We aren't going to know what we have until they start playing real games.  Taylor could be Sean McVay or he could be David Shula.  We could be 4-12 or 12-4.

[grampahol]

If someone could invent glasses that actually make your team win every game every time they'd be overnight trillionaires..  That said...I'm getting my Walmart optical department coupons ready as you read this..
Actually I get my glasses at the VA.. 1 free pair per year.. yey.. I've never had a pair of glasses that make me look like I should wear glasses.. lol

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-07-2019, 11:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We had $50+ million in cap space and spent most of it and didn't really feel major needs.

You can talk about the new staff all you want, but free agency and the draft was same old.

Remember how Marvin brought in a new DC last year and a new offensive line coach? Didn't see to help us improve. You need talent to win in the NFL. The concept that coaches can do something with nothing is a forum myth.

......but no one has said that, and this team's roster, while depleted, is a ways from "nothing".  Also, the notion that coaching doesn't matter that much is a HUGE forum myth.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-07-2019, 11:56 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The past is known.

The present is known.

The future anyone can guess.

A slightly educated guess points to not doing enough to improve the team in roster spots and unforeseen medical issues hindering the team entering the season.

As far as coaching goes it's a big question mark.

So there is nothing wrong with assessing 2018 roster from the past, and the current situation the front office has failed to address at the moment.

There is a strong reason to be concerned without donning the rosey Bengal glasses of blind faith.

This pretty much the way it is, this could just as easily succeed as it could fail.  What I go off of is what his peers have said about him, the fact that he has been a part of a SB run, and he's providing a positive and upbeat younger approach that should resonate with his players.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-08-2019, 12:39 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals were much better at run blocking last year and improved from 19th to 12th in sacks allowed.  I don't see how anyone can try to argue that they didn't improve.  

You need talent, but you also need coaching.  On top of that, you need talented players that fit your scheme.  There are reasons why numerous free agents change teams every year and either improve or fall flat on their faces.  You have the attitude that a player's PFF rating is like a Madden rating and you can just plug them into your system and they'll produce at the same rate.  It doesn't work like that.  Marvin was fired because they didn't feel like players were playing to their talent level.  If you think Marvin was getting the most out of the roster he was given, then you should think that he should have kept his job.  Why were we having great drafts when Gruden and Zimmer were here, but they suddenly got worse as those guys left?  The draft process didn't change.  

Cincinnati is never going to be a desired high end FA destination.  If that's what you want out of your team's off season, you should probably pick another team to cheer for, cuz it isn't happening here no matter how many threads you start about it.

We aren't going to know what we have until they start playing real games.  Taylor could be Sean McVay or he could be David Shula.  We could be 4-12 or 12-4.

Right on. :andy:

[sandwedge]

(07-08-2019, 12:39 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals were much better at run blocking last year and improved from 19th to 12th in sacks allowed.  I don't see how anyone can try to argue that they didn't improve.  

You need talent, but you also need coaching.  On top of that, you need talented players that fit your scheme.  There are reasons why numerous free agents change teams every year and either improve or fall flat on their faces.  You have the attitude that a player's PFF rating is like a Madden rating and you can just plug them into your system and they'll produce at the same rate.  It doesn't work like that.  Marvin was fired because they didn't feel like players were playing to their talent level.  If you think Marvin was getting the most out of the roster he was given, then you should think that he should have kept his job.  Why were we having great drafts when Gruden and Zimmer were here, but they suddenly got worse as those guys left?  The draft process didn't change.  

Cincinnati is never going to be a desired high end FA destination.  If that's what you want out of your team's off season, you should probably pick another team to cheer for, cuz it isn't happening here no matter how many threads you start about it.

We aren't going to know what we have until they start playing real games.  Taylor could be Sean McVay or he could be David Shula.  We could be 4-12 or 12-4.

Best post in this whole stupid thread! Lol

[THE PISTONS]

(07-08-2019, 12:39 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals were much better at run blocking last year and improved from 19th to 12th in sacks allowed.  I don't see how anyone can try to argue that they didn't improve.  

You need talent, but you also need coaching.  On top of that, you need talented players that fit your scheme.  There are reasons why numerous free agents change teams every year and either improve or fall flat on their faces.  You have the attitude that a player's PFF rating is like a Madden rating and you can just plug them into your system and they'll produce at the same rate.  It doesn't work like that.  Marvin was fired because they didn't feel like players were playing to their talent level.  If you think Marvin was getting the most out of the roster he was given, then you should think that he should have kept his job.  Why were we having great drafts when Gruden and Zimmer were here, but they suddenly got worse as those guys left?  The draft process didn't change.  

Cincinnati is never going to be a desired high end FA destination.  If that's what you want out of your team's off season, you should probably pick another team to cheer for, cuz it isn't happening here no matter how many threads you start about it.

We aren't going to know what we have until they start playing real games.  Taylor could be Sean McVay or he could be David Shula.  We could be 4-12 or 12-4.

PFF ranked our line 27th last year. Don't mistake Mixon's individual greatness with good run blocking. Mixon made some great cuts to get yards when there was no blocking.

Cordy Glenn and Billy Price were supposed to come in and fix the Bengals’ reeling offensive line this season, but both came in and fell victim to what might be a cursed unit. Glenn had the lowest-graded season of his career at 60.9 overall, and he gave up a career-high 36 pressures. Price didn’t fare any better with a 49.4 overall grade in a season marred with injury.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

[Whatever]

(07-08-2019, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: PFF ranked our line 27th last year. Don't mistake Mixon's individual greatness with good run blocking. Mixon made some great cuts to get yards when there was no blocking.

Cordy Glenn and Billy Price were supposed to come in and fix the Bengals’ reeling offensive line this season, but both came in and fell victim to what might be a cursed unit. Glenn had the lowest-graded season of his career at 60.9 overall, and he gave up a career-high 36 pressures. Price didn’t fare any better with a 49.4 overall grade in a season marred with injury.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

Mixon's ypc went from 3.5 to 4.9 last year.  He's a great back, but his average actually proves that the run blocking improved last year.  You also have to factor in that teams keyed in him after Dalton, Green, etc went down.


The Bengals allowed the 12th fewest Sacks last year and were tied for the 6th fewest QB Hits allowed.  They were also 8th in ypc.  I don't really see how an OL that was in the Top 12 in every official measurable statistic can be rated 27th.

BTW, you claim Mixon's output was all about his "individual greatness", but he only had a good 77.8 PFF grade last year.  

[*Synric*]

(07-08-2019, 02:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: Mixon's ypc went from 3.5 to 4.9 last year.  He's a great back, but his average actually proves that the run blocking improved last year.  You also have to factor in that teams keyed in him after Dalton, Green, etc went down.


The Bengals allowed the 12th fewest Sacks last year and were tied for the 6th fewest QB Hits allowed.  They were also 8th in ypc.  I don't really see how an OL that was in the Top 12 in every official measurable statistic can be rated 27th.

BTW, you claim Mixon's output was all about his "individual greatness", but he only had a good 77.8 PFF grade last year.  

They allowed a ton of pressures is why they are 27th. 

Redmond was one of the worst in the league at guard. Both tackles also struggled giving up a ton of pressures. Price wasnt awful in pass pro but also didnt stand out and struggled with 1vs1 run blocks against IDL. Boling also had a career worst year in pass pro.

That said... they did improve drastically over 2017 which had to be the worst offensive line play I have ever seen.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-08-2019, 02:56 PM)Synric Wrote: They allowed a ton of pressures is why they are 27th. 

Redmond was one of the worst in the league at guard. Both tackles also struggled giving up a ton of pressures. Price wasnt awful in pass pro but also didnt stand out and struggled with 1vs1 run blocks against IDL. Boling also had a career worst year in pass pro.

That said... they did improve drastically over 2017 which had to be the worst offensive line play I have ever seen.

I agree.....the old fashioned eyeball test said the line was better than 2017 for sure.  Of course, that isn't saying a whole lot, but anyone that watched all of the games surely saw the difference.  Penalties were a big problem for the right side of the unit from what I watched.

[fredtoast]

(07-07-2019, 04:48 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: But flukey turnovers gave us the W against Miami, Atlanta’s defense was non existent and it still took a dumb ass rookie mistake to sneak out with a W.

Here is a perfect example of what I was talking about.  In the Dolphins game we completely dominated every phase of the game from the middle of the third quarter.  Here is what happened after the Dolphins took a 17-0 lead with 9:25 left in the third quarter.

Bengals offense next 3 possessions...…...27 plays...175 yards...10 firstdowns…......3 scores...0 turnovers
Dolphins offense next 5 possessions...…..22 plays.... 46 yards... 3 firstdowns..……. 0 scores...3 turnovers

That was not luck.  That was a total beat down by the Bengals on both offense and defense.



And why does that fact that Atlanta had a poor defense mean that we should have lost to them.  That makes no sense at all.