Surprised Cuts

[*pally*]

(08-30-2019, 10:46 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not so sure that I believe that, in this day and age.  It seemed like the top offensive units last season were spreading the ball around to many different receivers.  I did a quick search and found this about Drew Brees throwing TDs to 15 different receivers last year.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/20/drew-brees-new-orleans-saints-touchdown-passes-receivers-list

But those bottom of the roster WRs for Brees averaged less than a reception per game each so they get in for a play or 2.  Many of them didn't even play 1/2 the games.  No real difference than our bottom of the roster receivers.  Brees's numbers add up due to the RB, FB, TE and jack of all trades back up QB.

If you look at total snaps for the season, those last WRs for most teams do play mostly on special teams

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2019, 10:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They even valued him over William Jackson when it came to returning to the roster.

William Jackson was a rookie who had never even had a training camp.  He wasn't ready to contribute.

[*Synric*]

(08-30-2019, 11:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: William Jackson was a rookie who had never even had a training camp.  He wasn't ready to contribute.

And didnt they have an issue with injuries at running back?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-30-2019, 09:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Bah!  Special teamer's are developed every year.  Unless someone really makes it their entire reason for being, ala Cedric Peerman, the ST's excuse is a lame one for keeping lame players around.

(08-30-2019, 10:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's kind of like how Cedric Peerman made the roster for years because of special teams when he wasn't going to get RB snaps. They even valued him over William Jackson when it came to returning to the roster.

As I touched on in my earlier post, Cedric Peerman was the exception, and not the rule.  He took exceptional pride in being the Special Team's Captain, and led by example.  That guy could get down field in a hurry, and lay a good shot once he got there.  I'm betting that he was one heck of a LB in HS.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 08:25 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why would anyone be upset?  He's had 3 years, and now a 4th training camp, in order to show something that obviously isn't there.  Personally, I think that it's a strong likelihood that both Core and Malone get cut.  

Both of those guys have been outplayed, out hustled, and shown less fire and desire than the current batch of UDFA/late round pickups.

Bryant stepping up in the last two games sure didn't help Core and Malone's chances. 

Malone had a nice, twisting contested catch last night but is it too little too late? Core has been steady but nothing he's done stands out. 

[SunsetBengal]

(08-30-2019, 10:59 AM)pally Wrote: But those bottom of the roster WRs for Brees averaged less than a reception per game each so they get in for a play or 2.  Many of them didn't even play 1/2 the games.  No real difference than our bottom of the roster receivers.  Brees's numbers add up due to the RB, FB, TE and jack of all trades back up QB.

If you look at total snaps for the season, those last WRs for most teams do play mostly on special teams

I wasn't trying to "spotlight" the Saints, they were just the first team I found an article on, to use as a prime example.  As I recall, the Rams, Chefs, Pats, Vikings, and others all do a great job of getting bench players into the mix.

In this day and age of mega contracts and sudden injuries, a team must develop it's back end talent, else be caught with their pants down later.  One of the problems I've had with the Bengals offensive coaches over the years, is they allowed Andy to rely on AJ Green like a toddler clinging to his security blanket.  I'm hoping that the new coaching staff will have Andy feeling comfortable enough to utilize his entire arsenal of weaponry on the field, on any given play.

[BURROWorBUST]

(08-30-2019, 11:23 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Bryant stepping up in the last two games sure didn't help Core and Malone's chances. 

Malone had a nice, twisting contested catch last night but is it too little too late? Core has been steady but nothing he's done stands out. 

Yeah, Core can catch anything that hits him in the numbers, but that's it. Malone is likely to drop it if it hits his numbers. He does make more acrobatic catches than Core though. 

Bryant is just better as a WR.
ST's is a concern though. Fred's right. Maybe they can convert Core to safety.  

[Bengalitis]

We are not a WR development farm... dump Tate, Malone and Core. Keep Bryant and Flowers, at least he can RB & QB if need be. If Bryant can't do anything worthy, we will have more next draft/ufa cookie jar to get the talent like D-Will. That's why this team has been mediocre for the last 15 yrs.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 10:37 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: A 7th WR is going to be getting more snaps on Special Teams than Offense and there are likely to be more big plays per play on Special Teams than on Offense so I'm fine with developing Special Teams specialists - like Peerman, like Fejedelem. If he outperforms Malone, Jefferson or whoever else he's competing with on Special Teams then keep him on the roster.

Not true. The "average" punt returner gets about 8 yards per punt return, on about 20 punt returns every year. There are usually about 5-10 punt return TDs for the entire year on all punt returns.

The "average" starting WR gets about 12 yards per reception, on about 70 catches a year with 5 TDs (per player). 

Per game, the contribution of a WR is much greater on offense than it is on special teams. 

As far as what the 7th wideout can offer to a team, on the field--probably not much. But as a rule, any WR can offer more, on a per play basis, on offense than they can on STs. So if you're choosing between two guys, take the guy that can offer more for the offense over a guy that can run fast and play the gunner position. If you can't find a couple guys on a 53 man roster that can run fast for that, you already have bigger problems. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 10:41 AM)pally Wrote: Bryant has yet to play with even the 2nd string QB against a full 2nd team defense  He looks good among 3rd stringers and scrubs.  Would like to see more from him against better players before we anoint him

My surprise cut is Josh Tupou.  Billings and Glasgow aren't going anyplace and Andrew Brown has shown more growth this preseason than just about any player on the defense

No one said anything about "anointing" anyone. If a guy stands out among his peers (3s against 3s, 4s against 4s, etc) it's pretty clear he has the talent to step up to the next level of competition. How high he can go, true, no way to tell until he gets thrown out there. But as i said, the guys that stand out deserve more consideration than the guys that just blend in, when you're evaluating the bottom of the roster. 

[XenoMorph]

(08-30-2019, 11:55 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No one said anything about "anointing" anyone. If a guy stands out among his peers (3s against 3s, 4s against 4s, etc) it's pretty clear he has the talent to step up to the next level of competition. How high he can go, true, no way to tell until he gets thrown out there. But as i said, the guys that stand out deserve more consideration than the guys that just blend in, when you're evaluating the bottom of the roster. 

we should definitely be consider Bryant for the Practice squad   but not the roster at this point

[XenoMorph]

(08-30-2019, 11:37 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We are not a WR development farm...   dump Tate, Malone and Core. Keep Bryant and Flowers, at least he can RB & QB if need be.  If Bryant can't do anything worthy, we will have more next draft/ufa cookie jar to get the talent like D-Will.  That's why this team has been mediocre for the last 15 yrs.

Wait is the goal to be not as good as possible?

[XenoMorph]

(08-30-2019, 10:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's kind of like how Cedric Peerman made the roster for years because of special teams when he wasn't going to get RB snaps. They even valued him over William Jackson when it came to returning to the roster.

special teams are important field position is important..

I don't understand how football fans cant understand this lol

5th 6th 7th WR's aren't going to see the field much on offense at all and if they cant play ST's they might not be active on game days.... (just like a 4th RB or 5th/6th LBers etc....) at least if they are seeing the field things have gone way downhill

[XenoMorph]

(08-30-2019, 10:07 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Jerry was getting beat by scrubs at OT last night. I hope anyone who thought he could fill in adequately as the 4th OT has changed his/her mind.

yeah but was signed to be a OG...   with emergency OT ability.    Im not sure hes gone given our Depth behind him...  (do you keep a westerman  did westerman even play last night?)

[THE PISTONS]

(08-30-2019, 11:23 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Bryant stepping up in the last two games sure didn't help Core and Malone's chances. 

Malone had a nice, twisting contested catch last night but is it too little too late? Core has been steady but nothing he's done stands out. 

It will be interesting to see. I often wonder how coaches view the preseason games.

We've seen some guys play well like DeDe Dorsey several years ago and not make the roster.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why not mock the Tate fans?  They are even more ridiculous than the Core fans.

"Since special teams don't matter we should keep Tate."

Core NFL career... 30 rec...... 12.0 avg..... 50.8 catch percentage..... 6.1 yds per target..... 1 td
Tate NFL career...  4 rec.......  8.8 avg...... 33.3 catch percentage..... 2.9 yds per target..... 0 td 

Because anyone with eyes can see that Tate has more talent, not just on paper but with what he's done on the field, than Core does. 

Guys that look at raw stats with no context, as the determining factor, don't know what they're talking about. 

CORE
snaps- 262, 66, 311 = 639
30 / 360 / 12.0 / 1

TATE
snaps- 77
4 / 35 / 8.8 / 0

core 21.3 snaps per reception
tate 19.3 snaps per reception

core .56 yards per snap
tate .45 yards per snap

CORE- 6th round draft pick. Early reputation of not being able to adjust to
poorly thrown balls. 4th year in the league. Does not stand out.

TATE- 7th round draft pick. From the beginning, wowed everyone with ability to
make tough, contested catches. 2nd year in the league. Definitely stands out when
given the opportunity. 




But Tate fans are the ones that are "ridiculous". 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-30-2019, 05:47 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: The Colts game (which was painful to watch) ends the preseason.  The time is looming for some talented players who do not make the 53-man roster.  I know Luvnit2 has final cuts but please List your surprised cuts here:

I will have to go with Malone.  I thought he would be a surprised break out player but I do not feel he accomplished enough to make the 53-man roster.

Malone on Offense, Jefferson on Defense.

Too bad, thought both were extremely talented. But Malone doesn't have great get up and go and is not a great ST'er and Malik just doesn't have the mental aspect still. Can have all the talent in the world if you are a LB'er but if you have no instincts it doesn't matter. Have to be able to diagnose plays.

[XenoMorph]

(08-30-2019, 12:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Malone on Offense, Jefferson on Defense.

Too bad, thought both were extremely talented. But Malone doesn't have great get up and go and is not a great ST'er and Malik just doesn't have the mental aspect still. Can have all the talent in the world if you are a LB'er but if you have no instincts it doesn't matter. Have to be able to diagnose plays.

yeah I don't really like the LB we drafted this year either...  He might not make it.   And we are probly watching the waiver wire for LBers….

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-30-2019, 12:35 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: yeah I don't really like the LB we drafted this year either...  He might not make it.   And we are probly watching the waiver wire for LBers….

Davis? Too bad, thought he was the opposite of Malik. Instincts, able to diagnose plays but athletically inferior.

Yes, think we will be looking to add a LB'er or two.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-30-2019, 12:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: special teams are important field position is important..

I don't understand how football fans cant understand this lol

5th 6th 7th WR's aren't going to see the field much on offense at all and if they cant play ST's they might not be active on game days....   (just like a 4th RB or 5th/6th LBers etc....)    at least if they are seeing the field things have gone way downhill

Spot on. If people don't understand that ST's can win or lose a game they don't watch football or just take good ST's play for granted. There are 3 phases in this game, all are equally important.