Follow this model for rebuild: 49ers

[J24]

To the OP the Bengals should copy and paste many ideas just not one.

Copy off the Colts in 2018 trade the top pick move three or four spots down & gain draft capital. For example Bengals draft at three & Falcons are at 6- Falcons give there 2nd Rd pick, the pats 2nd Rd pick, and a 2021 2nd Rd pick.

Use free agency like the Niners -;Sign Cory Littleton lB and Jack Cronin RT ( credit Rfaulk did not know about him before he mentioned him). Both Guys are young and fill immediate needs for the team.

We're going to have to make significant cuts but that shouldn't be that big of an issue but it is the Bengals.

[Au165]

(10-28-2019, 01:24 PM)J24 Wrote: We're one of the youngest teams in the NFL the rebuilding has begun. What we need to do is actually address the needs on this team to improve. There is no reason this rebuild should take that long.

They aren't rebuilding if they are holding contracts of guys who will be on the backsides of their careers in 2-3 years with very large contracts. In general, the rule is a rebuild in the NFL takes 2-3 years. We aren't into the rebuild yet because we still need 3 O linemen, 2 Linebackers, 2 Defensive Backs, and a QB most likely, that is the start of a rebuild not one already in progress.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-28-2019, 01:24 PM)J24 Wrote: We're one of the youngest teams in the NFL the rebuilding has begun. What we need to do is actually address the needs on this team to improve. There is no reason this rebuild should take that long.

We're not rebuilding by regular, winning NFL team standards. We may be rebuilding by Mike Brown standards ?

[BengalChris]

(10-28-2019, 12:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: The free agents are the last piece of the rebuild. We are 2-3 years away from finishing it off with FA's we need a couple solid drafts first, but we also need to admit we are rebuilding before any of that can start.

Let's say you are correct about the Bengals being 2-3 years away from finishing a rebuild, then is there any logic in not trading guys who won't be here in 3 years to be part of that?

Just asking to get viewpoints on that question.

 

[J24]

(10-28-2019, 01:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: They aren't rebuilding if they are holding contracts of guys who will be on the backsides of their careers in 2-3 years with very large contracts. In general, the rule is a rebuild in the NFL takes 2-3 years. We aren't into the rebuild yet because we still need 3 O linemen, 2 Linebackers, 2 Defensive Backs, and a QB most likely, that is the start of a rebuild not one already in progress.

They will have around 58 million in Cap next season could easily have over 100 million in Cap if they cut the bad players off the roster. A new Green deal, the Atkins Deal, and Dunlap deal should not be that harmful on a team rebuild.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-28-2019, 11:15 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Right...and one wonders why teams like the 49ers, Patriots, and Steelers have 2 to 3 times the personnel in the areas that handle draft and scouting.

And that isn't ever going to change so quit repeating it. Makes me want to quit being a fan cause it is hopeless...

(10-28-2019, 11:43 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Bingo  

It's been said hundreds of times but anyways, this team is still reeling from the giant whiff of the 2015 draft. Of those 9 picks 1 is still on the team - Uzomah. For a team that relies so heavily on the draft a FUBAR like that resonates for years after.

Then take the 2017 draft into consideration. #1 Ross he can't stay on the field. #2 Mixon umm ok #3 Willis - gone #4 Lawson - see Ross #4A Malone - gone #4B Glasgow ok.

Then 2018 #1 Price, serious questions #2 Bates still hope I guess ? #3A Hubbard - good one #3B Jefferson - gone #4 Walton - gone.

2015 - 6 picks in first four rounds - none still on team

2017 - again 6 picks in first four rounds - 2 are gone, 2 can't stay on the field

2018 - 5 picks in first four rounds - 2 are gone, and 1 is regressing badly
 
You simply can't miss on that many of your picks in the first 4 rounds of three drafts !

Spot on brother. 

(10-28-2019, 12:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: The free agents are the last piece of the rebuild. We are 2-3 years away from finishing it off with FA's we need a couple solid drafts first, but we also need to admit we are rebuilding before any of that can start.

0-8 should give these guys a little hint that we are on the rebuild.

I never would of thought this going into the season but the ones saying this were correct and so are you as usual.

(10-28-2019, 01:03 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Chase Young in the first and Jacob Eason in the second sounds like a solid plan.  I just don't know if Eason gets to the second round (assuming he even declares).  Plus, he strikes me as a pure pocket passer, which is entirely predicated on having a great offensive line - which we do not currently have.

Does sound like a solid plan, i agree with you on Eason though. Need to get a QB with great pocket awareness and
great feet. Might need to roll with Finley next season and go for Fields, Herbert or Lawrence in 21 as SHRacer said.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-28-2019, 12:59 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think the Bengals should draft Young at #1 pick if he is there, even though I think Burrow is a special QB.  Young may be the best college player at this time.  Bengals could still get QB round 2 or 3.  If they wait until round 3 and grabb Eason or Hurts, the team could snag Kindley at guard in round 2.  

Young DE
Kindley Guard
Eason/Hurts QB

I really like Hurts, better than Eason for us...

[Au165]

(10-28-2019, 02:12 PM)J24 Wrote: They will have around 58 million in Cap next season could easily have over 100 million in Cap if they cut the bad players off the roster. A new Green deal, the Atkins Deal, and Dunlap deal should not be that harmful on a team rebuild.

As I just said we are about 8/9 players away, that probably includes a new QB. This core is too old to compete now, we missed our window and it's time to strip it down and do it again. I mean you mention Dunlap and Atkins....those two are part of a D line who are 29th in the league in sacks. AJ Green has played one full season in the last 4, he isn't going to be healthier going forward as that's not how getting older at WR works. Larry Fitzgerald is the exception, there are far more 30+ year old WR's who were completely overcome by injuries late in their careers. 

The hardest part of a rebuild is admitting it's time for a rebuild.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-28-2019, 10:57 AM)seahawkscheat Wrote: What free agent wants to play for the bungles? Where is our GM? Let’s face it this team won’t be Super Bowl contenders for the next 40 years

Will probably have to overpay a bit, or at least increase the guaranteed money.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-28-2019, 11:02 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So under Personnel & Scouting...the 49ers have 21 people listed. That doesn't count John Lynch who is their GM. And they have a football analytics department in addition that has a salary cap specialist. Another 8 employees. So 29 total!

The Bengals have 8 people listed for Player Personnel...which appears to include their Analytics Dept...

49ers Personnel & Scouting
Adam Peters Vice President of Player Personnel
Martin Mayhew Vice President of Player Personnel
Keena Turner Vice President and Senior Advisor to the General Manager
Ran Carthon Director, Pro Personnel
Ethan Waugh Director, College Scouting
R.J. Gillen Pro Personnel Scout
Justin Chabot National Scout
Chip Flanagan National Scout
Tariq Ahmad Area Scout
Dominic DeCicco Area Scout
Ryan Kessenich Area Scout
Steve Rubio Area Scout
John Stevenson Area Scout
Joshua Williams Area Scout
Salli Clavelle Pro Personnel Analyst
Fred Gammage III Pro Personnel Analyst
Crowley Hanlon Pro Personnel Coordinator
Travis Dauro College Scouting Coordinator
Thomas Tupa Scouting Assistant
Warren Ball Scouting Assistant
Steve Slowik Scouting Assistant

49ers Football Operations
Brian Hampton Director, Football Administration & Analytics
Kwesi Adofo-Mensah Director, Football R&D
Steve Wagner Manager, Football Systems
Demitrius Washington Manager, Football R&D
Neil Mayfield Software Developer
Dyng Au Software Developer
Richard Buffum Contract Administrator
Jeffrey Diamond Salary Cap Analyst

Bengals Player Personnel
Duke Tobin Director of Player Personnel
Mike Potts Scouting Director (College)
Steven Radicevic Scouting Director (Pro)
Bill Tobin Personnel Executive
Andrew Johnson Scout
Christian Sarkisian Scout
Geoff Smith Scouting Technology Consultant
Debbie LaRocco Personnel Assistant

All the more reason to make the FA moves...you know those are NFL-caliber talent.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-28-2019, 11:20 AM)Big Boss Wrote: We aren't as active in free agency or in trades as the 49ers are, so this model doesn't apply to us.

Not sure if they had been in recent history, but the Packers had not and they made such a similar overhaul.  

[Bengalitis]

I'm more impressed by how quickly the CARDINALS turned their sinking boat around. Very Freaking amazing. Even re-drafting their QB after messing up. Talk about making up for your mistakes. Had the Bengals done that, they'd be stuck with a flopped QB until his rookie contract is up. New coaches too as a BONUS.

[Luvnit2]

They are doing all of this with their star veteran LT out. Teams that develop players at all levels get through injuries. Teams they do not, fold with any key injury like us.

Coleman also missed a few games.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-29-2019, 11:37 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: They are doing all of this with their star veteran LT out. Teams that develop players at all levels get through injuries. Teams they do not, fold with any key injury like us.

Coleman also missed a few games.

Yes...and outside of Green, I wouldn't call Glenn or Williams 'stars'. Jerry has arguably played at Tackle at a similar level to Glenn last year.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-29-2019, 10:47 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: I'm more impressed by how quickly the CARDINALS turned their sinking boat around. Very Freaking amazing. Even re-drafting their QB after messing up. Talk about making up for your mistakes. Had the Bengals done that, they'd be stuck with a flopped QB until his rookie contract is up. New coaches too as a BONUS.

With better coaching...we'd have 2-3 wins now.

[ah5]

Defense wins championships.

Sent from my BND-L34 using Tapatalk

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(10-28-2019, 02:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We're not rebuilding by regular, winning NFL team standards. We may be rebuilding by Mike Brown standards ?

Mikey's rebuilds are of the standard house of cards variety.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(10-28-2019, 10:51 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Listed below is the last four drafts for the SF 49ers, who are now 7-0.  They have given up 23 points in their last four games, COMBINED.  During that time, they scored 111 points.  Clearly, they are a team on the rise.  Before anyone throws out how they got their QB first, Jimmy G's injury allowed them to tank another season and get Bosa, a clear Defensive MVP candidate.  Their first round picks went DE, T, DE, and DE in the last four drafts.  

Now, in FREE AGENCY, The 49ers have added six new players, including Dee Ford, Kwon Alexander, Tevin Coleman, Jason Verrett, David Mayo, and Jordan Matthews...just in 2019.  They creatively structured the contracts in such a way as they couldn't get hurt too badly if the top dollar investments didn't pan out, but Ford and Alexander have helped to transform this defense.  

First round picks on a T and a Guard helped to solidify their offensive line as well.  The Bengals could have one key position in Jonah Williams, but Billy Price has been a massive disappointment.  As big a whiff as he appears to be, they might have found something in Hopkins.  

If the Bengals could draft a guy like Chase Young to pair opposite Hubbard (and let's face it, Young might sell some tickets and that HAS to be on their minds based on what the stands look like this year), and potentially upgrade the RT position as well in Rd 2,  the team could have the basis of a solid foundation on the offensive line.  The defensive line appears to have a good, young nucleus in the middle but needs help on the outside (much like the 49ers did).  Add some pressure and the back end of the defense doesn't look so awful.  

They could address the LB position and Guard position in Free Agency.  And it would take at least one very good Guard and two very good FA LBs to make a difference, but they could absolutely do it.  

Do these things and THEN address the QB position (my dream would be the big, strong-armed,  fast, and elusive Justin Fields in the 2021 draft.  

2019
1 2 Nick Bosa DE Ohio State
2 36 Deebo Samuel WR South Carolina
3 67 Jalen Hurd WR Baylor
4 110 Mitch Wishnowsky P Utah
5 148 Dre Greenlaw LB Arkansas
6 176 Kaden Smith TE Stanford
6 183 Justin Skule T Vanderbilt
6 198 Tim Harris CB Virginia

2018 - SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 9 Mike McGlinchey T Notre Dame
2 44 Dante Pettis WR Washington
3 70 Fred Warner LB Brigham Young
3 95 Tarvarius Moore SAF Southern Mississippi
4 128 Kentavius Street DE North Carolina State
5 142 D.J. Reed CB Kansas State
6 184 Marcell Harris SAF Florida
7 223 Jullian Taylor DT Temple
7 240 Richie James WR Middle Tennessee State

2017 - SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Solomon Thomas DE Stanford
1 31 Reuben Foster LB Alabama
3 66 Ahkello Witherspoon CB Colorado
3 104 C.J. Beathard QB Iowa
4 121 Joe Williams RB Utah
5 146 George Kittle TE Iowa
5 177 Trent Taylor WR Louisiana Tech
6 202 Pita Taumoepenu LB Utah
6 198 D.J. Jones DT Mississippi
7 229 Adrian Colbert SAF Miami (Fla.)

2016 Draft
1 7 DeForest Buckner DE Oregon
1 28 Joshua Garnett G Stanford
3 68 Will Redmond CB Mississippi State
4 133 Rashard Robinson CB LSU
5 142 Ronald Blair DE Appalachian State
5 145 John Theus T Georgia
5 174 Fahn Cooper T Mississippi
6 207 Jeff Driskel QB Louisiana Tech
6 211 Kelvin Taylor RB Florida
6 213 Aaron Burbridge WR Michigan State
7 249 Prince Charles Iworah CB Western Kentucky

Others have already mentioned the scouting/front office personnel difference between the 2 teams but from the 49ers perspective when they hit rock bottom a few years back the owner decided to change the organization top to bottom. He clearly did it the right way. They probably have $10M of head office expenses that the Bengals do not but that is the investment price you have to pay to be a good team. I would argue you can get that back and more from additional revenue if the team succeeds. 

But the tree sloth has no interest in investing now to win in 2 years. He literally cannot get out of his own way. 

[MEBengalsFan]

(10-28-2019, 11:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right, we aren't active at all in free agency other than bargain bin type players.

The problem I see with FA that the Bengals do bring in are cheaper but some of those players out play their contract while with the Bengals and knowing how cheap the organization is they probably think that if they had luck in the pass acquiring cheaper FA that pan out they will continue with this process. The problem is as technology advances in the ability to determine a player value/skill getting cheap FA means finding players who are closer to the bottom of the barrel that have nearly tapped out their potential. When ML was here that technology was not around so using his coaches he could find cheaper FA that had that potential they could tap into and produce but now its isn't so easy and cheap. 

[packerbacker]

The 2013 Bengals were a Super Bowl caliber team. That team could have won it all. I think too in 2005 also.