Dalton POed

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2019, 05:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Have always been a Dalton supporter and don't like how the team handled this at all but this needed to happen.

Finley shown pocket presence and the ability to move the pocket in Preseason and in college.

Dalton shown in the last 16 games or so he doesn't have this ability and honestly i don't blame him after the shitty OL's he's had.

He's been traumatized and just panics even when the Line doesn't break down.

I mean, he moved well in college in TCUs offense....agree, he's shell shocked. He pretty admitted it Sunday.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(10-30-2019, 11:18 PM)Wyche Wrote: Even the great Rodgers (and he is great) went 6-10 or 7-9 when their line struggled and Cobb was hurt, with some others. Rodgers is good enough to have probably 3 or 4 wins vs 0, but yes, I think he would struggle this season too.

Exactly.  Take away the OLine and consistency from the WRs and that is a recipe for QB failure.  I saw somewhere that we lead the league in dropped passes.  I would assume that these are catchable passes that the WR just didn't come down with. 

If a QB throws to a WR multiple times and that WR doesn't make the catch, the QB will then doubt that WRs abilities.  This causes Dalton to "miss" wide open WRs as he may see them, but remember the last 3 times he threw to that WR.  He also may see that the WR isn't as wide open as it looks and doesn't trust the WR to come down with the ball so he throws it away instead of risking an INT.

Sure we could win some games with Rodgers, maybe even with Mahomes.  However with the OLine play being so bad and the WRs not catching the passes that they should catch, we would still have a losing record and if we made the playoffs (due to division being so bad this year) we only lose in the 1st round anyway.

[leonardfan40]

(10-30-2019, 11:15 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I, myself, corrected it....it was announced to US at 230, he had an extra hour I wasn't considering. But I thought deadline was 4?

Ah looks like it was 4pm. Still, news had leaked by 1pm which means people were being told by then. Andy would have been one of the first told. Even if he wasn’t told he and his agent definitely knew by 1 pm when the entire world knew.

At the end of the day it cost him 8 games if another team was going to trade for him and start him next week AND assuming he doesn’t end up starting again for the Bengals this year.

The team was under no obligation to trade him just because he got benched. A real competitor would not just give up, although it makes a lot more sense why Marvin never benched him before or brought in any real competition if he is done the second he gets benched during an 0-8 season.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(10-30-2019, 11:22 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: If he’s not going to be a starter next year he could still test the trade market or be cut this offseason. His trade value will be higher in the offseason when teams have more cap flexibility and know what is available. It’s not brilliant but it’s definitely not the horrible, insulting, incompetent move everyone seems to be making it out to be. Truth is there aren’t many teams that need him for the 2nd half of the year. Maybe if a (well timed) injury happened to another starting QB it would have made for a perfect storm to trade him, but that didn’t happen.

People acting like the Bengals ended his chance of ever playing the game again. All they did by not trading him is cost him 8 games and that’s IF Finley doesn’t sh*t the bed and get put back on the bench.

There is a whole lot of overreacting going on with this move. At the end of the day, just about everyone wanted him benched and got it. People need to be happy they got what they wanted (one of the rare times the team does what the fans wanted) and see how the other stuff plays out over the next 6-12 months.

Yet I wouldn't blame Dalton one bit if he were to say... "Nah, I'm good."

Taylor already admitted to him that they want to see what Finley can do before going into the draft.  Which means the organization is either going to roll with Finley or draft a QB in the 1st.

Why should Dalton go out and finish the season?  If Finley plays like crap that is ZT's issue.  Of course Finley could play like crap, the OLine will still be terrible and the run game will be non-existent.  WRs will still drop passes, assuming that Green doesn't play. 

If Finley plays poorly, Dalton should say  "Maybe see what Dolegala can do?  I mean you want to make 100% sure before the draft, right?  I wouldn't want to prevent you from finding out what you have for the future at QB."

Of course I am pettier than Dalton is.  Dalton would probably just go back out there.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-30-2019, 11:43 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yet I wouldn't blame Dalton one bit if he were to say... "Nah, I'm good."

Taylor already admitted to him that they want to see what Finley can do before going into the draft. 

That’s right. You know the Bengals will take a quarterback in the draft; it’s just a matter of which one. I have a strong suspicion Mike Brown wants Tua Tagovailoa — he’s injured and therefore cheaper — but no one will be drafted or acquired through free agency to give Tua a good offensive line.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-30-2019, 07:06 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I was thinking about it on the drive home, and then Moving The Chains said exactly what I was thinking.  The front office wants Chase Young, and they need to get the next guy ready so they can justify skipping a QB at the top of the draft.

Chase Young is fine. I'd be happy with that. I think the QB class this year is very deep and they can get their QB (if Finley doesn't work out) in the 2nd round. I just wish like hell they would have made a deal or two to get some more draft chips to get back in the first round and take Oline. 

I guess they might still be able to do that (trades) before the draft but they're not going to get nearly the picks they would have if they had pulled the trigger yesterday. Of course it's kind of a pipe dream, the Bengals moving back into the 1st when they already have a high one and two...

[OswaldsLegacy]

(10-30-2019, 11:49 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That’s right.  You know the Bengals will take a quarterback in the draft; it’s just a matter of which one.  I have a strong suspicion Mike Brown wants Tua Tagovailoa — he’s injured and therefore cheaper — but no one will be drafted or acquired through free agency to give Tua a good offensive line.

Probably.   I see us going the QB in the 1st and then getting no name people after that.  Maybe even another WR.

We will pick up 4th or 5th round OT/OGs and be given the same spin of "He is a guy that can play EVERYWHERE on the line.  Much more valuable than the 1st round OT that can play both OT spots." 

Then our new fresh faced QB (seriously don't want Tua or Hurts) will struggle and then will be called a bust.  With some fans (the ones that are against Dalton so much) calling for us to draft another QB in the 1st the following year.  Thus the circle is complete.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-30-2019, 07:27 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I would have done it on the flight home from London.  That way it would have been impossible to leak.  I would have done it professionally, somberly, and with respect.  That way Andy Dalton and his agent would have had maybe 36 hours to work a deal elsewhere rather than the stingy 90 minutes Mikey Boy and Zac gave them.

It doesn't matter how many hours you give them to try and work out a trade, Mike Brown was not letting him go this year. 

If Finley goes out there and rips up his knee in the first quarter or bombs completely and utterly, who do you think is going to come in? Dolegala?

No. Dalton is the security blanket in case something goes wrong behind center this year. They will trade him before or during the draft next year and probably get a 4th or 5th for him. 

[muskiesfan]

Good for Andy. Glad he's bitching about this shit show.

For all those happy right now, this was just another dumb ass move by the Brown family. In their infinite wisdom, they killed his trade value.

1) had they benched him earlier or even let him play while seeking a trade, his value would've been it's highest at the deadline. Letting the world know 3 hours before the trade deadline was bullshit.
2) yes, they could still trade him in the offseason, but they'll get less than they would've at the deadline if they get anything at all.
3) regardless of how Finley plays, does anyone expect the Bengals to pay Andy $17.7m next season to be the backup? I'd say every other team, GM, and owner are smarter than what the Bengals have. Why offer anything for Dalton when you know he'll be released?

As for those of you celebrating, what really happened? Are you going to ***** if Finley goes 0-8? Also, if Finley does win some games it hurts the team. Is 3-4 wins this year worth a worse draft pick next year? I keep hearing that seeing what Finley has speeds up the rebuild. First, we're talking about the Brown family. Second, if he sucks you're still drafting a QB early.

Moving on from Dalton isn't a bad thing. I have no problem with that. This was just handled very poorly from the family all the way down to Taylor.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-31-2019, 12:00 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It doesn't matter how many hours you give them to try and work out a trade, Mike Brown was not letting him go this year. 

If Finley goes out there and rips up his knee in the first quarter or bombs completely and utterly, who do you think is going to come in? Dolegala?

No. Dalton is the security blanket in case something goes wrong behind center this year. They will trade him before or during the draft next year and probably get a 4th or 5th for him. 

That’s an interesting thought. In most of our minds Andy Dalton is probably number two on the depth chart but something tells me in Zac Taylor’s mind he’s now number three behind Jake Dolegala. I might be wrong but Zac probably considers Ryan Finley and Jake Dolegala “his guys” and Andy Dalton was “Marvin’s guy.”

Whatever the case, I want to see the Bengals win out.

[bengalsfansince93]

(10-30-2019, 03:50 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Dalton is pissed at Zac and the Bengals for not letting him know he was getting benched because he thought his agent could have got him a gig somewhere else. Dude you were 0-8. You should have went to a palm reader. Hold that clip board for a million a game.

This is accurate. Boo hoo Andy. Your lucky you even lasted this long. Should have been let go long time ago. Where’s all the Dalton supporters that have been defending him for years you’ve all gone mostly quiet. Your boy Andy has been nothing but mediocre. Anyone that thinks he was ever a good QB is a moron.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-30-2019, 08:23 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: He was also on the other side of that and was 8-0 as a leader as well.

If Taylor had any sense he would try to find out what made Dalton successful on that 8-0 team and look to creating that.

That year he had reliable WRs in Green, Sanu and Jones.  He had a great TE in Eifert.  His OLine was the best it had ever been with Whitworth, Boling, Bodine, Zeitler and Smith.  Winston was a serviceable back up.

Then in 2016 both Jones and Sanu departed and were replaced with Tyler Boyd.. that's it.   Green got injured and was IRed, Eifert IRed and Boling as well.  Even then the Bengals were 3 games where we needed a FG to win to qualify for the playoffs.

2017 is when everything fell apart.  Still no WR to replace Jones, since Boyd was more like Sanu.  No more Whitworth or Zeitler and Smith was IRed.  That is 3 guys on the OLine that is missing.

I know building up a solid OLine is easier said than done, but after Cedric and Jake and no possibly Price failed, you don't throw away the QB.  You continue looking at your options to build that line.  Glenn didn't pan out either.  They drafted Williams but then he is injured.  However that is a good start, don't stop there though.  Grab another OT with the first pick and grab a OG with the 2nd pick.

It wasn't just the offense. The Bengals had a near elite defense in '15 as well. 

People always seem to forget how good they were in 2013. Yet, in the PO game against the Chargers, after a good first half, Dalton shit the bed in the 2nd half, throwing 2 ints and fumbling. 

Bengals fans love to sigh and say "what if" when the QB gets hurt and can't finish the year but always forget that every time the QB actually did finish the year, the team failed to win a PO game. The loss to the Chargers was inexcusable so i'm not convinced in the slightest that the story would have been different in the magical year of 2015. 

It's beyond unreasonable to think the Bengals could build a team like 2013-2015 so that Dalton could possibly, once again, be average/above average and then lose another playoff game. It was time (way past, actually) for him to sit down and allow someone else to try, especially since they're so pathetic this year that they're more than likely to be looking QB early in the first, or even depending on who's left, in the 2nd. 

Dalton may be a great guy and a fantasic humanitarian (sincere), but he was vanilla ice cream for dessert as a QB. 

[bengalsfansince93]

(10-30-2019, 10:36 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: What teams had a QB go down to injury that Dalton could step in right away and win games for?

That was willing to give us a decent pick for cause Dalton still has value to us to help coach Finley and Dolegala.

I don’t want Andy coaching any of our QBs. No thanks!

[TKUHL]

I think we can all agree that only the Bengals can find a way to poorly handle the benching of a QB that is 1-16

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-30-2019, 09:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: But he did stink it up.  He missed throws to open receivers, while the game was still in a competitive frame, at least one that would have been a for-sure TD.

I think waiting until after the 8th game was wishy-washy on the part of the team.  If they were going to bench him and check out the kid, they should have done that 3 or 4 games ago.

Yep. But in their infinite wisdom (and i do believe the decision was made in Zac's mind games ago) they decided to wait until the bye (since the season was over) to give Finley more time to adjust. 

AND, there's no damn way they were going to do anything before the trade deadline with anyone, so people need to stop bringing that into the equation when talking about when it was announced. They were going to stand pat all along, see what they have to work with this year and use their allotted picks next year to fill gaps. It's the 'Bengals way'. Half measure here, half measure there, get em next year. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-30-2019, 09:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Had to be done. Why so terrible? It's not up to Andy to leave since he has a contract. He can retire, but he can't go to another team. Dude has victories, but no playoff wins. Most convincingly, he's 0-8 as a leader of the offense. If you don't bench him and try something new then you get bashed for that also.


What? Why wouldn't you see what you have in Finley if you are 0-8? So what if he looses you a game or 2 or all? It let's you refocus on the draft or even give Dolegala a try to see what he's got. Plus, if he wins? SHEEET, you start to see things in the micro-dish. As for Green, watch his interview about the benching and then rethink. 


Again, watch the interview with AJ and others regarding the benching. You get a sense they feel this is a positive thing.


Not true. 0-8 team realizing they are 0-8. Time to see what other players they are paying can bring to the table. Time to actually re-evaluate everything.


Actually, no offense, but I've been hoping for this for a few weeks now. And although I understand where you are coming from, I hope the moves bring some good things (Damnit Marvin)! But it wont. Everything I've hoped for years where the Bengals are concerned crashes to the ground in a fiery demise. But? Maybe this time it's different? 

Yep. Players aren't stupid. They see better than the fans and they want to win more than the fans, so when they see a QB that can't extend drives, avoid pressure or get the ball in the endzone, they're more than lilely willing to see what the next guy can do. That doesn't mean they don't like Dalton, just that they want to win and not look like the laughing stock of the NFL. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-30-2019, 10:33 PM)Destro Wrote: And was benched yesterday afternoon. The decision that it was going to happen was likely well before then.

There's nothing sketchy about it. They were never going to trade him this year and they want 2 weeks for Finley to prepare, since the season has been over for weeks now. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2019, 11:22 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: If he’s not going to be a starter next year he could still test the trade market or be cut this offseason. His trade value will be higher in the offseason when teams have more cap flexibility and know what is available. It’s not brilliant but it’s definitely not the horrible, insulting, incompetent move everyone seems to be making it out to be. Truth is there aren’t many teams that need him for the 2nd half of the year. Maybe if a (well timed) injury happened to another starting QB it would have made for a perfect storm to trade him, but that didn’t happen.

People acting like the Bengals ended his chance of ever playing the game again. All they did by not trading him is cost him 8 games and that’s IF Finley doesn’t sh*t the bed and get put back on the bench.

There is a whole lot of overreacting going on with this move. At the end of the day, just about everyone wanted him benched and got it. People need to be happy they got what they wanted (one of the rare times the team does what the fans wanted) and see how the other stuff plays out over the next 6-12 months.

Apparently the Bears and Broncos were interested. The timing was reminiscent of ***** up the McCarron deal. It's Mike Brown, we'll agree to disagree.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(10-31-2019, 12:18 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It wasn't just the offense. The Bengals had a near elite defense in '15 as well. 

People always seem to forget how good they were in 2013. Yet, in the PO game against the Chargers, after a good first half, Dalton shit the bed in the 2nd half, throwing 2 ints and fumbling. 

Bengals fans love to sigh and say "what if" when the QB gets hurt and can't finish the year but always forget that every time the QB actually did finish the year, the team failed to win a PO game. The loss to the Chargers was inexcusable so i'm not convinced in the slightest that the story would have been different in the magical year of 2015. 

It's beyond unreasonable to think the Bengals could build a team like 2013-2015 so that Dalton could possibly, once again, be average/above average and then lose another playoff game. It was time (way past, actually) for him to sit down and allow someone else to try, especially since they're so pathetic this year that they're more than likely to be looking QB early in the first, or even depending on who's left, in the 2nd. 

Dalton may be a great guy and a fantasic humanitarian (sincere), but he was vanilla ice cream for dessert as a QB. 

What is wrong with vanilla ice cream?  Nothing... it is just as flavorful as any other flavor out there.

Yes the Bengals had a great defense in '15.  Not too many people are calling for a benching of Atkins or Dunlap are they?  Those 2 have played even more poorly than Dalton has, but instead of calling them out, they call out the DC and other players as well, but not those 2.

Dalton did play poorly against the Chargers... but so did that "elite" defense you speak of.  Atkins and Dunlap got how many sacks in that game again?  1 sack for 6 yards... yet Dalton played poorly, even though he was sacked 3 times for 8 yards.

Don't forget the drops either.  I know I saw one pass that hit Green (yes, our star WR) in the hands, dropped right into the bucket, and he just doesn't catch it.

'13 was definitely a terrible playoff loss though.  Probably the ONLY 1 you can actually point to Dalton's play as the reason for the losses.  The others are not quite so easily claimed, unless you really just don't like the way Dalton plays the game (which is pocket QB, managing the game, doing what the coaches tell him to do).  I see Dalton as the scapegoat and not the reason for the losses.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2019, 11:39 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Ah looks like it was 4pm. Still, news had leaked by 1pm which means people were being told by then. Andy would have been one of the first told. Even if he wasn’t told he and his agent definitely knew by 1 pm when the entire world knew.

At the end of the day it cost him 8 games if another team was going to trade for him and start him next week AND assuming he doesn’t end up starting again for the Bengals this year.

The team was under no obligation to trade him just because he got benched. A real competitor would not just give up, although it makes a lot more sense why Marvin never benched him before or brought in any real competition if he is done the second he gets benched during an 0-8 season.

He said he understood the benching, he was just upset about the timing because he wants to play. He's played the good soldier, then made the scapegoat....well it appears he feels that way. So, he wants a shot to play.  

Shit happens behind the scenes. Good people get fired or ****** over on a promotion every day out here in the real world. Some lay down and take it, others go work for the competition and get theirs. I know what I do.