Carson Palmer Rips Bengals Front Office

[BengalsRocker]

(11-04-2019, 01:38 AM)samhain Wrote: Levi was done at that point.  Willie was damn close.  It was a bad line.

That offseason, they signed some dude named Titus Adams and a washed-up Ed Hartwell, who I'm pretty sure didn't make the team.  They did nothing to protect their franchise quarterback, and reaped the results of their inactivity when the season came.  

I believe that was also the year that they had Anthony Schlegel, Chinedum Nkdukwe, and Jumpy Geathers lining up at linebacker because they opted to half-ass the offseason.  

I'm sure they signed some practice squad guys, though.   

Thank you.

People like to toss names around and figure that they're always great.

That wasn't the case for 2008.

The line looked like a train wreck for whatever reason.

Rule of thumb around these parts is if the first team O-Line looks like garbage in Pre-Season then it's gonna be a long year.

That year they looked horrific as a unit.

Kinda like this season... last season... 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

The OL could not block KK? Oh the horror...

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-04-2019, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If we want to be honest in our positions we must consider what CP 9 was referring to when he said nothing:

His actual words were this:


We were very active in signing a couple players here, a couple players there during the time frame CP9 was talking about.

And as to the rest: you are a liar (let's just go with mistaken; no need to be ugly)  we did a lot this off season including replacing the entire coaching staff. We just did something last week, we replaced our starting QB. Will any of them pay off? Who knows, but to say we did nothing is a lie.

We complain about what the Bengals do or don't do during free agency every year.

Let's explore signing a couple players her and there during Carson's time . . .

(11-02-2019, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Off the top of my head we signed Pacman Jones, Antonio Bryant, Gibril Wilson, and Terrel Owens that off season.

Carson Palmer is a punk. 

Pacman is probably the quintessential player Marvin complained about.  They ignored the flagrant character issues over talent and it bit them in the ass.  Even the fake fortune teller Miss Cleo saw that shit coming.

Antonio Bryant signed coming off an injury.  Never played a down for the Bengals because of a knee injury (same knee as previous season) still shrouded in mystery and controversy.

Gibril Wilson was a journey man.  The Bengals were his 4th team in 4 years. Didn't play at all in 2010 due to injury.  Combined for 33 total tackles and 1 FF during his entire tenure with the Bengals.

TO: no one wanted him.  Not even the Bengals' first choice at WR in FA.  They only signed him because the F'ed with TJ, Coles, and Bryant the three previous seasons.

Wow.  That's one helluva FA haul.  So again nothing happens.  Nothing changes.  Well, Pacman did directly contribute to one play off loss so there is that.

Look at this season.  The problems they have this season are the same ones they've had for how many seasons?

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-04-2019, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: During the offseason after the 2010 season when Palmer sat out and demanded a trade Mike Brown signed three new starters in free agency that helped improve our defense from 24th to 9th in scoring.

How the hell can anyone here defend Palmer for calling that "nothing"?

They signed Newman in 2012. 

Palmer's demands happened before free agency, so he had been sitting out for about 3 months at that point. 

The "nothing" probably has more to do with who signed, not that no one was signed. 

In hindsight, it's easy to look back at how it turned out, but before the season in 2011, it was widely predicted that the Bengals wouldn't win a game. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-04-2019, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If we want to be honest in our positions we must consider what CP 9 was referring to when he said nothing:

His actual words were this:


We were very active in signing a couple players here, a couple players there during the time frame CP9 was talking about.

And as to the rest: you are a liar (let's just go with mistaken; no need to be ugly)  we did a lot this off season including replacing the entire coaching staff. We just did something last week, we replaced our starting QB. Will any of them pay off? Who knows, but to say we did nothing is a lie.

Signing players and signing roster fodder are two different things..... I'm jus sayin......

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-04-2019, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: During the offseason after the 2010 season when Palmer sat out and demanded a trade Mike Brown signed three new starters in free agency that helped improve our defense from 24th to 9th in scoring.

How the hell can anyone here defend Palmer for calling that "nothing"?

Who were they?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-04-2019, 04:18 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: They signed Newman in 2012. 

Palmer's demands happened before free agency, so he had been sitting out for about 3 months at that point. 

The "nothing" probably has more to do with who signed, not that no one was signed. 

In hindsight, it's easy to look back at how it turned out, but before the season in 2011, it was widely predicted that the Bengals wouldn't win a game. 

When Palmer sat out...did his salary essentially come off the books?

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2019, 04:18 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The "nothing" probably has more to do with who signed, not that no one was signed. 

And that is exactly why QBs should not be allowed to tell the front office "I'll quit if you don't sign WHO I WANT!"

Bengals signed three new starters for the defense and it went from 24th to 9th in scoring.  There is no telling who Palmer wanted.  Remember that he thought the Raiders were doing what it took to build a winner but they only won 26 games over the next five years while the Bengals won 52.

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2019, 04:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Who were they?

CB Nate Clements, former Pro Bowler and at one time the highest paid defensive player in the entire league.  he was getting some age on him  (32) but was still plaing well (82 tkls, 3 ints, 3FF in 2010)

LB Manny Lawson, only 27, a former first round pick who had been a starter every year since his rookie season.

LB Thomas Howard, only 28, another former first round pick with 62 career starts, 390 tkls, 7 ints (2 for td), 25 PD, and 28 TFL.

Not a bunch of big stars, but solid players that fit what we needed.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-04-2019, 04:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: CB Nate Clements, former Pro Bowler and at one time the highest paid defensive player in the entire league.  he was getting some age on him  (32) but was still plaing well (82 tkls, 3 ints, 3FF in 2010)

Nate Clements was signed because the front office failed to re-sign Jonathan Joseph.  JJ was the better player.  I'm not going to pat the front office on the back because that got worse at the CB position.  The Bengals immediately drafted his replacement in Dre Kirkpatrick during the next draft.  Lost his CB spot to 34 y/o Terence Newman during second season.

Quote:LB Manny Lawson, only 27, a former first round pick who had been a starter every year since his rookie season.

Another 1st round disappointment as a 3-4 OLB pass rush specialist the Bengals misused as a 4-3 SAM to stop the run that failed to live up to expectations in Cincinnati, also.

Quote:LB Thomas Howard, only 28, another former first round pick with 62 career starts, 390 tkls, 7 ints (2 for td), 25 PD, and 28 TFL.

The rare good signing.  He had one good season before his time in Cincy was cut short by injury.

Quote:Not a bunch of big stars, but solid players that fit what we needed.

So worse at one CB position, better at one LB position, about the same at another LB position. So overall that's just about the same.

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2019, 05:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So worse at one CB position, better at one LB position, about the same at another LB position. So overall that's just about the same.

Then why did we improve from 24th scoring defense to #9?

[Bengalholic]

(11-04-2019, 05:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why did we improve from 24th scoring defense to #9?

They had a rough year defensively in 2010, but the prior year, they had the #4 defense in the NFL (6th in points) and the year after signing those 3 FA's (when Howard missed 15 games and Lawson had far less snaps) the defense was even better, ranking 6th overall and 8th in points, than the first year with them. While both were solid in their first year, I think you may be overvaluing their overall impact just a bit.

Howard and Lawson, in particular, were very Bengal-esque signings...and it's how the Bengals have almost always approached free agency (bargains and discounts) with few exceptions.

Howard had lost his starting job with the Raiders going into 2010, getting demoted to spending the year on special teams. That really hurt his negotiating power in free agency, which helped the Bengals land him on a 2 yr - 6.5m deal. 

Lawson didn't quite get the interest he expected in free agency and settled on a 1 year deal with the Bengals. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-04-2019, 05:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why did we improve from 24th scoring defense to #9?

I'd say it had more to do with Geno Atkins starting 15 games in 2011 instead of 1 game in 2010 and improving the overall play of the defensive line than Manny Lawson's play.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-04-2019, 06:08 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They had a rough year defensively in 2010, but the prior year, they had the #4 defense in the NFL (6th in points) and the year after signing those 3 FA's (when Howard missed 15 games and Lawson had far less snaps) the defense was even better, ranking 6th overall and 8th in points, than the first year with them. While both were solid in their first year, I think you may be overvaluing their overall impact just a bit.

Howard and Lawson, in particular, were very Bengal-esque signings...and it's how the Bengals have almost always approached free agency (bargains and discounts) with few exceptions.

Howard had lost his starting job with the Raiders going into 2010, getting demoted to spending the year on special teams. That really hurt his negotiating power in free agency, which helped the Bengals land him on a 2 yr - 6.5m deal. 

Lawson didn't quite get the interest he expected in free agency and settled on a 1 year deal with the Bengals. 

I think Howard’s drop in production was because Oakland had switched to a 3-4 and Howard wasn’t a good fit which was why he was available to the Bengals. In my opinion, he was an upgrade over Keith Rivers. Clements was a down grade from JJ. Manny Lawson was maybe adequate in the run game, but wasn’t good at rushing the passer, and a liability in pass coverage.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-02-2019, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Off the top of my head we signed Pacman Jones, Antonio Bryant, Gibril Wilson, and Terrel Owens that off season.

Carson Palmer is a punk. 

By my count, that's 2 players who came at a steep discount due to issues. 1 guy who we just gave TJ's contract to, and 1 guy who is/was irrelevant. When your best off-season add is a Pacman Jones the rest of the league wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, I guess I can see where CP is coming from.

[Shake n Blake]

I love how we have a guy claiming he's not defending the front office, but then he spends 12 pages defending the front office.

[Bengalholic]

(11-04-2019, 06:39 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think Howard’s drop in production was because Oakland had switched to a 3-4 and Howard wasn’t a good fit which was why he was available to the Bengals. In my opinion, he was an upgrade over Keith Rivers. Clements was a down grade from JJ. Manny Lawson was maybe adequate in the run game, but wasn’t good at rushing the passer, and a liability in pass coverage.

Coverage was Lawson's signature asset as a 49er.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-04-2019, 04:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When Palmer sat out...did his salary essentially come off the books?

Nah

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-04-2019, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And that is exactly why QBs should not be allowed to tell the front office "I'll quit if you don't sign WHO I WANT!"

Bengals signed three new starters for the defense and it went from 24th to 9th in scoring.  There is no telling who Palmer wanted.  Remember that he thought the Raiders were doing what it took to build a winner but they only won 26 games over the next five years while the Bengals won 52.

True. But the only outside FAs they signed in 2011 were Howard and Lawson. TNew didn't come till the next year. 

You have to put yourself back in that time frame. Things looked a lot different then, than they do now, looking back. 

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2019, 07:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: True. But the only outside FAs they signed in 2011 were Howard and Lawson. TNew didn't come till the next year. 

They signed Nate Clements who was coming off a solid season in 2010 (82 tkls, 3 ints, 3FF)