What changed in the running game

[depthchart]

(12-13-2019, 12:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Here...the improvement is we're not on historically bad rushing pace any more! Yay!

No  -  The improvement is Top 10 in the NFL in rushing over the last 5 games.

The Coaching Staff moved the needle in one aspect of the game by learning and changing.

This implies that they could possibly move other needles in other areas of the game over time while riding the Learning Curve.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2019, 12:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You can look at teams like the Cardinals with an inexperience HC in Kingsbury who came in and visibly improve their entire offensive ranking.

Here...the improvement is we're not on historically bad rushing pace any more! Yay! 

So Kingsbury (with the help of a health first round pick who has played this year) has produced the 24th ranked offense in the league.  Yay!

I guess we just ignore that he has made the defense much worse, right?

Got to spin like crazy to shit on the Bengals.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2019, 12:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Basically ALL of the bad teams are playing better at the end of the year. And guess what, a lot of the good teams are too. Teams generally get better!

It is impossible for all teams to get better.  For every rush offense that improves a rush defense gets worse.  For every team that wins more another team has to win less.

I realize you are getting desperate as the Bengals improve, but this is a silly claim even for you.

[J24]

(12-13-2019, 12:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And the running scheme change turned it around BEFORE Glenn was back...and I haven't seen Boling out there this year. It's not like he returned.

Glenn was hurt last year too.

This team is just horribly coached. You guys are straining for positives.

The rushing offense was on historically bad pace for 8 games. Mixon knows. He gave Pollack a gameball after the Jets game.

Glenn missed 3 games last season compared to 10.
The offense and defense are playing better outside of the last Baltimore guy. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-13-2019, 10:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: If you have the athletic this is a really interesting story.

https://theathletic.com/1456903/2019/12/12/how-the-bengals-turned-a-historically-inept-run-game-into-a-strength/

If not I'll essentially explain the overarching message. Basically the they went from being one of the worst rushing teams in the first seven games to one of the best the last six games. They are top 10 in yards per carry, total rushing, most explosive runs, and fewest negative runs in that time. The reason is they scraped the old running scheme and quit trying to be he Rams and went with a Pin and Pull concept. They also added in a toss for Mixon over handing the ball off as much.

Now what is interesting to this, and what gives me optimism about the coaching staff, is it was a group effort rebuilding the running game. Turner brought the Pin and Pull and Van Pelt threw out the idea of tosses from his time with Eddie Lacey in Green Bay. I think the fact in a week they successfully rebuilt the running game says a lot about the guys on the staff. I keep seeing people say fire Turner but Turner's new scheme essentially saved the running game, which makes the idea kind of funny.

Personally, I noticed the Pin and Pull a while back but the toss piece hadn't really hit me. It really is a good scheme to get Mixon the ball in space and then let him have more room to see lanes and accelerate.

Great stuff Au165, this does give me some hope with the coaching staff and specifically Turner for changing it up and 
running different concepts since what they were doing wasn't working. Thanks for this as it makes me feel much better
about keeping Turner which seems like it is going to be the case. Adding Jonah next year should also really help.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-13-2019, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is impossible for all teams to get better.  For every rush offense that improves a rush defense gets worse.  For every team that wins more another team has to win less.

I realize you are getting desperate as the Bengals improve, but this is a silly claim even for you.

We're 1-12. 1-12!

Keep telling me about this improvement! Maybe we'll finish the year with 2 wins!

Maybe Zac will be Coach of the Year!

[Fullrock]

(12-13-2019, 04:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're 1-12. 1-12!

Keep telling me about this improvement! Maybe we'll finish the year with 2 wins!

Maybe Zac will be Coach of the Year!

Curious. What was your win expectation before the season?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-13-2019, 04:34 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Curious. What was your win expectation before the season?

Well, we won 6 games last year with a roster that was largely depleted from injuries with Dalton missing what half the year and basically went status quo so I'd say 6-8 wins. Maybe 9 at best.

But, we have a terrible coaching staff who calls plays that result in a 2 yard throw on 3rd and 10. And a defense that gives up 21 yard throws on 3rd and 19.

What was yours?

[*Synric*]

(12-13-2019, 04:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're 1-12. 1-12!

Keep telling me about this improvement! Maybe we'll finish the year with 2 wins!

Maybe Zac will be Coach of the Year!

Stop.  We all know 1-12 this isnt news you don't have to push that down our throat in every single thread.

We are talking about the run game changes how it changed from the outside zone to an inside zone/pin and pull on the outside. How it helped maximize the athleticism of guys like Michael Jordan and Trey Hopkins. How it cut down on the reads for Joe Mixon and what that did for him.

We are talking about football. You should listen you might learn something.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-13-2019, 05:26 PM)Synric Wrote: Stop.  We all know 1-12 this isnt news you don't have to push that down our throat in every single thread.

We are talking about the run game changes how it changed from the outside zone to an inside zone/pin and pull on the outside. How it helped maximize the athleticism of guys like Michael Jordan and Trey Hopkins. How it cut down on the reads for Joe Mixon and what that did for him.

We are talking about football. You should listen you might learn something.

We might just have the best coaching staff in the history of the NFL to coach a 1-12 team! Coach of the year to Taylor!

These guys need fired...not applauded.

[Fullrock]

(12-13-2019, 05:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we won 6 games last year with a roster that was largely depleted from injuries with Dalton missing what half the year and basically went status quo so I'd say 6-8 wins. Maybe 9 at best.

But, we have a terrible coaching staff who calls plays that result in a 2 yard throw on 3rd and 10. And a defense that gives up 21 yard throws on 3rd and 19.

What was yours?

I said CEILING was 6 wins.

You understand that it's not a "play call" that results in a 2 yard throw on 3rd and 10, right??

[THE PISTONS]

(12-13-2019, 05:44 PM)Fullrock Wrote: I said CEILING was 6 wins.

You understand that it's not a "play call" that results in a 2 yard throw on 3rd and 10, right??

So you think our 9 year veteran QB just stopped being able to play QB and our offensive line is just laying on their backs after 1 second EVERY play?

Go ahead, tell me how the line is bad in a thread praising the line for run blocking.

[THE PISTONS]

Here's some subtle drama for the Bengals entering the final three weeks of the season.

At 1-12, the Bengals need a victory to avoid their undisputed worst season in franchise history. Have never had fewer than two wins in a season.

— Santa Baby (@Ben_Baby) December 13, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[*Synric*]

(12-13-2019, 05:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We might just have the best coaching staff in the history of the NFL to coach a 1-12 team! Coach of the year to Taylor!

These guys need fired...not applauded.

We get it you have no idea what we are talking about.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-13-2019, 05:26 PM)Synric Wrote: Stop.  We all know 1-12 this isnt news you don't have to push that down our throat in every single thread.

We are talking about the run game changes how it changed from the outside zone to an inside zone/pin and pull on the outside. How it helped maximize the athleticism of guys like Michael Jordan and Trey Hopkins. How it cut down on the reads for Joe Mixon and what that did for him.

We are talking about football. You should listen you might learn something.

Thank you, I find this thread refreshing until I read Pistons posts. Just the same thing over and over, just cause we see 
something positive to take from the team doesn't mean we are happy with being 1-12 for heck sake.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2019, 04:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're 1-12. 1-12!

Keep telling me about this improvement! 

Kingsbury has the exact same number of victories that the Cards had last year and you praise him for his "improvements on offense".

You spin so much you can't keep your story straight.

If you don't think it means anything to go from one of the worst run games in history to top ten in the league then you know nothing about football.

[MEBengalsFan]

(12-13-2019, 11:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, the article goes on to say they eventually figured out they didn't have the personnel to make the outside zone work and eventually had to just scrap trying it for something that allowed them to use what their guys had and that was athleticism to pull.

They really didn't have the guys needed when they were hired, after the draft, after the OL got the injury bug, etc... great coaches adjust the scheme to fit the player, not try to plug players into a scheme that just doesn't work. 

A full off season should help the team with next year as they will have the time to evaluate the current roster, FA players and college player entering the draft.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-13-2019, 12:17 PM)depthchart Wrote: But does it not show that this young Head Coach and fairly inexperienced Staff can possibly Learn as they go, gain experience, change and grow over time ? 

No! That is not acceptable! 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-13-2019, 01:04 PM)Fullrock Wrote: If you don't think it's a positive that the staff was able to change the run blocking scheme DURING the season to completely turn around a historically bad first half of the season run game, then you're just being stubborn. I don't think anyone has said this staff has proven themselves to be good, but give credit where credit is due.

Also, the defense has seen a big improvement after the bye week. Anarumo and the defensive staff deserve some credit for that. It also helps when you can keep the other team's offense off the field with an effective running game.

There is plenty of criticism to go around on this coaching staff, which will always be the case on a football team that's 1-12, but refusal to acknowledge any positives is just silly. It wouldn't fit your agenda though. 

Exactly. I seem to remember something very similar happening 2 years ago with our run under Marvin, Zampese to Lazor, and Paul Alexander. That narrative won't fit in "Bash the coaches EVERY SINGLE THREAD Noise" that Jungle Noise has devolved into.....

[Fullrock]

(12-13-2019, 05:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you think our 9 year veteran QB just stopped being able to play QB and our offensive line is just laying on their backs after 1 second EVERY play?

Go ahead, tell me how the line is bad in a thread praising the line for run blocking.

It's a QB read.  Good Lord man, you are really starting to show how little you know about football. 

If a,QB throws the ball 2 yards on 3rd and 10, that's his decision and where his read takes him. And yes, Dalton panics a lot and gets rid of the ball before he has to a lot of times in those situations. No one designs a 3rd and 10 play to be a 2 yard pass. Many times there are 4 or 5 guys running routes in those 3rd and longs.